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Author Topic: 11/22/63 Parkland Medical Reports, the Throat Wound, and the Large Head Wound  (Read 7168 times)

Offline Jerry Organ

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You must be joking. Have you ever actually watched the NOVA documentary from which the GIF was taken? Here is what Dr. McClelland says in the documentary as he starts to draw a diagram of the large head wound's location, before he views the autopsy photos:

And here is what Dr. McClelland says, and demonstrates, right after he has viewed the autopsy photos for NOVA:

You guys always quote the first part of his statement but omit the second part, the part where he says that the autopsy photos that he saw showed the same large head wound that he had described earlier.

Here is a screencap that shows Dr. McClelland demonstrating the wound's location while he is giving the above-quoted description:



While giving his description? Isn't there a voice-over being heard at the moment of your screen grab? Later on McClelland runs his fingers over that area of the head when discussing some scalp tears he theorized had fallen back to there.

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And here is the diagram (on the right) that Dr. McClellan approved for NOVA as a representation of the wound that he saw:



That drawing was published 11 years prior to the NOVA program in the book "Six Seconds in Dallas".

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You really need to do some homework and get a handle on the facts of the case, and stop just blindly defending the lone-gunman nonsense.

We're not the only ones that need to do some homework.

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Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Organ: That drawing was published 11 years prior to the NOVA program in the book "Six Seconds in Dallas".

Yes, Dr. McClelland's drawing of the large wound was done years before the NOVA documentary, but he approved the drawing for NOVA as an accurate representation of the wound that he saw. The NOVA narration states this. Did you miss this when you watched the documentary?

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Organ: Isn't there a voice-over being heard at the moment of your screen grab?

Yes, there's a voice-over, but I was only quoting what Dr. McClelland says in that segment, and he says that the photos he saw showed the large back-of-head wound that he had described earlier. You guys always omit that part and only quote the first part where he says he saw no discrepancy between the photos and the wound he saw at Parkland.

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Organ: Later on McClelland runs his fingers over that area of the head when discussing some scalp tears he theorized had fallen back to there.

Oh, gosh. This nonsense again? As you know, you are simply ignoring what McClelland himself says while he demonstrates the wound. Why can't you guys ever just admit plain fact? In the post-photo-viewing segment, McClelland says that the wound he saw in the autopsy photos was in the right-rear part of the head, that it was the same wound that he had described just before seeing the photos. Let's read what he says again, and he says this while he puts his hand on the right-rear part of this head:

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I find no discrepancy between the wounds as they are shown very vividly in these photographs and what I remember very vividly. There was a very large wound that I saw on the back of the head and the side of the head [holds hand on the right-rear part of his head] that I described earlier.

Why oh why do we have to go over this stuff again and again? Answer: Because you guys simply refuse to acknowledge facts that everyone can see and hear when McClelland describes and demonstrates the wound. One would think that at some point you guys would realize that you are embarrassing and discrediting yourselves with these pathetic evasions and denials.

McClelland described and demonstrated the same back-of-head wound that Nurse Henchliffe held a pressure dressing against, the wound that Nurse Bowron packed with gauze, the wound that Clint Hill saw for several minutes in two different locations, and the wound that the mortician filled with rubber to prepare the body for burial: the large wound in the back of the head, in the right occipital-parietal region, the wound that can be seen in its pre-skull-reconstruction form in autopsy photo F8.

I mean, for crying out loud, how can any honest, rational person believe that the mortician who handled the large head wound, cleaned it, reconstructed it, and packed the remaining part of it with rubber could "mistake" that wound for a wound that was above and forward of the right ear?! Even more surreal, how can anyone really believe that the nurse who cleaned the wound and packed it with gauze squares hours earlier made the same colossal blunder and mistook the wound for a wound that was 4-5 inches away on a different part of the head when she had the EOP and the right ear as reference points?


Demonstrations and diagrams of JFK's head wound:



« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 01:35:27 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Yes, Dr. McClelland's drawing of the large wound was done years before the NOVA documentary, but he approved the drawing for NOVA as an accurate representation of the wound that he saw. The NOVA narration states this. Did you miss this when you watched the documentary?
 

