Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 297015 times)

Offline Rick Plant

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8177
Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4176 on: July 28, 2021, 11:00:06 PM »
Advertisement
Donald Trump is a loser. Several of his handpicked stooges he endorsed have lost their races and this is just another one. This loser lost the election in a blowout and his sycophants think he will run in 2024 when he is even less popular in the GOP.  :D

Trump's big Texas loss sent 'shockwaves through the former president's inner circle': report


Always angry, always mentally ill


The loss of Donald Trump-endorsed Texas Republican Susan Wright in her House special election race sent "shockwaves through the former president's inner circle," according to POLITICO's Alex Isenstadt.

Now, Republicans are worried that another Trump-backed candidate in a special election next week in Ohio, who is locked in a close primary, could suffer the same fate.

"Advisers worry that a second embarrassing loss would raise questions about the power of Trump's endorsement — his most prized political commodity, which candidates from Ohio to Wyoming are scrambling to earn before next year's midterms," Isenstadt writes. "More broadly, losses could undermine his standing in the Republican Party, where his popularity and influence has protected Trump's relevance even as a former president barred from his social media megaphones."

According to Axios, some of Trump's advisers have blamed the situation on the Club for Growth, a conservative group that reportedly urged the former president to throw his support behind Wright.

"[Trump] totally was taken to the cleaners by the Club for Growth," said Rick Perry.

According to former top Republican National Committee official Doug Heye, a "loss is a loss."

"...and for someone who touts himself as the ultimate winner, putting your thumb on the scale and then losing tarnishes that brand within the party," he told POLITICO.

The upcoming Ohio contest raise the stakes for Trump's endorsement power because it's a Republican-only primary, making it a "purer test of his ability to shape GOP nomination contests."

Read the full article over at POLITICO:
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/28/texas-loss-trump-republican-party-clout-501347



MSNBC's Claire McCaskill thinks Republicans would be wise to abandon Donald Trump before he brings down the entire party

The Trump-endorsed Susan Wright lost her Texas congressional special election to fellow Republican Jake Ellzey, and "Morning Joe" host Joe Scarborough said that telling defeat comes against the backdrop of the first Jan. 6 select committee hearing that GOP lawmakers have sought to undermine.

"These so called conservatives are actually embracing the chaos, embracing the fascist violence, apologizing for it, trying to paper over it, trying to cover up the fascist violence, the fascist violence that had one goal, one goal, to overturn the legitimate democratic election result of November 2020," Scarborough said. "It's right here in front of us, and we can actually see as we saw in the last clip."

The evidence of Trump's complicity in the insurrection was strong enough to get him impeached a second time, and McCaskill said Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell and his fellow GOP senators are complicit, as well.

"Let's not let the Republicans in the Senate off the hook here, too," McCaskill said. "Remember, fewer than 10 of them voted for a bipartisan commission to make sure that we did certify the facts for American history, that we did make sure that no one had any questions based on party what actually happened, and Mitch McConnell killed the bipartisan commission. He got out there, he whipped his members, he told them not to vote for it. He told them they couldn't win the midterms if there was a credible body that uncovered the facts. He wanted to make sure that they could somehow try to shoehorn this into some kind of partisan effort, and that is how bad it is."

However, she said, Wright's loss should serve as a warning to them.

"I will tell you this, there is a cold ripple of fear running down the spine of Republicans on Capitol Hill this morning because Donald Trump's candidate lost last night," McCaskill said. "They have all been genuflecting for this ridiculous man that held the Oval Office, trying to say that they have to be for him because otherwise their party can't survive. [Sen.] Lindsey [Graham], Trump's guy lost, so let's just make sure that we realize that as this door begins to swing, we're going to see how many of them scramble to get out of the way."





Trump's support begins melting like a snowball in hell

Donald Trump's influence is melting like a snowball left on the kitchen table.

In a special election to replace a Texas congressman who died, voters rejected Donald Trump's chosen candidate, the widow Susan Wright.

