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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 302657 times)

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6232 on: June 02, 2023, 09:58:04 AM »
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Paul Charlton: Trump would face charges under Espionage Act if he took classified military docs

New York Times Chief White House Correspondent Peter Baker, Politico White House Bureau Chief Jonathan Lemire, and former U.S. Attorney Paul Charlton join Andrea Mitchell to react to a 2021 recording in which former President Donald Trump acknowledged that he took a classified military planning document and to analyze the impact on Special Counsel Jack Smith’s investigation into the documents found at Mar-a-Lago. “The Department of Justice will not have to prove that the document President Trump had in his hand is a classified document to show a violation of the Espionage Act. There would be other charges that may very well meet that definition, if in fact this was a classified document,” says Charlton. “Holding classified documents at a golf country club is wholly inappropriate, and that is a violation of the law as well.”

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6232 on: June 02, 2023, 09:58:04 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6233 on: June 02, 2023, 08:35:38 PM »
Trump kept classified documents to help him 'control the narrative': law professor



Donald Trump's defense that he was allowed to mentally declassify the top-secret documents stashed at Mar-a-Lago has been thrown into chaos by reporting showing that audio tapes exist of Trump telling people he possessed a document showing plans to attack Iran, but didn't have the authority to show it to them.

But more interesting, argued New York University law professor Ryan Goodman, is the reports that Trump apparently wanted to use the document to embarrass Gen. Mark Milley and pin efforts to invade Iran on him.

"There were boxes and boxes of this stuff, storage rooms of this stuff," said anchor Erin Burnett. "Some of it obviously highly classified. We're talking about one document here ... and this is significant because we have Trump on tape talking about it. Its existence and his inability to declassify it which goes against his court event."

"What is the best possible explanation for Trump's motivation in keeping the documents?" asked the host.

"So the CNN reporting is in some sense a breakthrough on this particular question, the one that is hanging around that hasn't been answered: what is his motive?" said Goodman. "And here we have him, it seems like, in this situation using them for the motive of his public image. He's trying to control the narrative. There's been a report out that Milley stopped him from potentially attacking Iran in his final days. He says, no, I have the document that counteracts this, and Milley had a plan."

"That's him trying to control the narrative and his image, and that would be a reason to hold on to the documents because he could use them," Goodman continued.

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Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Donald Trump Indicted!
« Reply #6234 on: June 03, 2023, 03:35:04 AM »

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Re: Donald Trump Indicted!
« Reply #6234 on: June 03, 2023, 03:35:04 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6235 on: June 03, 2023, 09:48:49 AM »
'Too dumb to even play dumb': Legal expert says Trump is in deep trouble even if Iran document is lost



New reporting suggests that lawyers for former President Donald Trump are unable to locate the highly classified document detailing an attack plan against Iran that he was caught on tape telling people at his Bedminster club he possessed.

On MSNBC Friday, national security analyst Michael Schmidt said this could make the case harder to charge — but former Solicitor General Neal Katyal believes just the opposite.

"I have to say that classified documents about Iran are pretty high up on the list of things that you don't want to lose at a country club," said Katyal. "...This is not a hard case to prove to this prosecution. If anything, it's easier to make a case against Trump than it is against others. Trump is his own worst enemy when it comes to his legal troubles. He opens his mouth in all sorts of ways that implicate him even further."

"I don't think Mike (Schmidt) is right when he says the question here is whether or not they can find this document about Iran," Katyal continued. "Whether or not they find this document or not, that's not what the prosecution is going to be based on. The relevance of this whole story and this tape is not for the document itself. It's about — it goes to Trump's state of mind.

"The defense he's been articulating ever since the search on Mar-a-Lago is, I declassified this stuff in my mind. I had a standing order. I took stuff out of the White House. It was automatically declassified. Here he's saying, there is a document I took out on the White House, and that document is classified, therefore, I can't show it to you. That blows a hole in the defense."

"Whether Trump exerted incompetence with respect to that document or mishandled that document, that's an interesting question," added Katyal. "Prosecutors, of course, should get to the bottom of it. The real point is they found the goods. They found more than 100 classified documents in his house after they swore he didn't. And the one defense he's been articulating since the search is now contradicted by his own words. It's as if Donald Trump is too dumb to even play dumb, which was his defense."

"The analysis report being in The Times makes clear that Trump is on tape acknowledging that he had items that hadn't been declassified by him or anybody else," said anchor Nicolle Wallace. "Could potentially blow a hole through all of the public defenses. That is Mike saying, yeah, there are legal defenses. It seems to always boil down to this stupid and chaotic defense, if the past is prologue. But what do you make of what is known to be — to be evidence that Jack Smith put before the grand jury?"

