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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 290522 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3328 on: January 14, 2021, 05:51:24 PM »
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You don't much sense in your rhetorical posts.   You would make a really good LHO.   So it is okay to allow ANTIFA or BLM or Ayatollah Khamenei to post uncensored hate speech unhindered including a call to incite violence.   At the same time you censor the call for election integrity as a violent threat and harmful disinformation when you want to make sure your vote counts.  Sure does look unbiased and without agenda!  The NYPost makes a credible newspaper article about Hunter Biden's laptop pre-election and they are censored for it - no  freedom of press.  In that case it was called "harmful disinformation"!  Basement Joe has never denied any of it and refuses to make even a comment on it because it could be used against him.  It is not denied as false but rather part of a Russian disinformation campaign - plausible deniability - never forced to make a statement!   The most honest POTUS you would ever want! 

https://nypost.com/2020/07/30/twitter-execs-refused-request-to-remove-ayatollah-khamenei-tweets/

Again, You must love BigTech Facebook, Microsoft, Twitter, Google, Amazon and Apple as they are controlling the social space and what the peasants are allowed to see and their unbiased and unabashed censoring!   This power should be taken out of the hands of the plutocrats.   The censorship that took place prior to and after elections proves that the country is on the wrong path and 1st amendment has been replaced by MSM propaganda.  This is what Communism did for their countries - take the blinders off Rick.  The country is in trouble big time.   The Chinese are laughing and happily push America on the path to destruction where there are no morals, values and ethics and soon will collapse and be replaced by a new form of world government.  RIP

So it is okay to allow ANTIFA or BLM or Ayatollah Khamenei to post uncensored hate speech unhindered including a call to incite violence.   

Hate speech has always existed and is all over the internet and pretty easy to spot. I don't like it one bit, but I will defend anybody's right to vent their hatred, as long as it doesn't incite violence. As soon as it incites any kind of violence it is no longer covered by freedom of speech

At the same time you censor the call for election integrity as a violent threat and harmful disinformation when you want to make sure your vote counts.

Stop spinning it. It wasn't a call for election intergrity; it was spreading a massive lie about unproven voter fraud that never happened which ultimately resulted in clear incitement of violence. Telling deliberate lies and falsely accusing people of something they did not do is not covered by freedom of speech.

The NYPost makes a credible newspaper article about Hunter Biden's laptop pre-election and they are censored for it - no  freedom of press.  In that case it was called "harmful disinformation"!  Basement Joe has never denied any of it and refuses to make even a comment on it because it could be used against him.

That the NYPost wrote a credible article remains to be seen. None of it's allegations have been proven and they were clearly positing it to influence the election. That's the definition of harmful disinformation. Joe Biden did not have to deny it. The Post had to prove that the allegations were true and failed to do so. If you want freedom of speech to mean that anybody can make up false stories about other people, for the purpose of doing damage to those people, than you will be in for a wild ride.

Again, You must love BigTech Facebook, Microsoft, Twitter, Google, Amazon and Apple as they are controlling the social space and what the peasants are allowed to see and their unbiased and unabashed censoring!   This power should be taken out of the hands of the plutocrats. 

Stop dreaming. Act against these companies and they will move out of the USA and continue. Block them and be accused of censorship. They are private companies who have their own rules which they are allowed to enforce. They throw people of their platform on a daily basis for misbehavior. Trump is no exception. If he wants to use their service, he should abide by the rules, just like everybody else. Being President doesn't give him the right to use their platforms to spread lies 24/7. If you ask me, they should have acted sooner.

The censorship that took place prior to and after elections proves that the country is on the wrong path and 1st amendment has been replaced by MSM propaganda.

There was no censorship prior or after the elections. They just stopped a bunch of people from spreading lies. Freedom of speech is not unlimited. When you say things that are not true and are only said to harm others, you are crossing the line. Period.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3328 on: January 14, 2021, 05:51:24 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3329 on: January 14, 2021, 06:09:45 PM »
The NYPost makes a credible newspaper article about Hunter Biden's laptop pre-election and they are censored for it - no  freedom of press.

