Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2


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Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5672 on: August 09, 2022, 07:00:11 AM »
'This looks nefarious': CNN's Dana Bash says Trump's document toilet flushing is clearly 'not legal'



CNN's Dana Bash on Monday said that former President Donald Trump could face further legal scrutiny over new photos that back up claims that he regularly flushed presidential records down the toilet.

Reacting to a report from Axios about photos of flushed documents provided by New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman, Bash said that such actions would clearly break laws regarding the preservation of presidential records.

"It's not legal," she said. "I mean, there is a law that is in place since the era post-Nixon that you have to preserve presidential records -- that is the people who work in the White House and the man who was elected to the White House. And that is the rule. Which is why you have seen reporting from Maggie and others, the then-president had a habit of ripping things up and throwing them in the trash."

She then said she could think of few reasonable justifications for flushing the documents.

"This looks nefarious," she said. "We don't know the specifics. I don't know if we're going to get to the bottom of what exactly was in there, because you're going to have to have the former president cop to it. There's no indication that is something he would do."

Nonetheless, Bash said the photos provided compelling evidence that they were authentic White House documents.

"It's a sharpie and it looks like Donald Trump's handwriting," she said of the torn-up documents photographed in the toilet.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5672 on: August 09, 2022, 07:00:11 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5673 on: August 09, 2022, 09:29:03 AM »
'I'd be advising my client to tell their family I'm looking at jail time': Mueller prosecutor on the FBI's Trump raid



Former Justice Department prosecutor Andrew Weissmann, who worked on special counsel Robert Mueller's team, explained on MSNBC that if he was advising a client facing what former President Donald Trump is, there would be a strong warning.

"If I were Donald Trump's lawyer right now, thank God I'm not, I would be advising my client to be telling [their] family, 'I am looking at jail time, and we should make plans accordingly.'"

After House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) threatened Attorney General Merrick Garland, Weissmann said that he should just keep his head down and keep doing his job.

"That is such a palpably false statement, the comment from Mr. McCarthy that he is seen enough," said Weissmann. "One of the things that none of us has seen is the warrant, an application to the court. It's very important to remember this was not a break-in, this was not a raid, this was not the attorney general of the United States deciding willy-nilly on his own that he was going to do the search. A court had to approve the search here based on, as you point out Lawrence, evidence. The evidence had to show that there was probable cause of a crime. That is the way our judicial system works, and that is what happened here."

While McCarthy may want to hold a public hearing of Garland and demand documents, what the Republicans might ultimately end up doing is drawing additional attention to what Trump stole or attempted to destroy.

"I think the thing that I found the most remarkable and I think it's really worth people really taking a step back, is this does mean the attorney general of the United States did not trust the former president to simply produce the documents voluntarily pursuant to a subpoena," said Weissmann. "And it was necessary to go via search warrant. Normally, you think that if you order a subpoena to any reputable person they will produce documents. When you issue and obtain a search warrant, it is because you do not trust that the person will actually produce the documents. That means if they had to have evidence of that that led Merrick Garland to take this step. It was bold but certainly approved by the courts."

He went on to joke that the irony is that, all of the sudden, Kevin McCarthy cares about document preservation.

"The Trump administration pioneered all these different ways of doing it from flushing it down the toilet, to burning it in the White House fireplace," recalled Weissmann. "Points for creativity, but, all in all, I don't think I expect a statement from the Justice Department about [McCarthy's threats]."

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Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5674 on: August 09, 2022, 09:46:17 AM »
Legal expert slams Trump allies for pushing 'empty political promise' to undo his Wisconsin loss



On Monday's edition of MSNBC's "Deadline: White House," former solicitor general Neal Katyal discussed the latest push by former President Donald Trump and his allies to "decertify" President Joe Biden's 2020 win of the state of Wisconsin.

The premise, which is a core dispute as Wisconsin GOP voters decide the gubernatorial primary, makes no sense, argued Katyal.