Instead, Texas voters in the Sixth Congressional District located southeast of the Dallas-Ft. Worth metro area picked Jake Ellzey, a conservative state representative. Ellzey got 53.3% of the vote; Wright 46.7%, out of fewer than 40,000 ballots cast.

Unlike the widow, who ran what can barely be called a campaign and proved weak at raising money, Ellzey proved to be an effective campaigner and political fundraiser.

Ellzey never criticized Trump. Had he done that and then won, I'd tell you that snowball was melting on a hot stove.

But Ellzey did have to contend with opposition by the perfidious junior senator from the Lone Star state, Ted Cruz, and the Club for Growth, which claims to be conservative but which exists to ensure that little people are more heavily taxed than the already rich. That Cruz, a servile Trumper, backed the wrong candidate suggests that his never strong standing with Texas voters is also dwindling.

This week's election results show yet again what a terrible choice Republican leaders made after Trump's failed coup in January. The insurrection, a clown show attempted coup, gave them the option to denounce Trump, to walk away from the crazy old man from Mar-a-Lago who tried to overthrow our government.

The Republican leaders are akin to the fools who received stock options during the dot con era at the turn of the century but failed to exercise them because they foolishly believed their options would become even more valuable but instead turned to dross.

Politics, it's often noted, is the art of the possible. The current Republican leadership has pretty much made it impossible to separate itself from Trump, a decaying albatross they chose to hang around their collective necks.

True believers continue to think of Trump as a demigod, lost in denial of his delusions, lies, and incompetence in accomplishing what he promised voters in his first campaign.

At a multi-racial ice cream social on Sunday, a friend told me that one of his sisters, who has an advanced degree, says Trump is literally a god.

It was far from the first time I heard such nonsense – blasphemous to any religious believer – but it was the first time anyone told me that a person with a first-rate education embraces such craziness. That shows how much this is about emotions, not rational thinking.

Sadly, few people know that while Trump claims to be a staunch Christian who reads the Bible more than anyone, his words show that he holds Christians in utter contempt. He went on for page after page in his Think Big book, denouncing those who accept Jesus's teaching in the Sermon on the Mount as "fools," "idiots," and "schmucks."

Unless you believe most Americans are damn fools, support for Trump will continue to dwindle.

That's a good thing for democracy in America. Our Constitution embraces Enlightenment principles of freedom rooted in rationality and reason, not cultish devotion to a wannabe dictator, especially one as incompetent as Trump and his gang.

As Trump continues his descent into madness and frets about his pending indictments, we should hope that the Republican leaders hold fast in their foolish embrace of Trump. Sticking by their awful decision after the Jan. 6 insurrection establishes they are knowingly evil in submitting to Trump and his anti-American desire to become our dictator. That submissiveness should reduce their numbers in Congress.

Let us hope that actual Republicans with some principles arise to defeat the faux Republicans who put Trump ahead of their oath to defend our Constitution. Otherwise, we will continue to suffer from those who, like Cruz and the Senate and House minority leaders, show allegiance to the criminal mind of Donald J. Trump.

https://www.rawstory.com/trumps-support-begins-melting-like-a-snowball-in-hell/


Trump 'trying very hard to pretend he actually won' after his big loss in Texas

State Rep. Jake Ellzey pulled off a major upset in the special election runoff in Texas' 6th district on Tuesday when he defeated Susan Wright, a fellow Republican who was endorsed by former President Donald Trump. But in a phone call with Axios on Wednesday, Trump tried to reframe the defeat in Texas as a victory for himself.

"I think this is the only race we've lost together," Trump said, referring to himself and the Club for Growth, which reportedly pushed him to endorse Wright.

But, according to Axios, the former president caught himself "mid-sentence" and quickly tried to change his language.

"This is not a loss, again, I don't want to claim it is a loss, this was a win," Trump said. "The big thing is, we had two very good people running that were both Republicans. That was the win."