They printed and distributed their story -- there was no censorship.  Their tabloid trash was far from "credible" though.

Offline Allan Fritzke

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3330 on: January 14, 2021, 06:46:07 PM »
Bull.  There was nothing "unfair", "questionable", or "unverifiable" about the results.

This may be kinder and gentler than Trump's insurrectionist claims of fraud, but it's just as wrong.

I still quote the federal constitution as the mainstay of how elections should be handled, senate, representative or president.   There is a procedure to be followed to amend the "manner" in which elections are to be held.  Would manner include allowing/disallowing mail-in votes, changing deadlines for receiving and the like? 

Quote
Clause 1
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

In the case of Georgia (or any other state for that matteR), it does not say it is to be decided by Raffensperger and Abrams behind close doors in a mutually agreeable fashion and then have it ruled on by a judge or state or federal court system - even if it was your sister or associate.  The constitution said there are 2 ways to change the "manner" of elections not 3.  The new precedent throws that one out the window or stretches the meaning of "the legislature"!

1) You need to bring it before the legislature and have procedures and manners decided.
2) You can go federally and  do it with congress
3) There are no other options, See rule 1 & 2!

Yes, it very "questionable" when you evoke special privilege due to COVID and use that to extend voter ballot deadlines, allow mail-in ballots and whatever other "manner" you decide you want to make.  That sets a precedent and with no SCOTUS ruling,  anyone can change rules as long as the judges in power okay it and 2 parties agree.

What is the generally accepted definition of legislature?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_state_legislatures

Quote
Each state in the United States has a legislature as part of its form of civil government. Most of the fundamental details of the legislature are specified in the state constitution. With the exception of Nebraska, all state legislatures are bicameral bodies, composed of a lower house (Assembly, General Assembly, State Assembly, House of Delegates, or House of Representatives) and an upper house (Senate)

That is a constitutional interpretation which the SCOTUS refused to clarify.   Does the manner of election decided for Senators and Representatives by the Legislature also apply to the Presidential election, often on the same ballot?  Common sense would dictate that it does!  Yes every state can change its rules, but there is a procedure follow.


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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3330 on: January 14, 2021, 06:46:07 PM »


Offline Allan Fritzke

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3331 on: January 14, 2021, 06:52:02 PM »
They printed and distributed their story -- there was no censorship.  Their tabloid trash was far from "credible" though.

Please don't distort.  Was it not censored by Big Tech and not allowed for millions of potential voters to see on their sites?   Is it okay to run a politically biased Democratic platform and call that Free Speech?   That is influencing elections which is illegal.  The government should ban all these platforms and allow no opinions to be shared - either side?     Why not allow people to speak and then allows others to rebuttal.  Just like we are doing here!  Do the peasants need protection from forming their own opinions and deciding fake news for themselves?   That is real free speech.

Even LHO was allowed free speech and to distribute Cuban pamphlets.  That being said, should the President have been protected from the likes of him as well.  If he was thrown in jail, the violence that ensued in that scenario apparently would have never have happened as he was in jail.  There is lots to say.  After countless of your own people die in a war (58,000 in Viet Nam war for example) maybe the leader in charge should be held accountable and thrown in jail for his deeds when he wasn't triumphant!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 06:59:14 PM by Allan Fritzke »

Offline Allan Fritzke

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3332 on: January 14, 2021, 07:17:37 PM »

Hate speech has always existed and is all over the internet and pretty easy to spot. I don't like it one bit, but I will defend anybody's right to vent their hatred, as long as it doesn't incite violence. As soon as it incites any kind of violence it is no longer covered by freedom of speech

At the same time you censor the call for election integrity as a violent threat and harmful disinformation when you want to make sure your vote counts.

Stop spinning it. It wasn't a call for election intergrity; it was spreading a massive lie about unproven voter fraud that never happened which ultimately resulted in clear incitement of violence. Telling deliberate lies and falsely accusing people of something they did not do is not covered by freedom of speech.

