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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 1103684 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #364 on: July 20, 2020, 02:23:23 AM »
You really need to leave the COVID-19 panic party and get a grip on reality. Do you realize that the U.S. COVID-19 crude death rate is 0.04276%. That is is 23 times lower than 1%. A crude death rate of 1% among the U.S. population would equal 3,282,000 deaths. After nearly six months into the pandemic, we are nowhere near that number. We're at 143,000 COVID-19 deaths, and the case death rate has *dropped* since most states began to reopen, whereas it skyrocketed for several weeks 2-3 weeks after the lockdowns began, which should not happened according to panic peddlers.

The 1957-1958 Asian Flu pandemic killed the modern equivalent of 216,000 Americans. Yet, there was no lockdown, no shutting down of half the economy, no putting millions of people out of work, no mass closing of schools, etc. Why did we not close schools, shut down half the economy, and put millions of people out of work? Because we decided that such a "cure" be too destructive compared to a more moderate approach.

To put this into further context, consider the following annual death tolls from other causes of death in the U.S.:

640,000 --- heart disease
590,000 --- cancer
250,000 --- medical errors
169,000 –- accidents
160,000 --- chronic lower respiratory diseases

Imagine if the major news outlets reported on medical errors in the same way that most of them have reported on COVID-19. Medical errors kill about 250,000 Americans each year, or about 684 per day, 4,700 per week, or 20,800 per month. Imagine the panic that would occur if we were subjected to daily reports like the following:

“Yesterday over 600 Americans died from medical errors.”
“Last week, 30% more Americans went to the doctor than usual, and the number of deaths from medical errors rose by 4,500.”
“The death toll from medical errors continues to rise, with over 1,800 American dying from medical errors over the last three days alone.”
“Three months into this year have seen over 60,000 Americans die from medical errors.”

The substantial majority of Americans who catch COVID-19 have at least a 98.7% chance of *not* dying from it, according to every statistic we have. People aged 1-49 who catch the virus have a survival rate of at least 99.5%. The **overall average** survival rate in the U.S. is 95.8%, but you really need to look at the survival rates by age group because there is a huge difference between the rates for ages 65 and over and the rates for ages 64 and below.

And, yes, we most certainly can and should reopen the schools:

https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/18/a-new-report-by-health-policy-experts-shows-path-to-reopen-schools/

You really need to leave the COVID-19 panic party and get a grip on reality.

Fight windmills often, Don Q?

After nearly six months into the pandemic, we are nowhere near that number. We're at 143,000 COVID-19 deaths,

Which is the highest number of deaths in the world! Every other countries has less.... Go figure!

Btw, didn't you mean to say: "We're at only 143,000 COVID-19 deaths".... because that's how it came across... Just checkin'

and the case death rate has *dropped* since most states began to reopen, whereas it skyrocketed for several weeks 2-3 weeks after the lockdowns began, which should not happened according to panic peddlers.

BS... I have been in Spain, since early March, and they took a hit at the beginning but they got it under control by a functional lockdown. In the area where I am there have been some 2000 infections and 120 deaths since March and in the last six weeks the numbers have been minimal. The last death was a week ago. To claim a lockdown doesn't work is pathetic. A badly executed lockdown, because of ignorant people who don't give a damn about anybody but themselves and don't follow the rules, doesn't work and that's what you are really talking about!

Btw, the virus has an incubation time of 2 to 3 weeks, so the numbers that skyrocketed 2 to 3 weeks after the lockdowns began originate from before the lockdown.

The 1957-1958 Asian Flu pandemic killed the modern equivalent of 216,000 Americans. Yet, there was no lockdown, no shutting down of half the economy, no putting millions of people out of work, no mass closing of schools, etc. Why did we not close schools, shut down half the economy, and put millions of people out of work? Because we decided that such a "cure" be too destructive compared to a more moderate approach.

Translation; money over people's health.... That is what you are really saying, isn't it!