I (along with everyone else) missed the part where it was stated the drawing was "approved for NOVA". One might think McClelland somewhat "disapproved" of the drawing when, after viewing the autopsy photos, he said: "there doesn't appear to be any sort of wound in the area where I had drawn the picture that shows the large hole."

Incidentally, McClelland is a little loose with the notion he drew the picture; it was Tink.

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Yes, there's a voice-over, but I was only quoting what Dr. McClelland says in that segment, and he says that the photos he saw showed the large back-of-head wound that he had described earlier. You guys always omit that part and only quote the first part where he says he saw no discrepancy between the photos and the wound he saw at Parkland.

Isn't there something a little misleading when you insert "[holds hand on the right-rear part of his head]" within the McClelland quote when, in fact, his hand goes to his head AFTER the spoken quote was finished and during a voice-over?

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Oh, gosh. This nonsense again? As you know, you are simply ignoring what McClelland himself says while he demonstrates the wound. Why can't you guys ever just admit plain fact? In the post-photo-viewing segment, McClelland says that the wound he saw in the autopsy photos was in the right-rear part of the head, that it was the same wound that he had described just before seeing the photos. Let's read what he says again, and he says this while he puts his hand on the right-rear part of this head:
     
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I find no discrepancy between the wounds as they are shown very vividly in these photographs and what I remember very vividly. There was a very large wound that I saw on the back of the head and the side of the head [holds hand on the right-rear part of his head] that I described earlier.

You did it again. I guess you're not going to stop misleading readers on the McClelland quote.

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Why oh why do we have to go over this stuff again and again? Answer: Because you guys simply refuse to acknowledge facts that everyone can see and hear when McClelland describes and demonstrates the wound. One would think that at some point you guys would realize that you are embarrassing and discrediting yourselves with these pathetic evasions and denials.

When are you going to address this?:

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe the condition of the back of the
     President's head ?
Dr. McCLELLAND. Well, partially; not, of course, as I say, we did
     not lift his head up since it was so greatly damaged. We
     attempted to avoid moving him any more than it was absolutely
     necessary, but I could see, of course, all the extent of the wound.

McClelland seems to say he could not see the very rear of the President's head.

    "That there was not only a horrible gaping wound but that it was
     a cavity that extended down into the head. And as I stood there
     holding the retractor, I was looking down into it all the time. I was
     no more than eighteen inches away from the wound all the time,
     standing just above it, which was ten to fifteen minutes at least."
          -- Robert McClelland, 1991

How can McClelland be "looking down" into a gaping wound at the back of the head if he's "standing just above it" such that he could see it "extended down into the head"? The President's head would have to be turned so that the back of the head was upright.

    "He was in terrible shape; the right side of his brain had been
     blown out."
          -- Robert McClelland, 1993



Quote
McClelland described and demonstrated the same back-of-head wound that Nurse Henchliffe held a pressure dressing against, the wound that Nurse Bowron packed with gauze, the wound that Clint Hill saw for several minutes in two different locations, and the wound that the mortician filled with rubber to prepare the body for burial: the large wound in the back of the head, in the right occipital-parietal region, the wound that can be seen in its pre-skull-reconstruction form in autopsy photo F8.



     "I could see the back of his head and there was a gaping
      hole above his right ear about the size of my palm."
           -- Clint Hill
              Inside the U.S. Secret Service
              National Geographic
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 12:38:02 AM by Jerry Organ »

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Offline Michael T. Griffith

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First, regarding Jerry Organ's reply about McClelland's NOVA comments, rather than waste time answering Organ's repeated lies, evasions, and false denials, I just invite you to go watch the segment for yourselves, and you will see that McClelland said exactly what I quoted him as saying, and that he did in fact put his hand over the right-rear part of his head both times.

You will also see that the NOVA narrator did in fact say that McClelland approved the drawing of the back of the head that they showed next to a back-of-head autopsy photo rendition and by itself, i.e., the drawing that McClelland himself had drawn years earlier that shows a right-rear wound. You will hear the narrator say, "The drawing was approved by Dr. McClelland" (46:21 to 46:25 in the documentary). Pull up the documentary on YouTube, fast-forward to 46:21, and you will hear the narrator say these words.