The former president endorsed Wright in April. "Susan Wright will be a terrific Congresswoman (TX-06) for the Great State of Texas," he said in a statement. "She is the wife of the late Congressman Ron Wright, who has always been supportive of our America First Policies."

New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman commented on the story on Twitter, saying that "Trump [is] trying very hard... to pretend he actually won."

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-texas-defeat/


Paul Krugman: GOP 'family values' rhetoric is as 'intellectually bankrupt' now as it was in 1992

"Hillbilly Elegy" author J.D. Vance, who is seeking the GOP nomination in Ohio's 2022 U.S. Senate race, was cynically playing the family values card when he railed against the "childless left" during a speech on Friday night, July 23 — and he even mentioned some Democrats by name. Liberal economist Paul Krugman has responded to Vance's speech in his July 26 column for the New York Times, stressing that Republican "family values" rhetoric is as empty and vacuous in 2021 as it was when the GOP made "family values" the theme of the 1992 Republican National Convention.

Vance was speaking at an event hosted by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, and the Democrats he singled out as examples of the "childless" trend in the U.S. included Vice President Kamala Harris, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, Sen. Cory Booker of New Jersey and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York City. And Vance praised Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán — a far-right authoritarian — for encouraging more procreation in his country. Booker and AOC, reporter Martin Pengelly noted in The Guardian, don't have any children. Harris has two stepchildren with her husband, Doug Emhoff.

Vance's speech, Krugman writes, brought back memories of the GOP's "family values" rhetoric of 1992.

"For a few weeks in 1992," Krugman writes, "U.S. politics were all about 'family values.' President George H.W. Bush was in electoral trouble because of a weak economy and rising inequality. So, his vice president, Dan Quayle, tried to change the subject by attacking Murphy Brown, a character in a TV sitcom (and) an unmarried woman who chose to have a child."

Krugman continues, "I was reminded of that incident when I read about recent remarks by J.D. Vance, the author of 'Hillbilly Elegy,' who is now a Republican Senate candidate in Ohio. Vance noted that some prominent Democrats don't have children, and he lashed out at the 'childless left.' He also praised the policies of Viktor Orbán, the leader of Hungary, whose government is subsidizing couples who have children, and asked, 'Why can't we do that here?'"

The Washington Post's Dave Weigel, covering Vance's speech, noted that he failed to mention President Joe Biden's child tax credit — which, Krugman points out, "will make an enormous difference to many poorer families with children."

"It was also interesting that (Vance) praised Hungary rather than other European nations with strong pronatalist policies," Krugman observes. "France, in particular, offers large financial incentives to families with children and has one of the highest fertility rates in the advanced world. So why did Vance single out for praise a repressive, autocratic government with a strong white nationalist bent? That was a rhetorical question."

Krugman goes on to say that "family values" rhetoric coming from Vance and other Republicans is meaningless without economic policies that actually help parents.

"The whole focus on 'family values' — as opposed to concrete policies that help families — turns out to have been an epic intellectual misfire," Krugman stresses. "Dan Quayle, of course, was no intellectual. But his sitcom offensive took place amid a sustained argument by conservative thinkers like Gertrude Himmelfarb that the decline of traditional values, especially traditional family structure, presaged widespread social collapse. The demise of Victorian virtues, it was widely argued, would lead to a future of spiraling crime and chaos. Society, however, declined to collapse."

Krugman cites some specific economic policies that are helpful to families, and they aren't Republican policies.

The economist writes, "When politicians rant about values, or attack other people's personal choices, it's usually a sign that they're unable or unwilling to propose policies that would actually improve American lives…. Doing more to help families with children — with financial aid, better health care and access to day care — is at or near the top of the list. The point, by the way, isn't to encourage people to have more kids — that's up to them — but to improve the lives of the children themselves, so that they grow up to become healthier, more productive adults."

