Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2


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Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5376 on: June 18, 2022, 01:14:55 PM »
Devastating evidence indicates that Trump knew he lost -- so his actions were criminal



We can’t know what’s happening inside the secret, special-purpose grand jury convened at the Fulton County Courthouse in Atlanta. We can’t hear the sworn testimony being given about Donald Trump’s multiple efforts to overturn the 2020 elections here in Georgia; we can’t read the documents being subpoenaed; we can’t know what revelations the investigation might be uncovering.

But up in Washington, D.C., a much more public process is playing out, much of it focused on the same set of facts, narratives and players that Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is exploring here in Atlanta. And from that, we’re learning a lot.

For example, one of the core issues confronting Willis in her decision whether to prosecute Trump is the question of Trump’s intent. If the former president truly believed that he had carried Georgia and was simply trying to get an accurate vote count, then he committed no crime. But if he did know that he had lost the election but was trying to overturn it anyway, then this was indeed a coup attempt and prosecution is not only possible but necessary.

In a televised hearing by a U.S. House select committee this week, we got a pretty definitive answer to that particular question:

1. Then-Attorney General Bill Barr testified via video that he had told Trump repeatedly and emphatically, in language too graphic to print here, that there was no evidence of significant vote fraud in Georgia or anywhere else. Barr’s replacement as attorney general later told Trump the same thing.

2. Trump’s campaign manager, Bill Stepien, testified that he too told Trump that they had lost fair and square.

3. Matt Oczkowski, the Trump campaign’s top data analyst, reaffirmed to Trump that he had lost fairly.
Trump’s White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, also told him he had lost.

4. Trump’s White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, also told him he had lost.

5. Trump’s appointee as head of U.S. cybersecurity, Chris Krebs, investigated voting-machine fraud charges and announced on Twitter that “in every case of which we are aware, these claims either have been unsubstantiated or are technically incoherent.” Trump can’t claim he didn’t know about that tweet, because he fired Krebs the same day, also via Twitter, citing the tweet as the reason.

6. A similar fate befell BJay Pak, the Trump-appointed U.S. attorney for northern Georgia. In testimony made public by the House committee this week, Pak said he had reported to his Justice Department superiors that he could find no evidence of election fraud in Georgia. For that, Trump demanded his resignation.

7. And of course, in their now-infamous phone call with Trump, Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and his staff also patiently walked through all the detailed evidence proving that there was no evidence of voting or election
fraud.

So yes, Trump knew that he had lost. Trump knew because many well-informed, credible fellow Republicans – many of them his own appointees – had dared to tell him so on repeated occasions, citing actual evidence and data. The House committee has made that clear.

Thanks to the House committee, we may also get an early window into Raffensperger’s secret grand-jury testimony about Trump’s demand that Raffensperger “find” the 11,800 votes that Trump needed to carry Georgia.

For the moment, we don’t know if Raffensperger told the grand jury that he felt pressured by Trump to take improper or illegal actions to void the election results. We don’t know how Raffensperger interpreted Trump’s suggestion that Raffensperger might be criminally prosecuted if he did not reverse the outcome of the election, or whether he saw it as an effort to intimidate him.

But we do know that Raffensperger was also subpoenaed by and has testified to the House committee. According to the committee schedule, we will hear at least portions of his testimony in a public hearing next week.

Yet another Georgia angle that Willis will find interesting comes from a document recently made public by the Senate Judiciary Committee. It’s an unsent letter, drafted by Trump co-conspirators and circulated within the U.S. Department of Justice and elsewhere by Trump sympathizers in December of 2020. The draft is addressed to Gov. Brian Kemp, House Speaker David Ralston and Senate President Pro Tem Butch Miller, and it’s titled “Georgia Proof of Concept.”

The proposed letter falsely states that the Department of Justice had “identified significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome of the election” in Georgia. “In light of these developments,” the draft letter states, “the Department recommends that the Georgia General Assembly should convene in special session” to reallocate Georgia’s electoral votes from Joe Biden to Trump.

By that point, Kemp had already rebuffed Trump’s demands for a special session, but Trump would not be dissuaded. The letter insisted that “the Georgia General Assembly has implied authority under the Constitution of the United States to call itself into special session … regardless of any purported limit imposed by the state constitution or state statute requiring the Governor’s approval.”

