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Author Topic: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs  (Read 5585 times)

Offline Thomas Graves

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In no particular order:

The fact that the Stemmons sign obscured JFK and JBC from Zapruder's view while C399 was hitting both of them

The fact that Oswald missed the limo altogether with his first shot, but hit JFK on both of the following, farther-away shots

The fact that Dealey Plaza was a virtual echo chamber and caused many of the witnesses to mistake the number of shots and the number of seconds between them

The fact that JFK was sitting and wearing a tight and rigid corset which amplified his upper torso's "back and to the left" movement when the fatal bullet ripped through his brain (from behind) and caused a catastrophic neuromuscular reaction

The probable fact that the missed shot's hitting the traffic light mast arm caused the bullet to lose its copper jacket and therefore leave no traces of copper in the smear it left on the curb near James Tague

The fact that neither the Parkland nor the Bethesda doctors shaved the hair off of JFK's head to better reveal the nature of the fatal head wound

(Feel free to add to the list, all you reticent and not-so-reticent LNers out there)

--  MWT  ;)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 09:10:41 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Offline Dan O'meara

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In no particular order:

The fact that JFK was sitting and wearing a tight and rigid corset which amplified his upper torso's "back and to the left" movement when the fatal bullet ripped through his brain (from behind) and caused a catastrophic neuromuscular reaction

--  MWT  ;)

Sorry Thomas but this is by far the most tinfoil aspect of the Kennedy assassination. I strongly suspect that no right-minded person who saw Kennedy's reaction to the head-shot would assume the shot came from behind. I believe that, without exception, they would assume the shot came from the front. The eye-watering contortions of the Jet Effect are surely the envy of the most ardent tinfoil fashionistas.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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In no particular order:

The fact that the Stemmons sign obscured JFK and JBC from Zapruder's view while C399 was hitting both of them

The fact that Oswald missed the limo altogether with his first shot, but hit JFK on both of the following, farther-away shots

The fact that Dealey Plaza was a virtual echo chamber and caused many of the witnesses to mistake the number of shots and the number of seconds between them

The fact that JFK was sitting and wearing a tight and rigid corset which amplified his upper torso's "back and to the left" movement when the fatal bullet ripped through his brain (from behind) and caused a catastrophic neuromuscular reaction

The probable fact that the missed shot's hitting the traffic light mast arm caused the bullet to lose its copper jacket and therefore leave no traces of copper in the smear it left on the curb near James Tague

The fact that neither the Parkland nor the Bethesda doctors shaved the hair off of JFK's head to better reveal the nature of the fatal head wound

(Feel free to add to the list, all you reticent and not-so-reticent LNers out there)

--  MWT  ;)

The fact that the Stemmons sign obscured JFK and JBC from Zapruder's view while C399 was hitting both of them

Thomas, are you merely assuming that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 actually hit Kennedy and Connally or do you have actual evidence to support that statement?

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Offline Michael T. Griffith

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In no particular order:

The fact that the Stemmons sign obscured JFK and JBC from Zapruder's view while C399 was hitting both of them

The fact that Oswald missed the limo altogether with his first shot, but hit JFK on both of the following, farther-away shots

The fact that Dealey Plaza was a virtual echo chamber and caused many of the witnesses to mistake the number of shots and the number of seconds between them

The fact that JFK was sitting and wearing a tight and rigid corset which amplified his upper torso's "back and to the left" movement when the fatal bullet ripped through his brain (from behind) and caused a catastrophic neuromuscular reaction

The probable fact that the missed shot's hitting the traffic light mast arm caused the bullet to lose its copper jacket and therefore leave no traces of copper in the smear it left on the curb near James Tague

The fact that neither the Parkland nor the Bethesda doctors shaved the hair off of JFK's head to better reveal the nature of the fatal head wound.

Several of your "the fact that" statements are simply wrong. But, beyond the factual errors in your list, I find your posturing curious. You declare that people who believe Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy are tinfoil hatters. This is an interesting posture to assume given that you are in the decided minority of Americans who believe the lone-gunman theory. According to the most recent polling data we have on the subject, about 62% of Americans believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy, while about 34% do not, with about 4% undecided.

Furthermore, the last government investigation into the assassination, the House Select Committee on Assassinations, concluded that Kennedy was probably killed by a conspiracy, that there were four shots fired, that Jack Ruby had significant Mafia ties, that Ruby lied about his reason for shooting Oswald, that Ruby's shooting of Oswald resembled a Mafia hit to silence a witness or conspirator, that the WC ignored the clear weight of the evidence regarding how Ruby entered the DPD basement to shoot Oswald, that someone helped Ruby get into the DPD basement, that the DPD left doors unlocked along Ruby's route into the basement, that the DPD removed security from the area of the garage nearest the stairway that Ruby used to enter the basement shortly before Ruby entered the basement via that stairway, that someone was moving boxes in the sixth-floor window within 2 minutes after the shooting (obviously, it could not have been Oswald), that Silvia Odio's account of meeting with Oswald in company with two anti-Castro Cubans at a time when Oswald was supposedly in Mexico City is credible, that the committee established that Odio told several people about the Oswald visit before the assassination, etc., etc.

Finally, here is a very partial list of the "tinfoil hatted" public figures and experts who are on record as believing Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy:

* Dr. Joseph Dolce, an Army wound ballistics expert who played a leading role in the WC's wound ballistics tests.

* The late Senator Richard Schweiker.

* Senator Christopher Dodd, who served on the HSCA when he was a member of the House of Representatives.

* The late Senator Richard Russell, who served on the WC.

* Dr. Roger McCarthy, a ballistics expert with Failure Analysis, which assisted with the American Bar Association's mock Oswald trials in the 1990s.

