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Author Topic: Power cut important clarification required  (Read 10844 times)

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2018, 02:48:00 PM »
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Point is, if the power had been out and Officer Baker knew he was chasing a killer/shooter, (which he did because he had his gun out), there is No Way he enters into and attempts to navigate his way through a Pitch Black stairwell he has Never been inside previously.
Yeah, either/both would have mentioned this alleged Black Out situation when they told the WC their story.

So you are saying the power was not out since we know Baker and Truly did go up the stairs?  I think they would have gone up anyway, but we are in agreement that the power was not out which is the point under consideration here.

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2018, 02:48:00 PM »

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2018, 03:49:19 PM »
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So you are saying the power was not out since we know Baker and Truly did go up the stairs?  I think they would have gone up anyway, but we are in agreement that the power was not out which is the point under consideration here.

Yeah. I believe the power was On because: (1) Baker and Truly made No Mention of having to navigate a Pitch Black stairway in their WC Testimony, (2) Officer Baker would Not have entered a Pitch Black Stairway he had Never used before, & (3) Truly was ahead of Baker leading him Up the stairwell. How would Baker have been able to See/Follow Truly in a Pitch Black Stairwell? 

Offline Michael O'Brian

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2018, 04:41:13 PM »
Mr. BALL - Which elevator did you get on?
Mr. MOONEY - It was the one nearest to the staircase, on the northwest corner of the building.
Mr. BALL - There are two elevators there?
Mr. MOONEY - I found that out later. I didn't know it at that time.
Mr. BALL - You took the west one, or the east one?
Mr. MOONEY - I would say it was the west elevator, the one nearest to the staircase.
Mr. BALL - Did it work with a push button?
Mr. MOONEY - It was a push button affair the best I can remember. got hold of the controls and it worked. We started up and got to the second. I was going to let them off and go on up. And when we got there, the power undoubtedly cut off, because we had no more power on the elevator. So I looked around their office there, just a short second or two, and then I went up the staircase myself. And I met some other officers coming down, plainclothes, and I believe they were deputy sheriffs. They were coming down the staircase. But I kept going up. And how come I get off the sixth floor, I don't know yet. But, anyway, I stopped on six, and didn't even know what floor I was on.
Mr. BALL - You were alone?
Mr. MOONEY - I was alone at that time.
Mr. BALL - Was there any reason for you to go to the sixth floor?
Mr. MOONEY - No, sir. That is what I say. I don't know why. I just stopped on that particular floor. I thought I was pretty close to the top.
Mr. BALL - Were there any other officers on the floor?

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2018, 04:41:13 PM »

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2018, 05:17:56 PM »
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Mr. BALL - Which elevator did you get on?
Mr. MOONEY - It was the one nearest to the staircase, on the northwest corner of the building.
Mr. BALL - There are two elevators there?
Mr. MOONEY - I found that out later. I didn't know it at that time.
Mr. BALL - You took the west one, or the east one?
Mr. MOONEY - I would say it was the west elevator, the one nearest to the staircase.
Mr. BALL - Did it work with a push button?
Mr. MOONEY - It was a push button affair the best I can remember. got hold of the controls and it worked. We started up and got to the second. I was going to let them off and go on up. And when we got there, the power undoubtedly cut off, because we had no more power on the elevator. So I looked around their office there, just a short second or two, and then I went up the staircase myself. And I met some other officers coming down, plainclothes, and I believe they were deputy sheriffs. They were coming down the staircase. But I kept going up. And how come I get off the sixth floor, I don't know yet. But, anyway, I stopped on six, and didn't even know what floor I was on.
Mr. BALL - You were alone?
Mr. MOONEY - I was alone at that time.
Mr. BALL - Was there any reason for you to go to the sixth floor?
Mr. MOONEY - No, sir. That is what I say. I don't know why. I just stopped on that particular floor. I thought I was pretty close to the top.
Mr. BALL - Were there any other officers on the floor?