In fact, a few minutes later, the narrator makes the rather amazing statement that the McClelland drawing shows the wound that the doctors "and NOVA" saw in some of the autopsy photos! I quote:

Quote
The drawing suggests what many of the photos examined by the doctors and by NOVA show: a large wound about this size and location. (51:14 to 51:21 in the documentary)

The narrator then goes on to note the contradiction between McClelland's drawing and the artist rendition of a back-of-the-head autopsy photo that shows no damage to the occiput and no damage to the right-rear parietal area.

I might add that when McClelland testified before the WC and the ARRB, he said that the large head wound was in the right-rear part of the head, and he said the same thing at every recorded public appearance whenever he talked about the wound's location.

As for the Clint Hill video clip in Organ's post, which was filmed many years after the fact, I will simply note that Hill's description of the wound in the video is very different from the description he gave in his official report and in his WC testimony. I'll take his original report and WC testimony over his decades-later change of story. I could also show you a video clip made a few years earlier than the one Organ shows in which Hill said the head blew off "the back" of JFK's head. Hill's official report and WC testimony say nothing about any damage to the top or side of the head, not one word.

Before moving on to the main subject of this post, let it be noted that autopsy photo F8 shows a large occipital wound, that OD scans of the autopsy skull x-rays prove that a substantial amount of occipital bone was blown away, and that new research on the Harper fragment has firmly established that it is occipital bone.


Now to the main subject of this post: the 11/22/63 medical report of Parkland Hospital’s neurosurgeon, Dr. Kemp Clark. It should be noted that his report says the same thing about the large head wound that he said in a press conference earlier that day.

At 3:30 PM, three hours after the assassination, Dr. Clark and Dr. Malcolm Perry held a telephonic press conference for local reporters who had been unable to attend the official press conference. One of the local reporters on the line was Connie Kritzberg of the Dallas Times-Herald. The next day, 11/23/, her article on the teleconference was published. She reported that Dr. Clark said the large head wound was in “the right-rear side of the head” and added that the throat wound was described as “an entrance wound”:


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Wounds in the lower front portion of the neck and the right rear side of the head ended the life of President John F. Kennedy, say doctors at Parkland Hospital. . . .

The front neck hole was described as an entrance wound. . . .

Dr. Clark said the President's principal wound was on the right rear side of his head. (https://archive.org/stream/nsia-KritzbergConnie/nsia-KritzbergConnie/Kritzberg%20Connie%2001_djvu.txt)

A few months later, Dr. Clark told the Warren Commission (WC) that he had “examined” the wound “in the back of the President’s head,” that it was in the “right posterior part” of the head, and that cerebellar and cerebral brain tissue was exposed in the wound:

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I then examined the wound in the back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed. (6 H 20)

So the hospital’s neurosurgeon “examined” the large head wound and reported that it was in the “right posterior” part of the head, and also noted that he could see cerebellar tissue in the wound. Any first-year medical student knows that cerebellar tissue looks very different than other brain tissue, and that cerebellar tissue is located only in the back of the head.

There is a Parkland witness whom I have not yet mentioned: Al (Aubrey) Rike. Rike worked for O'Neal's Funeral Home and helped load JFK's body into the casket at Parkland Hospital after the head and body had been wrapped in sheets. He reported that while he had his hand on the back of JFK's head ("had my hand behind his head"), he could feel the edges of a wound and could feel brain tissue in the wound. I quote from his recorded interview with David Lifton:

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When we picked him up, you could feel the mushy part of the brain and the brain, the bone was kind of putting enough pressure on my hand that you knew that there was a jagged portion of it, but it wasn't cutting my hand or anything, but you could still feel that through the sheets, as I was raising the head up and had my hand behind his head.

So we have yet another witness who handled the wound and who noted that it was in the back of the head.

« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 01:38:13 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Michael Walton

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Here is an illustration of two autopsy photos being combined. Though made for illustrative purposes only, it does appear to be somewhat accurate because you can clearly see the reflected scalp with the bullet hole in it. The autopsy states that a rear head shot was documented. The image is a GIF and may take a moment to load as it's a large file:


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Offline Bill Chapman

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Here is an illustration of two autopsy photos being combined. Though made for illustrative purposes only, it does appear to be somewhat accurate because you can clearly see the reflected scalp with the bullet hole in it. The autopsy states that a rear head shot was documented. The image is a GIF and may take a moment to load as it's a large file:



What frontal shot?
Can you attach a bullet, rifle and culprit to such a shot?