Krugman adds, "On the other hand, yelling at members of the elite over their personal life decisions isn't on the list at all. And when that's all a politician does, it's a sign of intellectual and perhaps moral bankruptcy."

https://www.rawstory.com/paul-krugman-gop-family-values-rhetoric-is-as-intellectually-bankrupt-now-as-it-was-in-1992/

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4176 on: July 28, 2021, 11:00:06 PM »


Offline Rick Plant

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8177
Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4177 on: July 29, 2021, 12:00:25 AM »
Trump is mentally deteriorating -- and his 'sadistic' rhetoric has hit a dangerous new level: psychiatrist




On Jan. 6, Donald Trump attempted a coup to nullify the results of the 2020 presidential election. Thousands of his followers attacked the U.S. Capitol with the goal of preventing the certification of the Electoral College votes, a ceremonial procedure that would formally make Joe Biden the next president of the United States.

Five people died as a result of the Capitol attack. Capitol Police and other law enforcement fought bravely before being overrun by Trump's cult members, political goons and right-wing street thugs and paramilitaries. If not for the valiant efforts of those officers that day, the halls Congress could have been turned into a bloodbath. Vice President Mike Pence, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and others deemed by Trump and his followers to be traitors could easily have been murdered.

Trump's attack force made no attempt to hide their faces. They carried white supremacist flags and other regalia. They assembled a gallows in the park across the street from the Capitol. They carried a Christian nationalist cross and participated in group prayers before attacking the Capitol. The MAGA flag was viewed as a substitute for the American flag, if not as something superior. These terrorists believed themselves to be "patriots" who were defending the "real America" and of course the man they viewed as its true leader.

As we saw that day, fascist movements claim a special love for the police and military but will eagerly purge them for acts of "disloyalty" to the cause.

Only 543 or so members of Trump's attack force have been arrested by the FBI and other law enforcement agencies so far. Most will not be charged with serious crimes, and very few will face felony charges that could result in substantial prison time. The coup plotters and enablers — most notably Donald Trump and Republican members of Congress — will likely never be arrested or otherwise held properly accountable.

On Tuesday, the House select committee held its first hearings on the events of Jan. 6. Sgt. Aquilino Gonell, Officer Michael Fanone, Officer Daniel Hodges and Sgt. Harry Dunn shared their experiences of fighting to defend the Capitol from Trump's attack force.

They told the committee and public how they were attacked and beaten by rioters. They were clubbed, tased, crushed, blinded with pepper spray and other irritants, verbally abused (in Dunn's case, with racial slurs) and forced to confront the fear of death, overwhelmed and alone. The unifying theme in their testimony was that various kinds of fanaticism and rage, fueled by white supremacy, conspiracy theory, religious fundamentalism and cultlike devotion to Donald Trump propelled his attack force forward.

Despite the heroism of those officers and others, the coup continues. Jan. 6 was but one stop in a journey by Trump supporters, the Jim Crow Republicans, and the larger neofascist movement aimed at overthrowing multiracial democracy.

Donald Trump himself spoke at a rally in Phoenix on Saturday. He continued to threaten political violence against the Democrats and others who "stole" the 2020 election from him and his followers. The "Big Lie" was reinforced with a new conspiracy theory about "routers." Trump channeled numerous tropes of white victimology; his thousands of devoted followers basked in their collective sociopathy. The rally was clearly invigorating for Trump's broken and alienated followers, if only for a few hours. Such is Trump's power over his cult following, for whom he acts as a human intoxicant.

The mainstream media largely chose to treat Trump's rally in Phoenix as a sideshow not worthy of extensive coverage. This reflects a logic where if Trump and his neofascist movement are ignored, the danger to the country will go away. It will not. In hopes of better understanding Donald Trump's escalating threat to American democracy and the growing power of his fascist cult and movement, I asked several experts from a range of backgrounds for their thoughts on his speech in Phoenix.

Jennifer Mercieca is a professor of communication at Texas A&M, and the author of "Demagogue for President: The Rhetorical Genius of Donald Trump."