The NYPost makes a credible newspaper article about Hunter Biden's laptop pre-election and they are censored for it - no  freedom of press.  In that case it was called "harmful disinformation"!  Basement Joe has never denied any of it and refuses to make even a comment on it because it could be used against him.

That the NYPost wrote a credible article remains to be seen. None of it's allegations have been proven and they were clearly positing it to influence the election. That's the definition of harmful disinformation. Joe Biden did not have to deny it. The Post had to prove that the allegations were true and failed to do so. If you want freedom of speech to mean that anybody can make up false stories about other people, for the purpose of doing damage to those people, than you will be in for a wild ride.

There was no censorship prior or after the elections. They just stopped a bunch of people from spreading lies. Freedom of speech is not unlimited. When you say things that are not true and are only said to harm others, you are crossing the line. Period.

It would nice if Basement Joe would just come out and deny it.   You certainly have made your point about inciting violence.  It is okay for Madonna to want to blow up the Whitehouse or someone holding up a cutoff President's head or saying when was a last time a President has been shot and draw graphic pictures.  Or what Nancy Pelosi said (a few posts ago I pointed out along with others!):
Quote
I just don’t know why there aren’t more uprisings all over the country and maybe there will be.
That doesn't incite violence?  It is still on the internet - never banned.   I guess not!!!!!

If the President calls for a march in Washington, that  is grounds for inciting violence.   There are lots of court signed document where the person or persons allegate issues in the election go unreported and not investigated by media.  It used to be the MSM were called upon to be the people's voice and investigate and call politicians on their lies and falsehood.  That is no longer case as they are one sided and biased.

It makes me wonder what they will report on when their hero is elected and there is nothing to report on anymore!

Here is a signed court document - read it!  Did anyone listen to it or report it the public - too dangerous to examine election integrity!  Oh well the country will be finished soon at this rate.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 07:22:24 PM by Allan Fritzke »

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3332 on: January 14, 2021, 07:17:37 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3333 on: January 14, 2021, 07:34:51 PM »
I still quote the federal constitution as the mainstay of how elections should be handled, senate, representative or president.   There is a procedure to be followed to amend the "manner" in which elections are to be held.  Would manner include allowing/disallowing mail-in votes, changing deadlines for receiving and the like? 

It's up to each state to decide.  The federal government constitutionally has zero role.

Why does extending voter deadlines make any election results "unfair", "questionable", or "unverifiable"?

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3334 on: January 14, 2021, 07:38:11 PM »
Please don't distort.  Was it not censored by Big Tech and not allowed for millions of potential voters to see on their sites?

That's not censorship any more than it is when Duncan edits out posts that violate his rules.

Republicans:  No government interference with private business -- let the free market decide

Also Republicans:  How dare this private business kick me off?

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3334 on: January 14, 2021, 07:38:11 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3335 on: January 14, 2021, 07:41:08 PM »
It would nice if Basement Joe would just come out and deny it.   You certainly have made your point about inciting violence.  It is okay for Madonna to want to blow up the Whitehouse or someone holding up a cutoff President's head or saying when was a last time a President has been shot and draw graphic pictures.  Or what Nancy Pelosi said (a few posts ago I pointed out along with others!):That doesn't incite violence?  It is still on the internet - never banned.   I guess not!!!!!

If the President calls for a march in Washington, that  is grounds for inciting violence.   There are lots of court signed document where the person or persons allegate issues in the election go unreported and not investigated by media.  It used to be the MSM were called upon to be the people's voice and investigate and call politicians on their lies and falsehood.  That is no longer case as they are one sided and biased.

It makes me wonder what they will report on when their hero is elected and there is nothing to report on anymore!

Here is a signed court document - read it!  Did anyone listen to it or report it the public - too dangerous to examine election integrity!  Oh well the country will be finished soon at this rate.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.19.pdf

You are aware that a lot of what is in that court document has been debunked over and over again, right?

Foxnews and Newsmax didn't know how quickly to put as much distance between themselves and the false claims about Dominion once they were facing legal action.

Btw, what you want is not Freedom of Speech. You want extreme right wing nuts to be able to say whatever they like. There is a difference.