"I can't help but think that if you watch these events unfold in our politics and you think to yourself that there could be some kind of a way to, like, decertify these arguments, like just kind of a priori, they should be knocked out of our politics," said anchor John Heilemann. "This is not a question of opinion or where you stand on public policy. This is not a doable thing. Why are we discussing it in any context right now in the state of Wisconsin?"

"I completely agree," said Katyal. "This Wisconsin primary is a really good illustration of how Trump and the Republican Party have succeeded in normalizing a brand of basically post-truth politics that allows them to blow off facts that they find inconvenient. And so, you say, there should be some way to decertify these claims, and there is. 62 different courts, federal and state, including the U.S. Supreme Court, which is not exactly in Joe Biden's pocket, ruled against them time and time again. And so, the — what the Trump people are saying is, well, look, the Wisconsin Supreme Court, which is quite a — it's a very conservative court, in July, said that the drop boxes that were used in the 2020 election were illegal, and these were the drop boxes that were used during the COVID pandemic. And the result of this, they say, is, well, let's throw out the hundreds of thousands of people who voted that way."

That idea, said Katyal, is "an unconscionable argument."

"In elections law, the touchstone is always trying to give effect to the will of the voters, and they just want to toss out all these ballots," said Katyal. "Now, that's something that might work in, like, the Soviet Union, but it's as profoundly un-American as you can get ... even if it were right, there's no backsies here. There's no way to get a redo and do the election again. You know this is basically an empty political process by these people in Wisconsin. There's no mechanism whatsoever to take back the certification. These promises are literally ones that these candidates cannot keep, which takes, I guess, election politics to a whole other level."

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Nicolle Wallace comes off of vacation break to explain how Republicans will respond to Trump raid

Nicolle Wallace, who previously worked in George W. Bush's White House, was asked how the GOP will likely respond to the news that Trump removed 15 boxes of documents from the White House that were supposed to be sent to the National Archives.

She cited Steven Ayers, a former supporter of President Donald Trump who appeared before the House Select Committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack and the attempt to overthrow the 2020 election. After following Trump, Ayers was charged with crimes and made it clear that he felt manipulated.

"He's an insurrectionist turned January 6 select committee public witness who I think was an important window into how brazenly Trump and his media allies, people like Tucker Carlson, feed lies to the base," said Wallace. "But I would hope some of the people who may be on the fence in that endeavor would look like at Bill Barr, you know, defying and laughing and making a mockery out of Trump's lies and nonsense, calling them BS, over and over again."

Wallace went on to explain that while there might be a number of things that are political that Trump could be attacked over, the destruction of documents or stealing of classified information is something that is the least of them.

"Everyone close to Trump knows he's a liar," she explained. "They're acutely aware of his penchant for mishandling classified information. Trump has been mishandling classified information and you covered it at the time since [Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei] Lavrov wormed his way back into the Oval Office in 2017. I believe the National Security Advisor was either witness to it or tried to stop it or stem it. But if that is the crime for which there was probable cause to seek a search warrant, then we have our first window into how potential crimes by the ex-president are viewed by this Justice Department."

She went on to say that there is a "tsunami of questions" that "far outweigh the revelations on a night like tonight."

"We may just be learning the very first things we will know from now forward. As your first words tonight made clear, we've never done this before, but we may be learning the very first things there to know about how Merrick Garland and Lisa Monaco view potential crimes committed by an ex-American president," said Wallace.

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'It's never good': Michael Cohen responds to revelations Trump was raided by FBI



Former President Donald Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen was the unfortunate target of the Republican leader's attacks and retaliation, but on Monday evening he learned that his former client was falling under a raid of his own.

It was reported Monday evening that Trump's home at Mar-a-Lago was under a raid from the FBI. Trump even released in a statement, "they even broke into my safe."

"It’s never good when the FBI raids your property; especially when you’re Donald Trump and you’ve been storing documents at that location," Cohen said.