Former President Donald Trump is America's first "pretender to the presidency." We've never had a president claim to be president when he is not. We've never had a former president insist that he won the election when he did not. His speech in Arizona was for his partisans only, it wasn't meant to persuade anyone who doesn't already agree with his view of reality. It was awash in conspiracy theories. Trump's main message is "politics is war and the enemy cheats." That claim informs Trump's whole view of politics, including his election conspiracy claims. Trump's "pretender to the presidency" speech was dangerously anti-democratic.

Norm Ornstein is an emeritus scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, a columnist and contributing editor for The Atlantic and co-author (with E.J. Dionne Jr. and Thomas E. Mann) of "One Nation After Trump: A Guide for the Perplexed, the Disillusioned, the Desperate, and the Not-Yet Deported."

Donald Trump has tried to overturn a legitimate presidential election ever since last November. He incited a violent and deadly insurrection at the Capitol. He has lied every day, and is a traitor to his own country. Trump's speech in Arizona took the next step by trying to get the state's Republicans to decertify their 2020 election results, another step to undermine our system and divide us further. And of course, Trump is thoroughly corrupt. He does not belong in civil society.

Federico Finchelstein is a professor of history at the New School for Social Research, and the author of several books including "A Brief History of Fascist Lies." His writing has appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, Politico and the Guardian.

The Arizona speech made clear that Trump desires to be a fascist. He represents a return to the key elements of fascism: a style and substance steeped in political violence, a leader's cult, dictatorial aims and practices (remember the coup), a politics of hatred, religious fanaticism, militarization of politics, denial of science and totalitarian propaganda. Trump lies like a fascist. Fascists believe their lies and try to transform reality to resemble their lies. This is what Trump expected of his public in Arizona.

Dr. David Reiss is a psychiatrist, expert in mental fitness evaluations and contributor to "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump."

People are expressing the opinion that Donald Trump is deteriorating, be it emotionally and/or cognitively. I have not evaluated him, so I have neither a clinical baseline nor an acute clinical opinion. But I know what I see and what I hear. This all leads me to one conclusion: As a person and regarding any possible "diagnoses," Trump is mostly unchanged. Unhappier? Almost certainly. Angrier? Without a doubt. He also appears to be vengeful, vindictive and sadistic to a dangerous level. What is  new about that?

Trump has always relied on inventing reality extemporaneously to fit his mood and to connect with his audience. He has always had an expertise in that area, such that by now it comes naturally and without planning. He has always been very "strategic" in the moment — but not much further down the road than a few minutes into the future.

CNN recently featured a headline that read "This is the most unhinged Trump rant about the 2020 election yet." Trump is lying more, but Trump is not "more unhinged." Trump has always responded to being uncomfortable with reality by inventing his own reality to meet his needs. He is more uncomfortable with objective reality since Nov. 4, so of course he is increasingly inventing different "realities" that are even less grounded in reason and reality than the ones previously.

Jean Guerrero is an investigative reporter and author of "Hatemonger: Stephen Miller, Donald Trump, and the White Nationalist Agenda." Her writing and other work has been featured by the New York Times, PBS and NPR. She is currently an opinion columnist at the Los Angeles Times.

Trump's speech was pure gasoline on the flames of white extremism. While much of it sounded like incomprehensible and presumably improvised gibberish, the speech also included the trademark pseudo-intellectualism of his former speechwriter Stephen Miller, with the latter's mastery of white supremacist talking points.

The most disturbing element was Trump's calculated and deliberately vague promise that Democrats plan to "get rid of" certain people, dog-whistling a meme that has been spreading on far-right social media called "Ten Stages of Genocide," which implies that liberals are plotting to exterminate Trump supporters. Trump began his presidency persecuting Mexicans, Muslims and Central Americans while conjuring false visions of their violence to justify that persecution, then expanded to target Black Lives Matter protesters and anti-fascists with the same strategy. Trump is now making it clear that if he returns to office he will be going after all liberals and encouraging his supporters to do the same.