And your 'bevelling' fails the Blob#Gate test.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 04:06:06 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline John Tonkovich

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Mr. Griffith:  three shots. From the rear. Three hits. Might want to examine the evidence.

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Offline Jerry Organ

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First, regarding Jerry Organ's reply about McClelland's NOVA comments, rather than waste time answering Organ's repeated lies, evasions, and false denials, I just invite you to go watch the segment for yourselves, and you will see that McClelland said exactly what I quoted him as saying, and that he did in fact put his hand over the right-rear part of his head both times.

You will also see that the NOVA narrator did in fact say that McClelland approved the drawing of the back of the head that they showed next to a back-of-head autopsy photo rendition and by itself, i.e., the drawing that McClelland himself had drawn years earlier that shows a right-rear wound. You will hear the narrator say, "The drawing was approved by Dr. McClelland" (46:21 to 46:25 in the documentary). Pull up the documentary on YouTube, fast-forward to 46:21, and you will hear the narrator say these words.

I'm evasive? Here's what Griffith was responding to:

    "I (along with everyone else) missed the part where it was
     stated the drawing was "approved for NOVA".

"Approved for NOVA" is what Griffith placed on his screen capture. And, of course, he could find no claim made by NOVA or Dr. McClelland. In isolation, it doesn't matter much, just an illustration of Griffith's playing loose with the facts.

Quote
In fact, a few minutes later, the narrator makes the rather amazing statement that the McClelland drawing shows the wound that the doctors "and NOVA" saw in some of the autopsy photos! I quote:

"The drawing suggests" doesn't sound too definitive. And all the Parkland doctors, prior to viewing, have their hands much higher up towards the top of the head than the wound location depicted in the drawing.

Quote
The narrator then goes on to note the contradiction between McClelland's drawing and the artist rendition of a back-of-the-head autopsy photo that shows no damage to the occiput and no damage to the right-rear parietal area.

The sequence that ends with Dr. McClelland saying:

    "There doesn't seem to be any sort of wound in the area
     where I had drawn the picture that showed this large hole."

Earlier in the program, McClelland said the autopsy photos accurately showed what he had seen in 1963.

Quote
I might add that when McClelland testified before the WC and the ARRB, he said that the large head wound was in the right-rear part of the head, and he said the same thing at every recorded public appearance whenever he talked about the wound's location.

That's your answer to this ...

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe the condition of the back of the
     President's head ?
Dr. McCLELLAND. Well, partially; not, of course, as I say, we did
     not lift his head up since it was so greatly damaged. We
     attempted to avoid moving him any more than it was absolutely
     necessary, but I could see, of course, all the extent of the wound.

McClelland seems to say he could not see the very rear of the President's head.

    "That there was not only a horrible gaping wound but that it was
     a cavity that extended down into the head. And as I stood there
     holding the retractor, I was looking down into it all the time. I was
     no more than eighteen inches away from the wound all the time,
     standing just above it, which was ten to fifteen minutes at least."
          -- Robert McClelland, 1991

How can McClelland be "looking down" into a gaping wound at the back of the head if he's "standing just above it" such that he could see it "extended down into the head"? The President's head would have to be turned so that the back of the head was upright.

    "He was in terrible shape; the right side of his brain had been
     blown out."
          -- Robert McClelland, 1993

Quote
As for the Clint Hill video clip in Organ's post, which was filmed many years after the fact,

Wow. But it's OK to to believe outlandish tales from particular witnesses who appeared before the ARRB, who made few if any notes or took any photographs, many years after the event, after they had been influenced by conspiracy advocates? Even the ARRB made note of the problem:

    "Finally, a significant problem that is well known to trial lawyers, judges,
     and psychologists, is the unreliability of eyewitness testimony. Witnesses
     frequently, and inaccurately, believe that they have a vivid recollection of
     events. Psychologists and scholars have long-since demonstrated the
     serious unreliability of people's recollections of what they hear and see.
     One illustration of this was an interview statement made by one of the
     treating physicians at Parkland. He explained that he was in Trauma
     Room Number 1 with the President. He recounted how he observed the
     First Lady wearing a white dress. Of course, she was wearing a pink suit,
     a fact known to most Americans. The inaccuracy of his recollection
     probably says little about the quality of the doctor's memory, but it is
     revealing of how the memory works and how cautious one must be when
     attempting to evaluate eyewitness testimony.