Cohen was referencing the report on Monday that there are photos of documents that Trump tore apart and threw in the toilet. There were previous reports that Trump attempted to destroy documents by flushing them, causing serious plumbing issues at the White House.

Several months ago, staff from the National Archives were forced to go to Mar-a-Lago and retrieve a truckload of boxes filled with documents that Trump took from the White House when he left. It was revealed that some of the documents were so top secret that they were for the president's eyes only.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5674 on: August 09, 2022, 09:46:17 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5675 on: August 09, 2022, 09:59:29 AM »
If Trump is convicted of destruction of documents he is barred from the presidency: legal experts



Former federal prosecutor Harry Litman and Democratic elections lawyer Marc Elias both noted that if the reports are true that the decisions behind the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago has to do with the documents he took from the White House, it would be a crime that, if he was convicted, could bar the former president from ever holding office again.

"This, is by far, not one of the biggest crimes he's been charged with, but, it carries the penalty, that someone who is convicted of it is disqualified from running for future federal office," said Litman. "So, 18 USC 2071, if you destroyed records, when they came and talk to him a few months ago, and carted stuff away. Much of it was documents that have been ripped up. You had, just today, pictures of them stuffing things down the toilet. They may have decided to go after this, disqualify him from future office, secure a conviction, and have that be the broad resolution of the whole problem of Trump. That, in any event, it's huge, but this feature of it that he couldn't run for office in the future is really an enormous aspect of it."

Elias made the same point, saying that the media is missing the big reason why the raid is important. He showed a screen capture of the code that Litman cited, that mentions "concealment, removal, or mutilation generally" of documents. It goes on to proclaim that anyone convicted "shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States."

"Yes, I recognize the legal challenge that application of this law to a president would garner (Since qualifications are set in Constitution). But the idea that a candidate would have to litigate this during a campaign is in my view a 'blockbuster in American politics,'" said Elias.

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Time to negotiate is 'long gone': Former official explains why the FBI raided Trump



Former FBI official Frank Figliuzzi walked MSNBC viewers through what the Miami Field Office had to do to execute today's search warrant on Mar-a-Lago.

"High degree of certainty that it is related to the national archives documents," he told MSNBC.

"So, Jason, yeah, not only did I spend 25 years in the FBI but I spent a significant portion of it in the Miami field office which is responsible, of course, for West Palm Beach and the Mar-a-Lago location," explained Figliuzzi. "So, look, not a lot of time right now for internal intersection going on in the Miami field office and/or any other agents from other field offices that came in but rather let's do this job right. They clearly understand the public scrutiny that will be involved. The gravity of the situation and, of course, what's coming next, which will be endless rhetoric from Donald Trump about how horrible the FBI is and how this is a targeted fishing expedition. What we don't know, of course, is really what the substance of this is."

He went on to say that if it was connected to Jan. 6 it is unclear. However, the New York Times and CNN have sources confirming that the raid focused on the National Archives documents. Figiluzzi also confirmed it with as much certainty as he could.

"If you want, if you haven't done this already, to just walk through the process of a federal agent obtaining a search warrant," he continued. "If you want to just go through that and what it means and what it doesn't mean so it simply means that the agents decided and, of course, at this level when you're talking about a former president, this will be cleared at the highest level of the FBI, U.S. Department of Justice and likely crossed the desk of the attorney general of the United States and you have to go to a United States magistrate with a prosecutor and assistant U.S. Attorney and say, 'we have evidence, probable cause, that a federal crime has been violated, and, number two, that evidence of that crime is located in the location we wish to search.' That's the big one, right?"

The magistrate or judge would then look at that and decide how they would move forward.

"Imagine the federal judge or magistrate that may have gotten out of bed this morning," said Figliuzzi. "I've done that before, right, and he's reading through a lengthy affidavit, and he's got to like have his coffee or her coffee and go through it and say holy cow, that's Mar-a-Lago."