Time stamping what you have supplied above would be beneficial. The discussion previously was centered around the Geneva Hine WC Testimony. In that testimony she was referring to a time period when the JFK Limo approached the TSBD and passed by. Baker and Truly going Up the stairwell was roughly 1 minute following the Kill Shot. What you have proffered above occurred at some point several minutes after Hine's recollections, as well as the Baker/Truly Up-The-Stairwell Escapade.

Offline Anthony Clayden

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2018, 09:28:49 PM »
As to Hine's comment about the phones going dead, it is possible that she said it as part of her excuse\reason for leaving her desk to look at the parade. Doesn't even have to be a lie as such, someone wanting to do something (look at the parade) can convince themselves\justify their actions, the lines may have gone quiet for a few seconds and she in her own mind reasoned they had all gone quiet, so she could leave her desk.

Mooney's testimony is far more challenging, it would appear to effecting the lifts only, and for a short period of time, as they were operated by quite a few others.

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2018, 09:28:49 PM »

Offline Michael O'Brian

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2018, 12:34:14 AM »
An informative article about this very important issue.
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Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2018, 01:26:12 AM »
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Equipment like lifts would have their own circuit breakers. No problem cutting out just the lifts. I would assume motors in top of lift shafts so breakers (and fuses) could be on 7th floor (the pipes in the SE corner routed power to the upper floors as I recall).

No one else indicated any problem with the elevators that day.  And there are specific examples of folks like Baker and Truly taking the freight elevator from the 5th to the 7th floor and Sawyer taking the front elevator without issue a few minutes after the assassination.  There is no problem cutting the power to the lifts?  Well, you would have to have someone do it.  Presumably from within the building.  That adds another person to the conspiracy in the TSBD.  A pretty big risk. They would have to somehow know when to do it.  How do they coordinate that?  And lastly - why bother cutting the power at all for a few minutes or seconds?  The purpose is unclear.

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2018, 01:26:12 AM »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2018, 09:27:01 AM »
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BTW, my comment was purely technical, but can you name a TSBD witness who said they experienced an intermittent problem with the freight elevators on other occasions?



The elevators had certain quirks if you weren't familiar.
Truly knew both elevators were up on the the fifth floor but couldn't use either because each elevator had a strict procedure before they would operate.

Mr. BELIN. Now, you got to the elevator, and what did you do then?
Mr. TRULY. I looked up. This is two elevators in the same well. This elevator over here
Mr. BELIN. You are pointing to the west one?
Mr. TRULY. I am pointing to the west one. This elevator was on the fifth floor. Also, the east elevator-- as far as I can tell--both of them were on the fifth floor at that time.
This elevator will come down if the gates are down, and you push a button.
Representative FORD. Which elevator is that?
Mr. TRULY. The west one. But the east one will not come down unless you get on it and bring it down. You cannot call it if the gates are down.




JohnM
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 09:52:42 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2018, 09:27:01 AM »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2018, 09:59:07 AM »
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I was. That was by design. Thanks anyway.



Good for you. Yes they were designed differently. No problems.



JohnM


Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2018, 03:33:58 PM »
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...and Sawyer taking the front elevator without issue a few minutes after the assassination.

Different shaft; would work independently of freight elevators.

That adds another person to the conspiracy in the TSBD.  A pretty big risk

Not if he's already in.

The purpose is unclear

Think a little harder.

BTW, my comment was purely technical, but can you name a TSBD witness who said they experienced an intermittent problem with the freight elevators on other occasions?

Why do you ignore that Baker and Truly took the freight elevator by addressing the fact that Sawyer took the front elevator?  Sawyer's trip up and back down the front elevator is just another example that the power was on in the building.  Baker and Truly's trip demonstrates the same along with the fact that the freight elevator was working fine.  What is your time frame for when the freight elevator was not operational?  And why be coy and ask me for an explanation for why the power would be cut off to that elevator?  This is not my theory.  It sounds complicated and risky without any obvious benefit.  If you have some insight, let us know.

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Re: Power cut important clarification required
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2018, 03:33:58 PM »

 

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