In other words, the Georgia General Assembly should not feel itself bound by either Georgia law or the Georgia Constitution. That’s remarkable.

As the House select committee has documented, Trump was deeply involved in pressing the DOJ to send that false letter to Georgia imploring state officials to break their own laws. At one critical point, after acting Attorney General Jeff Rosen said he would never issue such a letter, Trump even threatened to fire Rosen and replace him with someone more willing to carry out his illegal orders.

What the House committee is exposing, what Willis may be finding, is a pattern in which Trump repeatedly tries to recruit people into his conspiracy. When Trump was told by Raffensperger that there was no legal way to change the vote outcome, Trump insisted that he do it anyway. When Mike Pence told Trump that there was no legal or constitutional way to alter the electoral-vote count, Trump pressured him intensely, publicly and privately, to do it anyway. When Kemp told Trump that there was no legal way to call the state Legislature into special session, Kemp was told to do it anyway. When DOJ lawyers said they had no valid grounds to send that “proof of concept” letter to Georgia or other states, Trump said do it anyway.

Do it anyway, regardless of the facts or the law. Folks, that’s criminal.

https://georgiarecorder.com/2022/06/16/bookman-evidence-builds-that-trump-knew-he-lost-so-attempted-coup-was-criminal/

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5376 on: June 18, 2022, 01:14:55 PM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5377 on: June 19, 2022, 12:15:58 PM »
Trump accused of 'revving' up the Jan 6th crowd into a 'murderous rage' by former DOJ official



Appearing on MSNBC on Saturday afternoon, former Deputy Assistant Attorney General Harry Litman named Donald Trump as the main cause of violence on Jan 6th when his supporters overran the Capitol police in an attempt to get to lawmakers.

Speaking with host Alex Witt, Litman grew incensed when describing the events of the day as he talked about the House select committee hearings.

After watching footage of the former president's supporters talking about trying to find vice president Mike Pence, host Witt asked, "So let's connect the dots here because clearly the crowd is angry that Pence did not heed Trump's calls. But the committee showed the former president and his lawyer, John Eastman, knew their theory that Pence had the authority to overthrow the election, wouldn't stand up in court. It was rejected by White House attorneys, completely rejected, and yet they still pressured Pence to do Trump's bidding. Does this rise to criminal behavior?"

"Yeah, I think so," the former DOJ official replied. "And I think it is part of the overall series of crimes that they could charge him with. But I do want to connect these dots because, check this out, again the Ivanka Trump call with Trump. So in the morning, they have this, when everyone calls a heated call. He is furious, he calls him [Pence] a wimp. He calls him worse."

"Then Trump goes out to the crowd i and pretends it is all up to Pence," he continued. "'If he does it, then we are okay. Otherwise, I will be very disappointed.' He knows that Pence has already decided, but keeping it open like that is designed to induce the murderous rage in the crowd, when they do you find out."

"Then it is as a surprise that absolutely inflames them," he continued. "And we have testimony that we have heard from the DOJ, that it was no joke. They were ready to tear him limb from limb. So Trump placed this dishonestly in such a way to rev the crowd up to its maximum level of violence. Really sinister."

Watch;


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5378 on: June 19, 2022, 12:51:54 PM »
Ivanka knew her father was plotting against Pence after sitting in on Oval Office meetings: Trump biographer

Speaking with MSNBC host Alex Witt on Saturday afternoon, Donald Trump biographer Tim O' Brien suggested that Ivanka Trump knew before Jan 6th that things would take a turn for the worse after sitting in on Oval Office meetings and listening to her father and senior advisers make plans to make Mike Pence the villain if he refused to help steal the election.

Asked by host Witt if the president's daughter had a "bad feeling" about the "Stop the Steal" rally that eventually led to the insurrection, he said "absolutely."

"Do you get a sense from her testimony that Ivanka had a bad feeling about January 6th, even before the rally at the ellipse?" Witt prompted.

"Absolutely," he began. "We know from other accounts of what she did that day that she honored the fact that Mike Pence was resisting Donald Trump's pressure to decertify the electoral results on January 6th at the Capitol. And then she obviously was in the Oval Office with several other campaign advisers, including lawyers, who heard him swearing at Mike Pence, who heard him grow increasingly angry at Mike Pence, because Mike Pence wouldn't do a Donald Trump wanted him to do, which was to break the law."