He explained the irony of Trump attacking former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for her treatment of classified emails. But when he had explicitly top-secret and classified documents, he paraded them around from the White House to Mar-a-Lago.

"I understand he's out of town, maybe he will have his aides try to do something. But rest assured, they will keep the site secure and free from anyone tampering with what they are doing," said Figliuzzi. "No one will be allowed to destroy any evidence. That won't happen."

He went on to confirm, "I have a medium to high degree of certainty that this at least is focused in part on national archives case...The time to negotiate and turn everything over is long gone, and now we've reached the point where agents are convincing a judge that they have evidence of a crime."

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Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5676 on: August 09, 2022, 09:54:19 PM »
Trump 'panicked' after FBI showed up at Mar-a-Lago because he never believed they would do it: Mary Trump



Appearing on MSNBC hours after the FBI showed up at Mar-a-Lago with a warrant, and Donald Trump issued a furious statement protesting his innocence, his niece Mary Trump said she saw evidence of panic in his response.

Speaking with host Lawrence O'Donnell, the niece was asked if her uncle was going to sleep well after the raid.

"This kind of thing couldn't have happened without his lawyers knowing," the MSNBNC hosts prompted. "There were plenty of hints."

"They're not really breaking in, they're just doing their job," she first said of the FBI agents before noting that her uncle is "Panicked."

"This is just an example, in a very long line of examples, of Donald's narcissism and sense of entitlement," she continued. "He may have known it was coming but he could not possibly believe it was coming because it never has."

"How is your uncle going to sleep tonight,?" the MSNBC host asked.

"You know, probably as well as he always sleeps," the smiling Mary Trump answered. "Which is to say, not well. Because, you know, there are so many things dogging him in the last many years. He was in New York today because he needs to sit for a deposition in another case. So it is all coming sort of fast and furious."

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Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5677 on: August 10, 2022, 12:32:27 AM »
BREAKING: Republican U.S. Rep. Scott Perry (PA), deeply involved in post 2020-election attempts to overturn the results, says the FBI has *seized his cell phone* pursuant to a search warrant this afternoon.

The DoJ has executed a search warrant on Republican member of Congress Scott Perry, confiscating his phone. Perry asked for a pardon for 1/6 and Mark Meadows was seen burning documents after meeting with Perry. This is moving fast. You don't ask for a presidential pardon unless you're guilty of a crime.

Trump ally's cellphone nabbed by FBI agents in new search warrant: report



One day after the FBI executed a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago, federal agents have executed a search warrant on a GOP member of Congress at the center of the Jan. 6 investigations.

"This morning, while traveling with my family, 3 FBI agents visited me and seized my cell phone," Rep. Scott Perry (R-PA) exclusively told Fox News.

"They made no attempt to contact my lawyer, who would have made arrangements for them to have my phone if that was their wish," he claimed, even though prosecutors usually prefer that subpoena route unless they fear the evidence could be destroyed or not turned over.

"I’m outraged — though not surprised — that the FBI under the direction of Merrick Garland’s DOJ, would seize the phone of a sitting member of Congress," Perry complained.

While Trump's search warrant was reportedly about alleged mishandling of classified information and public documents, Perry's search may be related to Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

When Perry was subpoenaed by the House select committee in December, Chairman Bennie Thompson (D-MS) wrote that they were searching for information on the effort to install former Department of Justice official Jeffrey Clark as acting Attorney General.

“We have received evidence from multiple witnesses that you had an important role in the efforts to install Mr. Clark as acting Attorney General," Thompson wrote. "Acting Attorney General Rosen and acting Deputy Attorney General Donoghue have provided evidence regarding these issues, and we have received evidence that others who worked with Mr. Clark were aware of these plans. We are also aware that you had multiple text and other communications with President Trump’s former Chief of Staff regarding Mr. Clark—and we also have evidence indicating that in that time frame you sent communications to the former Chief of Staff using the encrypted Signal app. Mr. Clark has informed us that he plans to invoke his 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination in anticipation of a deposition to be conducted by the Committee. When Mr. Clark decided to invoke his 5th Amendment rights, he understood that we planned to pose questions addressing his interactions with you, among a host of other topics."