     The deposition transcripts and other medical evidence that were released
     by the Review Board should be evaluated cautiously by the public. Often
     the witnesses contradict not only each other, but sometimes themselves.
     For events that transpired almost 35 years ago, all persons are likely to
     have failures of memory. It would be more prudent to weigh all of the
     evidence, with due concern for human error, rather than take single
     statements as "proof" for one theory or another."

Quote
I will simply note that Hill's description of the wound in the video is very different from the description he gave in his official report and in his WC testimony. I'll take his original report and WC testimony over his decades-later change of story. I could also show you a video clip made a few years earlier than the one Organ shows in which Hill said the head blew off "the back" of JFK's head. Hill's official report and WC testimony say nothing about any damage to the top or side of the head, not one word.

Official report:

    "As I lay over the top of the back seat I noticed a portion of the President's
     head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely.
     ...
     I observed another wound on the right rear portion of the skull."

Testimony:

    "The right rear portion of his head was missing.
      ...
     the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head"

Hill uses the term "right rear" in the clip:

  Not a valid vimeo URL
On the day of the assassination, Abraham Zapruder
demonstrated something similar to Clint Hill's clip.
Quote

Before moving on to the main subject of this post, let it be noted that autopsy photo F8 shows a large occipital wound, that OD scans of the autopsy skull x-rays prove that a substantial amount of occipital bone was blown away, and that new research on the Harper fragment has firmly established that it is occipital bone.


Are others allowed to disagree?



Quote
Now to the main subject of this post: the 11/22/63 medical report of Parkland Hospital’s neurosurgeon, Dr. Kemp Clark. It should be noted that his report says the same thing about the large head wound that he said in a press conference earlier that day.

At 3:30 PM, three hours after the assassination, Dr. Clark and Dr. Malcolm Perry held a telephonic press conference for local reporters who had been unable to attend the official press conference. One of the local reporters on the line was Connie Kritzberg of the Dallas Times-Herald. The next day, 11/23/, her article on the teleconference was published. She reported that Dr. Clark said the large head wound was in “the right-rear side of the head” and added that the throat wound was described as “an entrance wound”:


A few months later, Dr. Clark told the Warren Commission (WC) that he had “examined” the wound “in the back of the President’s head,” that it was in the “right posterior part” of the head, and that cerebellar and cerebral brain tissue was exposed in the wound:

So the hospital’s neurosurgeon “examined” the large head wound and reported that it was in the “right posterior” part of the head, and also noted that he could see cerebellar tissue in the wound. Any first-year medical student knows that cerebellar tissue looks very different than other brain tissue, and that cerebellar tissue is located only in the back of the head.

Well the Parkland doctors who went to the National Archives thought they were mistaken about seeing cerebellum.

Dr. Robert Grossman, a neurosurgeon, was with Dr. Clark when they both examined the President's head. Grossman told the "Boston Globe" in 1981:

    "Then it was clear to me that the right parietal bone had been
     lifted up by a bullet which had exited.  That's the only thing
     that will do that, that the right parietal bone was elevated."

When shown the McClelland drawing, Grossman says:

    "I think this is too low ... it's in the wrong place."

Grossman's markings for the Globe:



Exit Wound
 


Entry Wound
(Only Parkland doctor to claim this)
 

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There is a Parkland witness whom I have not yet mentioned: Al (Aubrey) Rike. Rike worked for O'Neal's Funeral Home and helped load JFK's body into the casket at Parkland Hospital after the head and body had been wrapped in sheets. He reported that while he had his hand on the back of JFK's head ("had my hand behind his head"), he could feel the edges of a wound and could feel brain tissue in the wound. I quote from his recorded interview with David Lifton:

So we have yet another witness who handled the wound and who noted that it was in the back of the head.


Not a valid vimeo URL
It looks to me like Aubrey Rike thought the neck wound was behind the neck collar (that's where his finger first goes to). And that he felt a wound that was well outside the occipital bone area, above the ear level and somewhat on the right side.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 11:38:20 PM by Jerry Organ »