To put this into further context, consider the following annual death tolls from other causes of death in the U.S.:

640,000 --- heart disease
590,000 --- cancer
250,000 --- medical errors
169,000 –- accidents
160,000 --- chronic lower respiratory diseases


That's not putting it in context. That's spin to minimize the death toll of covid-19. I don't know if the number you give are even correct, but you seem to be saying that the covid-19 deaths are not important because more people die of other causes. That's just sick!

The difference between the covid-19 deaths and those in your list is that the deaths in the list are individual cases of people dying of a cause that they were not infected with by transmission from another person.

The substantial majority of Americans who catch COVID-19 have at least a 98.7% chance of *not* dying from it, according to every statistic we have. People aged 1-49 who catch the virus have a survival rate of at least 99.5%. The **overall average** survival rate in the U.S. is 95.8%, but you really need to look at the survival rates by age group because there is a huge difference between the rates for ages 65 and over and the rates for ages 64 and below.

What you completely fail to understand is that this isn't about the people that survive  the virus. It's about the people that won't because they get infected by somebody who is carrying the virus without showing symptons. Free movement without any kind of protective measures will ensure a faster rate of spreading the virus and ultimately killing the weakest people. Two weeks ago, in Zurich, they opened the nightclubs.... on the first night one person infected 300 others! Contact tracing allowed the authorities to find most of them before the thing got out of hand. The nightclubs are of course closed again and rightly so. You really must be foolishly thinking something like this can not happen in America.....

Stick your statistics where the sun don't shine and the next time you go and see your loved ones prepare a list of all the people you have been in contact with in this opened up economy you want so much... you know, just to be on the safe side....

And, yes, we most certainly can and should reopen the schools:

Kids get infected also.... and then they go to see granddad and grandma..... Get the picture?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 10:50:57 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Paul May

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #365 on: July 20, 2020, 02:28:15 AM »
You really need to leave the COVID-19 panic party and get a grip on reality. Do you realize that the U.S. COVID-19 crude death rate is 0.04276%. That is is 23 times lower than 1%. A crude death rate of 1% among the U.S. population would equal 3,282,000 deaths. After nearly six months into the pandemic, we are nowhere near that number. We're at 143,000 COVID-19 deaths, and the case death rate has *dropped* since most states began to reopen, whereas it skyrocketed for several weeks 2-3 weeks after the lockdowns began, which should not happened according to panic peddlers.

The 1957-1958 Asian Flu pandemic killed the modern equivalent of 216,000 Americans. Yet, there was no lockdown, no shutting down of half the economy, no putting millions of people out of work, no mass closing of schools, etc. Why did we not close schools, shut down half the economy, and put millions of people out of work? Because we decided that such a "cure" be too destructive compared to a more moderate approach.

To put this into further context, consider the following annual death tolls from other causes of death in the U.S.:

640,000 --- heart disease
590,000 --- cancer
250,000 --- medical errors
169,000 –- accidents
160,000 --- chronic lower respiratory diseases

Imagine if the major news outlets reported on medical errors in the same way that most of them have reported on COVID-19. Medical errors kill about 250,000 Americans each year, or about 684 per day, 4,700 per week, or 20,800 per month. Imagine the panic that would occur if we were subjected to daily reports like the following:

“Yesterday over 600 Americans died from medical errors.”
“Last week, 30% more Americans went to the doctor than usual, and the number of deaths from medical errors rose by 4,500.”
“The death toll from medical errors continues to rise, with over 1,800 American dying from medical errors over the last three days alone.”
“Three months into this year have seen over 60,000 Americans die from medical errors.”

The substantial majority of Americans who catch COVID-19 have at least a 98.7% chance of *not* dying from it, according to every statistic we have. People aged 1-49 who catch the virus have a survival rate of at least 99.5%. The **overall average** survival rate in the U.S. is 95.8%, but you really need to look at the survival rates by age group because there is a huge difference between the rates for ages 65 and over and the rates for ages 64 and below.

And, yes, we most certainly can and should reopen the schools:

https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/18/a-new-report-by-health-policy-experts-shows-path-to-reopen-schools/

One more Hannity/Ingraham wannabe. Same propaganda, different day. This is hardly about recovery rates. Science, medicine at this time doesn’t yet know the long term ramifications of this disease. 6 months, one year, people can be a symptomatic or recover within a few weeks and still have huge issues down the road. You know this yet you say nothing regarding that. Why? What’s your agenda? Thankfully the schools in my area are not reopening but going to virtual schooling. When Trump is history come November I’ll make a contribution to those school systems.