“In addition, we have information indicating that you communicated at various relevant times with the White House and others involved in other relevant topics, including regarding allegations that the Dominion voting machines had been corrupted," Thompson added.

AFP

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5677 on: August 10, 2022, 12:32:27 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5678 on: August 10, 2022, 09:27:06 AM »
Eric Trump might have accidentally revealed key details about his father’s case



Hours after Donald Trump said that the FBI had "raided" his Mar-a-Lago home on Monday, his middle son told Fox News host Sean Hannity that the former president had been working with federal authorities for months.

"The purpose for the raid from what they said was because the National Archives wanted to, you know, corroborate whether or not Donald Trump had any documents in his possession," Eric Trump told Hannity. "And my father has worked so collaboratively with them for months. In fact, the lawyer that’s been working on this was totally shocked."

On Tuesday, CNN pundits explained the significance of his remarks.

"The last part from Eric Trump, he said his father has worked with them collaboratively for months," said CNN host John King. "This dispute goes back to a couple months after Trump left office, back to May of 2021. A little more than a month ago, you had agents at Mar-a-Lago, they were trying to get documents back. What got to the point after months and months of trying to negotiate this, that the FBI decided we are at an impasse, we need a search warrant?"

Crime and Justice reporter Katelyn Polanz explained that these were all documents in the president's possession after he left office and while he was living at Mar-a-Lago.

"What's interesting is we have talked before about 15 boxes at Mar-a-Lago," she began. "Those boxes as far as we know, those were recovered previously by the National Archives and then subpoenaed by the Justice Department as part of this same criminal probe, if it is the one that Eric Trump is referring to there. So, those documents now, they already had in their possession, and at some point, they realized in that June meeting that there was more there. It appears they were shown by the Trump lawyers on site, there are things here. And the Justice Department came back and said, 'Keep those secure.' We just don't know what happened after that. If they came back and said again, you know, we want to come in. Or if this was a total surprise to everyone and they were just really taken off guard."

King speculated that if the FBI had a back-and-forth between Trump and his legal team, it would mean Trump was refusing to hand over the information and the FBI was forced to run it up the chain of command and have the top people agree that a warrant was necessary.

Preet Bharara, the former U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of New York, explained that to be able to prove there was probable cause the agents would have to show evidence that a crime was being committed.

"They must have some close witness who can show the judge in an affidavit that the documents are still there, that there's evidence of misconduct up to and including the former president of the United States," he explained. "You don't take this kind of action lightly."

CNN reporter Kaitlin Collins questioned what wasn't handed over to the National Archives when they went to Mar-a-Lago with a truck and took documents away.

"The president's attorneys showed investigators several months ago at Mar-a-Lago where the documents were being stored," said Collins. "It was in the basement of Mar-a-Lago. They took them down there. I'm told the investigators looked around the room and left. They did not take the boxes with them, we believe. The big question on that is once they left and sent this letter asking them to further secure the documents, which is when I'm told aides to Trump put a padlock on the door. What happened there? That's where this big black hole is. In those two months that transpired since then and what Preet and others are saying is obviously you don't take a step like this lightly with a former president. That's why it's raising questions."

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Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5679 on: August 10, 2022, 09:41:15 AM »
Key detail undermines argument Trump declassified documents found at Mar-a-Lago



One day after agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation executed a search warrant at Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort, three leading legal experts debunked the legal defense that Trump had declassified the documents found.

Writing for Just Security, former FBI Special Agent Asha Rangappa, Obama White House ethics czar Norman L. Eisen and national security attorney Bradley P. Moss, examined five violations of federal law Trump may have committed in this case.

The three attorneys first examined 18 U.S.C. 1924, "Unauthorized Removal and Retention of Classified Documents or Material."