* Robert MacNeil, formerly of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on PBS.

* Ambassador William Atwood, former Special Assistant to the U.S. delegation to the United Nations.

* President Lyndon Johnson. (We now know from the Johnson White House tapes that Johnson rejected the single-bullet theory. We also know from former Johnson aides and associates that privately Johnson said he believed Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy.)

* The late Dr. Milton Helpern, a renowned forensic pathologist and formerly the medical examiner for New York City.

* The late Dr. John Nichols, a forensic pathologist and formerly a professor of pathology at the University of Kansas.

* The late Carlos Hathcock, a Marine sniper who was widely regarded as the greatest sniper of the 20th century.

* The late Evelyn Lincoln, who was Kennedy's White House secretary.

* The late Dr. George Burkley, Kennedy's personal physician.

* Former Vice President Al Gore.

* Former Senator and Secretary of State John Kerry.

* Kennedy aides Dave Powers and Ken O'Donnell.

If anyone is wearing tinfoil hats, it is lone-gunman theorists.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 05:32:17 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Several of your "the fact that" statements are simply wrong. But, beyond the factual errors in your list, I find your posturing curious. You declare that people who believe Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy are tinfoil hatters. This is an interesting posture to assume given that you are in the decided minority of Americans who believe the lone-gunman theory. According to the most recent polling data we have on the subject, about 62% of Americans believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy, while about 34% do not, with about 4% undecided.

Furthermore, the last government investigation into the assassination, the House Select Committee on Assassinations, concluded that Kennedy was probably killed by a conspiracy, that there were four shots fired, that Jack Ruby had significant Mafia ties, that Ruby lied about his reason for shooting Oswald, that Ruby's shooting of Oswald resembled a Mafia hit to silence a witness or conspirator, that the WC ignored the clear weight of the evidence regarding how Ruby entered the DPD basement to shoot Oswald, that someone helped Ruby get into the DPD basement, that the DPD left doors unlocked along Ruby's route into the base, that the DPD removed security from the area of the garage nearest the stairway that Ruby used to enter the basement shortly before Ruby entered the basement via that stairway, that someone was moving boxes in the sixth-floor window within 2 minutes after the shooting (obviously, it could not have been Oswald), that Silvia Odio's account of meeting with Oswald in company with two anti-Castro Cubans at a time when Oswald was supposedly in Mexico City is credible, that the committee established that Odio told several people about the Oswald visit before the assassination, etc., etc.

Finally, here is a very partial list of the "tinfoil hatted" public figures and experts who are on record as believing Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy:

* Dr. Joseph Dolce, an Army wound ballistics expert who played a leading role in the WC's wound ballistics tests.

* The late Senator Richard Schweiker.

* Senator Christopher Dodd, who served on the HSCA when he was a member of the House of Representatives.

* The late Senator Richard Russell, who served on the WC.

* Dr. Roger McCarthy, a ballistics expert with Failure Analysis, which assisted with the American Bar Association's mock Oswald trials in the 1990s.

* Robert MacNeil, formerly of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on PBS.

* Ambassador William Atwood, former Special Assistant to the U.S. delegation to the United Nations.

* President Lyndon Johnson. (We now know from the Johnson White House tapes that Johnson rejected the single-bullet theory. We also know from former Johnson aides and associates that privately Johnson said he believed Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy.)

* The late Dr. Milton Helpern, a renowned forensic pathologist and formerly the medical examiner for New York City.

* The late Dr. John Nichols, a forensic pathologist and formerly a professor of pathology at the University of Kansas.

* The late Carlos Hathcock, a Marine sniper who was widely regarded as the greatest sniper of the 20th century.

* The late Evelyn Lincoln, who was Kennedy's White House secretary.

* The late Dr. George Burkley, Kennedy's personal physician.

* Former Vice President Al Gore.

* Former Senator and Secretary of State John Kerry.

* Kennedy aides Dave Powers and Ken O'Donnell.

If anyone is wearing tinfoil hats, it is lone-gunman theorists.

Your list is bogus.

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Offline Thomas Graves

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The fact that the Stemmons sign obscured JFK and JBC from Zapruder's view while C399 was hitting both of them

Thomas, are you merely assuming that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 actually hit Kennedy and Connally or do you have actual evidence to support that statement?

Based on the fact that the supersonic bullet wouldn't have slowed much percentage-wise while transiting JFK's body, that the bullet would have started tumbling upon exiting JFK's body, that no "intact" bullet was found inside the limo, and that JBC was sitting to the left of and lower than Kennedy, it's very reasonable to assume that both men were hit by C399.

The sign's being where it was is one of the unfortunate coincidences of the assassination which facilitated the promulgation of oodles and gobs of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories, imho.

-- MWT  ;)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 03:35:24 PM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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It's a very reasonable assumption, and the sign's being where it was is one of the unfortunate coincidences of the assassination which facilitated the promulgation of oodles and gobs of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories, imho.

-- MWT  ;)

My question was not about the sign!

So you base a crucial part of the case on an assumption, and then you use the term "tinfoil" for others who question the authenticity of the bullet now in evidence as CE399? Wow!

There is nothing reasonable about the assumption that CE399 hit Kennedy and Connally, when there isn't a shred of evidence for it. There is also not a shred of evidence that the bullet now in evidence was ever at Parkland Hospital.

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Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Your list is bogus.

No, your reply is bogus. You don't know what you're talking about. The fact that you would say my list is bogus shows you have read few if any books that discuss the evidence of conspiracy in the assassination. I mean, how can you pretend to be a serious researcher and not know that those persons expressed the belief that Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy? Their statements have been documented and discussed in numerous books on the case, even in some generic books not written to support conspiracy but just to serve as general introductions to the case.