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Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6236 on: June 03, 2023, 09:59:36 AM »
Here’s why the Trump tape puts the former president in serious legal jeopardy



The blockbuster CNN report earlier this week that federal prosecutors are in possession of an audio recording of Donald Trump in which he admits to keeping a classified document describing a potential attack on Iran, could have major legal implications for the former president, The Bulwark reports.

According to the CNN report, Trump is heard on the recording suggesting that, although he wishes to share the information, he’s aware that as a former president he can’t declassify them, multiple sources told the cable news channel, indicating he understood he was in possession of classified material.

Kim Wehle writes for the Bulwark that, if reports of the recording are true, it could provide compelling evidence for special counsel Jack Smith, who took over two sprawling investigations of the former president; the handling of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago and Trump’s role in the Jan. 6 insurrection.

Smith in the Mar-a-Lago case will have to prove what in legal circles is called “mens rea,” which is Latin for proof of a guilty mind.

Wehle writes that “Smith’s team would have to prove in some fashion that Trump acted willfully, knowingly, or intentionally and not just out of hubris, ignorance, or neglect in taking the materials and then repeatedly blowing off the FBI. In general, prosecutors can prove mens rea using circumstantial evidence, which relies on inferences. But direct evidence is better.”

Wehle notes the typical example of indirect evidence would be determining whether it had been raining through inference.

“The Bedminster audio recording, if authentic, is of the direct kind—it presumably reflects Trump’s own words in his own voice expressing his knowledge or belief that he possessed classified information, that he isn’t supposed to share it, and that he does not have the authority anymore to declassify it,” Wehle writes.

“Coupled with his preposterous public talking point that ‘If you’re the president of the United States, you can declassify just by saying ‘it’s declassified,’ even by thinking about it,’ the audiotaped meeting suggests that Trump knew he had stuff that he had no legal authority to have.”

Wehle believes the audio may provide the “mens rea.”

“Given how cavalier Trump is about saying the quiet stuff out loud (his town hall attacks on E. Jean Carroll after her $5 million jury verdict produced a request for even more punitive damages), it would be surprising if, Lordy, there aren’t more tapes out there,” Wehle writes.

“So far, the Mar-a-Lago scandal hasn’t weakened Trump’s hold on the GOP base. But as Carroll’s case showed, juries are different. Assuming the reports about this audio recording are accurate, it seems ever more likely that Trump will be held to account, and the American public will have its day in court.”

Read the full article here: https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/why-trump-tape-matters-for-mar-a-lago-case



'Sharply incriminating': ex-federal prosecutor explains how Jack Smith has upper hand in docs probe



Donald Trump's criminal intent in the classified documents investigation won't be difficult to prove if Jack Smith does have a copy of the audio in which the former president admits to possessing military plans and discussing them with others.

If special counsel Smith has the audio, which purportedly includes an admission that he knew he couldn't just instantly declassify documents and was first reported by CNN, that could mean a lot, according to former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner. Kirschner.

Appearing on MSNBC on Friday night, Kirschener was asked by host Ali Velshi if the audio recording actually provides help in the area of criminal intent. Kirschener said it's important to remember that "everything you say is admissible in the court of public opinion" but not in a court of law.

"Guess what? Prosecutors get to introduce at a trial any statement they want that Donald Trump made," he said. "Because under the rules of evidence, it is a statement of a party opponent. They will surgically introducing statements."

The same doesn't go for Trump's side, Kirschener added.

"Donald Trump's lawyers are prohibited, under the rules of evidence, from introducing any of Donald's out of court statements to prove the truth of the matter asserted," he said. "So when we see these statements, conflicting statements from Donald Trump, prosecutors will exploit them by presenting the jury one statement where Donald Trump said I declassified everything with my mind, or automatically when I took them with me."

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6236 on: June 03, 2023, 09:59:36 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6237 on: June 03, 2023, 10:11:43 AM »
Fani Willis' Trump election fraud probe expands into 'several other states': Washington Post



Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis' probe of former President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election results is reportedly no longer just a Peach State affair.

The Washington Post reports that Willis' probe of Trump and his allies' post-election activities has expanded to include "activities in Washington, D.C., and several other states," which the Post notes is "a fresh sign that prosecutors may be building a sprawling case under Georgia’s racketeering laws."

In particular, Willis' team has been investigating the fact that Trump's campaign hired two different companies to investigate voter fraud accusations and then buried their results when they came back empty handed.

Given that these firms did work not only in Georgia but in other key swing states Trump lost, it's forced Willis' office to go beyond state borders for evidence.