"What is significant is what we have learned in the hearings thus far, is that Donald Trump at that point knew it was illegal," he elaborated. "[Attorney John] Eastman had told him it was illegal. They had also, there are other people in the White House who said that the plan was 'nutty.'.It was crazy. So it was not only lacking in visibility, it was illegal and yet he continues to pressure Mike Pence, to break the law and he did so in front of a number of witnesses including his daughter."

Watch below:


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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5378 on: June 19, 2022, 12:51:54 PM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5379 on: June 19, 2022, 01:49:02 PM »
One of the bogus conspiracies being pushed by right wingers is "Biden has an open border policy" with Haitians "pouring in to America.

That's a lie.

In fact, Joe Biden has deported nearly as many Haitians in 12 months (20,200+) as were deported during the previous 20 years. The article below documents that fact and the Quixote Center, a social justice group, is upset about Hatians being deported and was calling on Biden to stop the deportations which he has not stopped. So, the fact this social justice group is upset over the high deportation rate proves Hatians are not "pouring in" otherwise they wouldn't be this upset calling on Biden to stop deporting them.   

This article is a 4 months old so the numbers would be even higher.

So, President Biden is doing his job by deporting Hatains like he should and another right wing conspiracy theory has been debunked.   


Biden deported many Haitians in his first year as the last three presidents – combined

Biden has expelled nearly as many Haitians in 12 months (20,200+) as were deported during the previous 20 years (22,000-23,000)*** under three different presidents. Indeed, Biden’s administration has likely expelled far more: In addition to these official removal numbers, another estimated 8,000 Haitians were expelled back into Mexico in September of 2021, voluntarily according to DHS Secretary Mayorkas, but in circumstances that make that characterization suspect.

The numbers

Through the end of January 2022, the Biden administration expelled 19,189 Haitians via flights to Port au Prince and Cap Haitien according to the International Organization on Migration. There have been an additional eleven flights from February 1st to February 21th – bringing the estimated total number of people expelled to 20,200 and growing. For regular reporting on flights, see Witness at the Border.



Another 8,000 Haitians “volunteered” to return back to Mexico in September of 2021 according to Department of Homeland Security Secretary Mayorkas, speaking during a press conference about the situation in the Del Rio sector. The degree to which people voluntarily went back into Mexico must be weighed against what they were facing – certain detention and deportation to Haiti. In addition, the entire fiasco that occurred at the Del Rio crossing was an abomination of human rights violations. There has been an internal DHS investigation into Border Patrol attacks on Haitian migrants and a lawsuit brought by the Haitian Bridge Alliance and other organizations concerning the overall poor treatment of Haitians by US immigration authorities in Del Rio.

The Trump administration expelled **6,691 Haitians. Just over 2,800 of those removals occurred early in 2017, following the Obama administration’s decision to expand deportations to Haiti in October of 2016. Indeed, of the 5,567 Haitians expelled in FY 2017, 2,737 were expelled by the Obama administration between October 2016 to January 2017. Most of the rest expelled that year occurred in February to April, and more accurately reflect an Obama policy. Trump announced his intention to suspend Temporary Protected Status for Haiti in late 2017 – but that suspension was tied up in courts throughout his presidency.

The Obama administration expelled *6,758 Haitians over an 8 year period. As noted above 40% of those removals occurred in the first 4 months of FY 2017. Temporary Protected Status was re-designated for Haiti by the Obama administration in 2011 – a year after the massive earthquake that wrecked Port au Prince in January of 2010. Despite TPS being in place and the country in shambles, deportations continued for new arrivals and so called “criminal deportees” who did not qualify for TPS. The deportations were condemned by the United Nations and others. A detailed report on these removals was published in 2015 jointly by the law clinics at the Universities of Miami and Chicago.

In 2016 the massive increase in deportations was the result of an increase in arrivals of Haitians near San Diego, and was intended then (as today) as a deterrent. The Haitians arriving in San Diego were mostly leaving Brazil where many had relocated after the 2010 earthquake. From 2010 to 2015 Brazil admitted tens of thousands of Haitians in a drive for workers to help prepare for the Olympics and World Cup. Starting in 2015, Brazil fell into a recession, and the situation for Haitians deteriorated quickly. Many tried to come to the United States in 2015 and 2016. They were mostly blocked at the border, as the Obama administration instituted its “metering” system, which forced Haitians to wait in Mexico for their number to be called. Some are still waiting.