He is inciting political persecution against his critics by promoting delusions of persecution among his armed, white supremacist, violence-loving base. It can be tempting to write off white grievance politics as a joke, but as Trump's own DHS acknowledged, it remains among the top threats to homeland security, as embodied in conspiracy theories about white genocide that Trump is openly embracing.

Trump's claim that "woke politics takes the life and joy out of everything" speaks to the fact that his happiness appears to hinge on the ability to freely scapegoat and persecute others without accountability. We can't be complacent about the threat that Donald Trump continues to represent to democracy and the American people's collective grip on reality.

Jason Stanley is a professor of philosophy at Yale University, and author of "How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them" and "How Propaganda Works."

Trump's speech in Arizona brilliantly structured the themes in American politics that are gradually coming into greater clarity as a fascist social and political movement centering on Trump as leader. In fascist ideology, communists are supposedly seeking to destroy the nation by opening the borders to immigrants who will dilute the majority population and give power to ethnic and sexual minorities (currently, transgender persons are the most vilified by the far right worldwide, and Trump's speech was no exception). Fascism requires minorities to vilify to create panic and fear among the dominant majority. The fascist leader represents himself as the nation's savior and only hope against these threats. In the case of the United States, fascist ideology has always taken the form of exaggerating threats to the dominant white Christian population. The fascist leader presents the options as total loyalty to him or subservience to the communist agenda. All of these fascist themes were front and center in Trump's speech.

The Democrats are supposedly controlled by communists and are letting crime and nonwhite immigration run rampant. Cities run by Democrats, such as New York and Chicago, are "worse than any war zone in the world"; "it's a crime wave the likes of which we've never seen before." The Biden administration is controlled by "the extreme left" and nepotistic and corrupt. Immigration is supposedly out of control. The themes of white supremacy are front and center here ("they're coming in from Yemen. They're coming in from all over the Middle East. They're coming in from Haiti. Large numbers are coming in from Haiti. They're coming in from all parts of Africa."). The communists with their "critical race theory" are threatening our children at their most vulnerable, in schools. And most of all, of course, there was fascist projection — the "big lie" was not that the election was stolen, it was that the election was fair.

In reality, of course, the election was fair. New York City in July had one of its lowest homicide rates in history. Violent crime is not sharply up, and certainly not high given historical trends. None of this relevant in Trump's world, where loyalty to his version of reality is the only possible way of expressing American patriotism. This is fascism in its pure ideological form.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-s-vengeful-and-sadistic/

Offline Joe Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1656
Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4178 on: August 13, 2021, 03:17:58 AM »

Donald Trump is a loser. Several of his handpicked stooges he endorsed have lost their races and this is just another one. This loser lost the election in a blowout and his sycophants think he will run in 2024 when he is even less popular in the GOP.  :D

Trump's big Texas loss sent 'shockwaves through the former president's inner circle': report



Since the November 2000 election, Trump backed candidates have not done too well. I think this is something the Republican leadership is ignoring, hoping this is all just a fluke, but I think it reflects the new reality. In any case, they have gone too far to turn back now.

Losing the two elections for the U. S. Senate in January, 2021, Losing other elections. A recent election that bucks the trend was Mike Carey winning a primary in Ohio. But that may have more to do with Trump funneling in a massive amount of cash more than Carey receiving Trump’s endorsement.

I think it is likely that by November of 2022, the new reality will become undeniable. Trump has his fervent supporters, can still raise a huge amount of cash, but whose endorsement will hurt a candidate in a general election. Trump has lost the ‘Rhinos’, whom he has disparaged but always needed to win. I am looking forward to that month.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4178 on: August 13, 2021, 03:17:58 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1656
Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4179 on: August 17, 2021, 03:59:30 AM »
RNC quietly deletes webpage touting Trump's call for U.S. troops to withdraw from Afghanistan

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rnc-quietly-deletes-webpage-touting-trump-s-call-for-u-s-troops-to-withdraw-from-afghanistan/ar-AANo5Wg?ocid=msedgntp

Well, it appears that some information about Trump has disappeared down a memory hole.