"Since reporting indicates that the documents the agents were searching for included classified ones, this statute appears at first glance to be an obvious possible violation. Section 1924 makes it a crime to knowingly remove classified documents with the intent to retain them in an unauthorized location," they wrote.

They noted former Trump staffer Kash Patel has claimed many of the records were declassified by Trump.

Eisen, who helped draft White House Executive Order 13526, which restructured the classification system, examined that defense with his colleagues.

"Strictly speaking, even if Trump ordered the declassification of the records (verbally or in writing), what is likely to matter for purposes of handling and storing the records after he left the White House was if the mandatory follow-on actions occurred. Classified documents have classification markings in the header and footer of each page, indicating the level of classification for the document as a whole," they noted. "If Trump did in fact order the declassification, he still needed to make sure his staff took the necessary next steps to modify the classification markings on the documents before he could actually handle and store the records (as a private citizen) as if they were unclassified. Under security classification rules, a classification marking on a document has to be treated as valid and binding unless and until a subsequent marking replaces it. Appropriate government staffers would have needed to cross out the classification markings in the headers and footers, and stamped 'declassified' on the record noting when it was declassified, by whom and under what authority. Since that does not appear to have been done with the classified documents reportedly identified to date, the documents remain classified and had to be treated as classified for handling and storage purposes.

The three also examined 18 U.S.C. 2071, "Concealment, Removal, or Mutilation Generally," which has received a great deal of attention as it could potentially bar Trump from running for office in 2024.

"This is a more attractive statute for a prosecutor to apply to Trump than Section 1924, mainly because it does not require that the documents be classified – it applies to all government records," they wrote. "It also seems to fit the facts we know so far, namely that the FBI reportedly searched locations within Mar-a-Lago other than the room originally shown to DOJ during their June visit – suggesting that they had received information in the interim that additional documents were being stored, or concealed, elsewhere. For example, FBI agents allegedly searched Trump’s personal safe and his closet. Evidence that Trump had failed to reveal the full scope or all the locations where government records were being stored both to NARA and then to DOJ would also meet the heightened intent standard required by Section 2071, which is that the defendant act 'willfully.'"

They also noted three other potential violations of Title 18 of U.S. Code, which covers federal criminal law.

"A partially overlapping offense to Section 2071 can be found in 18 U.S.C. 641, which provides for criminal penalties against anyone who 'steals, purloins, or knowingly converts to his use or the use of another' government property," they wrote. "Section 1361 applies to anyone who “willfully injures or commits any depredation against any property of the United States, or of any department or agency thereof.” The severity of the penalty depends on the extent of the damage done to the government property in question, in this case the official documents that Trump is alleged to have mishandled including during his White House tenure."

The noted Section 1361 could potentially apply to documents Trump reportedly flushed down the toilet.

The three also noted Section 793, "Gathering or Transmitting Defense Information," may also apply.

"In a conventional White House not consumed with efforts to overthrow an election, the White House Counsel’s Office and relevant personnel would have sorted through the president’s records weeks before Inauguration Day and ensured that any classified records were properly secured. Reporting indicates that Trump’s White House was focused on 'other matters' until the final days of Trump’s presidency, and the resulting failure to separate out classified records may have been the result," the three reported. "The second prong, failing to promptly return national defense information upon learning it was illegally removed from a secure location, would have particular relevance in light of media reporting that Trump continued to have classified records at Mar-a-Lago even after his staff returned records in February. The fact that the FBI had to go so far as request that Trump staffers at Mar-a-Lago secure the room where the remaining classified records were still stored (which the aides then did with a padlock), and that the FBI’s search warrant authorized opening of safes and other locations both give reason to believe the government suspected there were more classified records stored at Mar-a-Lago."

Read Full Analysis Here:

https://www.justsecurity.org/82619/expert-explainer-criminal-statutes-that-could-apply-to-trumps-retention-of-government-documents/

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5679 on: August 10, 2022, 09:41:15 AM »


 

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