Trump currently faces a slew of legal problems, including a civil lawsuit over allegedly fraudulent business practices from New York Attorney General Letitia James; criminal charges related to his hush-money payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels; two different investigations into his efforts to illegally remain in power after losing the 2020 election to President Joe Biden; and an investigation into his decision to stash top-secret government documents at his Mar-a-Lago resort.

Trump was also recently found liable for sexually abusing and defaming journalist E. Jean Carroll.

Read More Here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/02/trump-georgia-election-investigation-fulton-county/



CNN legal analyst tells Trump to brace for new indictment: 'Spidey Sense tells me they're near the end'



CNN legal analyst Elie Honig on Friday suggested that former President Donald Trump needs to be prepared for another potential indictment coming his way, this one courtesy of special counsel Jack Smith.

After breaking down a timeline of Trump's actions in the Mar-a-Lago documents scandal, Honig went through the elements of a criminal case that prosecutors will have to prove to successfully convict the former president.

"When you get down to the law, prosecutors have to prove, one, Donald Trump had knowledge, did he know he had these documents? Obviously he's acknowledged that many times including in this recording," Honig explained. "Two, did he have some sort of criminal intent, and one thing we've learned from the reporting, he was doing something with those documents. He was using them to try to shape the public narrative about his time in office."

Honig also pointed out that Trump's false statements would be a boon to prosecutors looking to show criminal intent.

"He has made these repeated false public claims about whether he declassified," he said. "We remember at the town hall [CNN host Kaitlan Collins] asked whether Trump had ever showed classified documents to anyone, and Trump responded, 'Not really, I would have the right to, by the way, they were declassified after.' We know that's not true. Here he is after office saying these are still classified, I can't show them to you, and that goes to criminal intent."

Given all this, Honig said it would be fair to expect another Trump indictment will be handed down soon if Smith chooses to prosecute him.

"My prosecutorial Spidey-Sense tells me they are near the end," he said.

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Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6238 on: June 03, 2023, 10:53:35 PM »
Legal experts create 186-page roadmap for Jack Smith 'to obtain and sustain a conviction' in Trump docs case



A distinguished group of former Department of Justice officials, former federal prosecutors, law professors and legal scholars have combined their talents and created a 186-page "Model Prosecution Memo" that lays out their proposed path to indict and convict former President Donald Trump of six federal crimes.

Writing for Above the Law, Andrew Weissmann, Ryan Goodman, Joyce Vance, Norman L. Eisen, Fred Wertheimer, Siven Watt, E. Danya Perry, Joshua Stanton and Joshua Kolb, stated that, based on what is already publicly known about the sensitive government documents that the former president took with him to Mar-a-Lago after his election loss — and his refusal to hand them over — there is already a solid enough case for a conviction.

The entire document (which can be read here or below) makes the case that the former president can be charged with:

Mishandling of Government Documents:

1. Retention of National Defense Information (18 U.S.C. § 793(e))

2. Concealing Government Records (18 U.S.C. § 2071)

3. Conversion of Government Property (18 U.S.C. § 641)



Obstruction, Contempt, False Information

1. Obstruction of Justice (18 U.S.C. § 1519)

2. Criminal Contempt (18 U.S.C. § 402)

3. False Statements to Federal Investigators (18 U.S.C. § 1001)


They wrote, "There is sufficient evidence to obtain and sustain a conviction here, if the information gleaned from government filings and statements and voluminous public reporting is accurate. Indeed, the DOJ is likely now, or shortly will be, internally circulating a pros memo of its own saying so. That DOJ memo will, however, be highly confidential, in part because it will contain information derived through the grand jury and attorney work product. Since it will not be publicly available, we offer this analysis."

As part of the memo, they stated, "....the discussion starts with Trump’s resistance to the Government’s attempts to recover the documents. We recount the more than one-and-a-half-year effort on the part of the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) and the Justice Department to recover the documents. Those efforts culminated in the FBI’s recovery of approximately 13,000 documents, including information on some of the nation’s most sensitive national defense programs, pursuant to a court-authorized search warrant for Mar-a-Lago (MAL)."

In their conclusion, they suggested, "The Department’s own precedent makes clear that charging Trump would be to treat him comparably to others who engaged in similar criminal behavior, often with far fewer aggravating factors than the former president. Based on the publicly available information to date, a powerful case exists for charging Trump under the federal criminal statutes discussed in this memorandum."

You can read the memo in this link: https://www.rawstory.com/trump-indictment-jack-smith-2660859716/



The DOJ now has an 'arsenal' of Donald Trump 'smoking guns': ex-prosecutor



Reacting to the newly revealed audio tape of Donald Trump reportedly bragging about sharing sensitive government documents after he was out of office, a former prosecutor suggested it is just another "smoking gun" that can be added to the "arsenal" of smoking guns the Department of Justice has on the former president.