The Bush administration deported 9,100 Haitians – during a time that included an increase in removals following the 9/11/2001 attacks and an increase in border militarization more generally. The Bush years also covered the 2004 coup d’etat in Haiti, following which the US Coast Guard interdicted and returned hundreds of Haitians caught at sea – though nothing like the number that had been interdicted in the 1990s. Those numbers are not included here or in any other year, as the people interdicted in this manner rarely make it to the United States.

Take Action to Stop Removals:

We need to tell Biden to halt the expulsion of Haitians. At least 85% of these expulsions have taken place using Title 42 policies – a faux public health order issued under the Trump Administration permitting the Department of Homeland Security to expel people without any possibility of asylum screening. So, not only has Biden removed far more Haitians, but he has shut many out of the possibility to apply for asylum in the process and at a time of great distress in Haiti.

https://www.quixote.org/biden-has-deported-nearly-as-many-haitians-in-his-first-year-as-the-last-three-presidents-combined/

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5380 on: June 20, 2022, 12:55:25 AM »
Georgia election investigation 'will send Donald Trump to jail': former Watergate prosecutor



According to former Watergate prosecutor Nick Akerman, he has no doubt that there is an ironclad case brewing in Georgia that will lead to an indictment and conviction of Donald Trump.

Speaking with MSNBC host Katie Phang, Akerman said the evidence is overwhelming that the former president tried to steal the election in the Peachtree state as evidenced by the phone call made to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger demanding he find enough votes to secure the state's 16 Electoral College votes.

'You mentioned that you guys had tapes in the Nixon Watergate situation," host Phang pointed out. "We have a tape, though. We have that tape of Donald Trump pressuring Brad Raffensperger. In your opinion, you don't think that is going to be enough?"

"Oh I think that is enough," Akerman replied. "If you are asking which of the cases right now, which one is going to send Donald Trump to prison, that is the case. There is a really neat three-year felony in Georgia, that Donald Trump has violated. Prosecutors love tape-recorded evidence because you cannot cross-examine it"

"What is significant though, with those cases, is that when you put in the context of all of the evidence that's the January six committee has uncovered. When you put that together, Donald Trump has zero defense in Georgia," he added. "If I had to put my money on one prosecution that is going to go forward here, that one will send Donald Trump to jail, it is Georgia -- no question about it."

"The only defense that he has got here is trying to somehow pick up on some ambiguity in the tape, that he did not really mean what he said," he elaborated. "But once you look at what he said, trying to get Brad Raffensperger to come up with extra votes to make him a winner in Georgia, and put in the context about the January 6th committee has found, I think they have gotten a case beyond a reasonable doubt."


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5381 on: June 20, 2022, 01:42:58 AM »
Norm Eisen expects racketeering charges in Georgia as Trump 'finally faces accountability'

CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen predicted that former President Donald Trump will be charged with racketeering when he "finally faces accountability" for trying to overturn the presidential election in Georgia.

Eisen made the remarks ahead of a Jan. 6 Committee hearing on Trump's efforts in Georgia, where he was recorded pressuring officials to find new votes for him after the election.

"What kinds of crimes do you believe [Fulton County District Attorney Fani T. Willis] in Georgia would be looking at?" CNN host Fredricka Whitfield asked the attorney on Sunday.

Eisen predicted that Trump is in danger of being charged with solicitation of election fraud.

"You can't ask for those 11,780 votes that don't exist," he pointed out. "She prosecuted the Atlanta teaching scandal as a RICO [Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act] case -- Georgia state RICO. A racketeer and corrupt influence in organizations. In this case, that would be Trump and the Trump campaign. I think she'll do RICO here."

"I think charges in Georgia are looking increasingly likely," Eisen continued. "Atlanta is the place where Trump may finally face accountability."

"Wow," Whitfield replied. "That would be -- I mean, that's extraordinary."

Watch the video below from CNN:


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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5381 on: June 20, 2022, 01:42:58 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5382 on: June 20, 2022, 09:42:45 AM »
Criminal Donald's deranged violent cult is threatening the life of Rep. Adam Kinzinger and his family.     