Offline Paul May

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #366 on: July 20, 2020, 02:30:31 AM »
   Bump regarding  BS: claim that, "Those being polled NOW, some 100 days before the election are "Likely Voters".  ABC/WashPost RECENTLY  questioned a "RANDOM SAMPLE/1,006". YOU do Not Know, what YOU do Not Know.

Storing has spent the past hour or so googling polling. lol. Now that’s entertainment.

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #367 on: July 20, 2020, 02:33:32 AM »

  You got taken to the Wood Shed 2 times in 30 seconds. Ouch!

Offline Paul May

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #368 on: July 20, 2020, 02:38:07 AM »
  You got taken to the Wood Shed 2 times in 30 seconds. Ouch!

Says the guy who claims polling “likely” voters is BS. He never knew this polling existed until he was educated about it yet claims to “counsel” his clients. Funnier and funnier. Cannot make this crap up.

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #369 on: July 20, 2020, 02:40:14 AM »


  You tell us ALL about it Wood Shed Man.

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #370 on: July 20, 2020, 02:42:52 AM »
BS: disinformation

There isn't one major country facing this disaster that we are. Making bogus comparisons to cover up for Benedict Donald is disgraceful.

What happened to "fair & balanced"..... not even considering the link to a generally unreliable source, thefederalist.com ?

Michael gives us a peek through the window into the bubble. With so many sources reporting "fake news", according to Trump-World, what sources are there to link to? Solomon's jutthenews.com and the QAnon, flavored, "Trump is a victim of the deep state". thefederalist.com

Let's run through it. "Journalist" (I already brought "misgivings" to Michael, about the reliability of, his links to Solomon's justhenews covid-19 drug study "reporters", and how to check on their backgrounds to anticipate if their reputations are politically or scientifically oriented; i.e., discernment.)

Allison Schuster is described as an intern @ thefederalist.com and appears to be an undergraduate student at Hillsdale College, known for turning out committed conservatives against federal government mandates or controls.

Quote
https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/18/a-new-report-by-health-policy-experts-shows-path-to-reopen-schools/
A New Report By Health Policy Experts Shows Path To Reopen Schools
JULY 18, 2020 By Allison Schuster
A new report summarizes research showing the financial and health repercussions of keeping schools, colleges, and child-care facilities closed far outweigh any risk. The Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity report also offers recommendations on how to reopen for the safest and fairest results.

Report coauthor Avik Roy said in a tweet the report aims for policymakers to learn of and “heed the educational, social, and public health impact of prolonged school closures” for the nearly 80 million U.S. students who have already been out of school for months in 2020. ......
......

Quote
https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/18/hillsdale-college-refuses-to-bow-to-the-totalitarian-mob/

Hillsdale College refuses to speak on command of totalitarian mob
Allison Schuster, Federalist  June 19, 2020

....directs readers to this guy's, Avik Roy's "study"!
Background is as anti-ACA flack and former Romney 2012 campaign advisor during the period Romney defended against claims he was for RomneyCare in Massachusetts before he was against it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avik_Roy#Journalism

https://twitter.com/Avik/status/1283915228393218056


Reporting from multiple sources cites one quarter of recent public schools teaching staff being of elevated risks age.

If Michael T Griffith has any details supporting the study he linked to, since Avik Roy's involvement stains it as contemporary far right messaging, more than circa 2020 medical and social science based conclusions or even sound  advice based on the body of scientific knowledge as it is understood in June, 2020, Michael should share it in this thread.

I underlined the names of Avik Roy's claimed co-authors. Michael or anyone else can pursue and verify that the backgrounds of the co-authors are hopefully more science oriented or more likely, "republican legislative campaigning, 2020." Or, possibly some of them still believe they've penned a paper of "Trump 2020 Levitating" proportions!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 03:09:50 AM by Tom Scully »