Appearing on MSNBC's "The Alex Witt Show," former prosecutor Charles E. Colman claimed that there is such a preponderance of evidence against the former president -- much of which has come directly from his public comments -- that is may only be a matter of weeks before he is indicted by special counsel Jack Smith.

"Is this recording a smoking gun? Does it provide the nexus to prove Trump's intent, and that he knew all along the limitations of declassifying documents?" host Witt asked.

"Well, I do think it's a smoking gun," Colman replied. "It's important to understand, Donald Trump has already provided Jack Smith and special counsel's office with a smoking arsenal of other different things along the lines of establishing his guilt in criminal liabilities -- especially with the Mar-a-Lago case."

"This case has been very straightforward from the outset, because of the myriad attempts of federal agencies to try and get documents from Donald Trump, letting him know that he should not have them," he added.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6238 on: June 03, 2023, 10:53:35 PM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6239 on: June 04, 2023, 04:27:08 AM »
Trump insiders 'unnerved' and angry as the DOJ pores over lawyer's notes about Mar-a-Lago documents: NYT



Donald Trump lawyer Evan Corcoran's habit of dictating his notes into his phone has aides to the former president furious and "unnerved" now that the Department of Justice has the phone and has transcribed his musings, reports the New York Times.

On Saturday the Times reported that while Corcoran was working with the former president while searching for sensitive documents held at Mar-a-Lago, he used his phone to detail the conversations and the advice he was giving the president -- and what he said could be central to an indictment of the former president.

As the report notes, in March Federal Judge Beryl A. Howell "pierced the privilege that would have normally protected Mr. Corcoran’s musings about his interactions with Mr. Trump. Those protections were set aside under what is known as the crime-fraud exception, a provision that allows prosecutors to work around attorney-client privilege if they have reason to believe that legal advice or legal services were used in furthering a crime."

As part of the judge's order, Corcoran turned over his phone which contained a "voice memo Mr. Corcoran made last year — during a long car drive for a family event the morning after" he met with Trump over the disputed documents that are at the center of one of special counsel Jack Smith's investigations.

What Corcoran said has Trump insiders fearing the worst.

According to the Times, "Mr. Corcoran’s notes, which have not been previously described in such detail, will likely play a central role as Mr. Smith and his team move toward concluding their investigation and turn to the question of whether to bring charges against Mr. Trump. They could also show up as evidence in a courtroom if a criminal case is ultimately filed and goes to trial," with the report adding, "The level of detail in the recording is said to have angered and unnerved close aides to Mr. Trump who are worried they contain not only direct quotes from sensitive conversations."

The report adds, "...according to a description of the recorded notes, Mr. Trump asked Mr. Corcoran if he had to comply with the subpoena. Mr. Corcoran told him that he did. That exchange could be useful to prosecutors as they collect evidence on whether Mr. Trump sought to obstruct the subpoena process and interfere with the government’s broader efforts to retrieve all of the sensitive records that he took with him from the White House."

You can read more here: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/03/us/politics/trump-lawyers-classified-documents-corcoran.html



Trump's lawyers will 'cut their losses' when indictments come: Guardian reporter



Appearing on MSNBC on Saturday morning, Guardian reporter Hugo Lowell predicted a massive reshuffling within Donald Trump's legal team if and when special counsel Jack Smith secures an indictment of the former president.

Speaking with host Katie Phang and co-panelist Joyce Vance, Lowell claimed the chaos among Trump's team of lawyers — who have reportedly been bickering and fighting with each other over strategy — has settled down for now but that can be expected to change if Smith files charges.

With Vance speculating when indictments may come down, host Phang asked Lowell about his reporting on the Trump lawyer turmoil.

Noting that Lowell has called theformer president's battling lawyers a "trainwreck," Phang asked, "The fact there's a level of disorganization and infighting in Trump's legal team, [is that] going to create more problems for Donald Trump?"

"I think, you know, it's certainly possible, right?" he replied. "We reported this week that there's been a level of distrust and interpersonal conflict, that we did not previously appreciate. And it has been going on since September and it has lasted all the way through and along the way, there's been a murder-suicide pact."

"Along the way there have been some lawyers withholding legal deliberations and kind of legal strategy, thinking from other co-counsel. because they were worried they might brief their sort of perceived rivals," he added. "This, I think, reached a head a few weeks ago when Tim Parlatore one of the lawyers on the legal team resigned."

Adding that it appears the lawyers are "on their best behavior" now, he continued, "I think if it does get an indictment, you should probably expect a reorganization of the legal team."

"We should be looking at whether the reorganization is to kind of cut their losses about their last team, and see if they can start a new one," he added.

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