I think if we had just stayed in Afghanistan another 20 years, the Afghanistan army would have been capable on holding on entirely on its own for two, perhaps three months. As it is, they were not able to stand very long.

It just goes to show that you never know how long an army will stand. No one knows, not even the members of the army know how long they will stand once the fighting starts. This is not the first time in history that a people were willing to fight much harder for tyranny than freedom, particularly since the “freedom” of Afghanistan was pretty corrupt.

Getting out was our best option. Should we have gone to Afghanistan in the first place? Well, unlike Iraq, they did attack us. Not directly but through proxies from that they protected.

Offline Jon Banks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4180 on: August 17, 2021, 05:38:00 PM »
RNC quietly deletes webpage touting Trump's call for U.S. troops to withdraw from Afghanistan

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rnc-quietly-deletes-webpage-touting-trump-s-call-for-u-s-troops-to-withdraw-from-afghanistan/ar-AANo5Wg?ocid=msedgntp

Well, it appears that some information about Trump has disappeared down a memory hole.

I think if we had just stayed in Afghanistan another 20 years, the Afghanistan army would have been capable on holding on entirely on its own for two, perhaps three months. As it is, they were not able to stand very long.

It just goes to show that you never know how long an army will stand. No one knows, not even the members of the army know how long they will stand once the fighting starts. This is not the first time in history that a people were willing to fight much harder for tyranny than freedom, particularly since the “freedom” of Afghanistan was pretty corrupt.

Getting out was our best option. Should we have gone to Afghanistan in the first place? Well, unlike Iraq, they did attack us. Not directly but through proxies from that they protected.

I mostly agree but the Taliban didn't attack us on 9/11/01.

We should've focused on getting OBL and avoided the nation-building crap.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4180 on: August 17, 2021, 05:38:00 PM »


Offline Joe Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1656
Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4181 on: August 19, 2021, 12:54:41 AM »
I mostly agree but the Taliban didn't attack us on 9/11/01.

We should've focused on getting OBL and avoided the nation-building crap.

Agreed. As soon as OBL was dead, it would have been a good time to pull out within a year.

Well, I guess we will wait for the other shoe to drop. Iraq. We should never have gone into there in 2002. After we redraw, how long will it hold out?

I should mention that nation-building does not always fail. It worked in Germany and Japan. Despite the recent past of the 1930’s and 1940’s, both countries had a history of democracy before the Nazis and the Japanese military took over. In Germany, first the Kaiser was able to stifle it, then Hitler really stifled it, but the desire for democracy was still there among millions, at least after dictatorships had so thoroughly failed. But any country without a strong desire for freedom and democracy among their people, forget it.

Offline Jon Banks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1205
Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4182 on: August 19, 2021, 02:44:23 AM »
Agreed. As soon as OBL was dead, it would have been a good time to pull out within a year.

Well, I guess we will wait for the other shoe to drop. Iraq. We should never have gone into there in 2002. After we redraw, how long will it hold out?

I should mention that nation-building does not always fail. It worked in Germany and Japan. Despite the recent past of the 1930’s and 1940’s, both countries had a history of democracy before the Nazis and the Japanese military took over. In Germany, first the Kaiser was able to stifle it, then Hitler really stifled it, but the desire for democracy was still there among millions, at least after dictatorships had so thoroughly failed. But any country without a strong desire for freedom and democracy among their people, forget it.

We did great with post-WWII Europe, Japan, and South Korea. But since the 1950s, the successful long-term military engagements have been few and far between.

Afghanistan is called "the graveyard of Empires" for a reason. Even the British failed there and their record for nation-building is much better than ours. 

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4182 on: August 19, 2021, 02:44:23 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1656
Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4183 on: August 20, 2021, 04:33:07 AM »
Newly uncovered video delays Capitol rioter's sentencing

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/newly-uncovered-video-delays-capitol-rioter-s-sentencing/vi-AANvRXj?ocid=msedgntp

Hurrah for the ‘Sedition Hunters’. You guys rock!