Republican Adam Kinzinger faces threats of assassination against him, his wife and new baby

Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) isn't seeking reelection but his position on the House Select Committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack has made his life more dangerous.

While appearing on ABC's "This Week," Kinzinger revealed one of the death threats against him, specifically mentioning his wife and their five-month-old baby.

"I’d never seen or had anything like that. It was sent from the local area," he said.

Kinzinger isn't the only one, right-wing members and conspiracy theorists have been among the top groups to threaten officials at the federal, state and even local election officials. The threats against the local officials have been so serious that the Justice Department was forced to send local police departments guidance.

He went on to explain that he wasn't surprised by the violence by those who believe in the conspiracy theories around the 2020 election.

“If you truly believe the deep state owned the election and the democracy was stolen and the election was stolen, that’s the most logical outcome,” said Kinzinger, who voted to impeach Trump shortly after the Jan. 6 attack and is not running for reelection.

He also accused others in his party of failing the American people by refusing to fight to uphold the Constitution and American democracy.

See the interview with Kinzinger below:


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5383 on: June 20, 2022, 10:41:11 PM »
Legal expert anticipates the next Jan. 6 hearing evidence — and predicts nothing can save Trump



The House Select Committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on Congress and the plot to overthrow the 2020 election is set to meet again on Tuesday for a public hearing at 1 p.m. EST.

Speaking about the issues the committee will deal with, CNN legal expert Elie Honig noted that thus far, Americans have seen the way in which former President Donald Trump pressured Mike Pence and "weaponized the Justice Department." On Tuesday, Honig noted that the committee will show, among other things, how Trump pressured Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to magically "find" 11,780 votes so he could win the 2020 election.

"I think what we will see on Tuesday, the most audacious of all those efforts to get state officials to hand him their electoral votes," said Honig. "The Constitution tells us state legislatures do have the right to decide how they'll award their electoral votes, but the problem is they decided that many, many years ago, whoever wins the popular vote in the state gets all the electoral votes and Donald Trump quite aggressively thinks he can pick up the phone, call state officials and get them to flip that and hand him the electoral votes. And to the credit of those state-level officials, many Republicans, they said, no, that would violate the Constitution, violate our oaths. It would violate the law. Ultimately, this scheme really backfired and self-destructed in remarkable fashion."

Host Pamela Brown cited an ABC/Ipsos poll showing that 58 percent of Americans support charges against Trump after seeing just two hearings from the committee. That doesn't necessarily mean that prosecutors will form a decision based on that.

"DOJ and prosecutors are supposed to be separate from politics and from whatever the public thinks, but I do think the poll is interesting," Honig said. "I think it reflects the fact the committee has made a powerful evidentiary showing. The committee has given us new facts and re-established things we knew. Donald Trump tried to steal this election and most importantly, they've shown us inside Donald Trump's mind what prosecutors called intent. I think they've made a really powerful argument that he knew he had lost the election, that he knew there was no evidence of widespread election fraud, that he knew his legal schemes were completely unconstitutional and invalid. I think the committee has shown us a really strong foundation that prosecutors ought to be working off of."

Trump's defense has been that he believed legal experts who told him that the election was fraudulent. While many of his legal experts had advised him that the election couldn't be changed, even John Eastman confessed on Jan. 4, 2021, that the attempt to stop the certification on Jan. 6 wouldn't work. Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell were among the few maintaining that Trump could change the results.

"I think you've hit on what Donald Trump's defense will be. 'I'm entitled to believe who I want to believe,'" suggested Honig. "The comeback from prosecutors here is going to be something called willful blindness. As a prosecutor, you can prove intent in two ways: the person actually knew the truth, or the person was what we call willfully blind. Judges describe it as like an ostrich burying his head in the sand. I think the argument would be Donald Trump knew the truth. He understood what the real truth was, but he chose to shut out those people, the people Bill Stepien called 'Team Normal', and only listened to those who would tell him what he wanted to hear. There is an out route to get around the difficult question of how do you prove what someone knew. It's enough to say, okay, but he shut out certain input and only heard what he wanted to hear."

Watch:


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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #5383 on: June 20, 2022, 10:41:11 PM »


 

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