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Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )  (Read 214323 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #480 on: September 17, 2020, 06:05:25 PM »
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Come on John.

Q: How many TSBD employees were asked if they'd seen Sarah Stanton?
A: None
Q: How many TSBD employees were asked if they'd seen Oswald?
A: All of them

The TSBD employees were asked, March 1964, if they had seen Oswald when the shots were fired or when Kennedy was shot!

As is very often the case, the quality of the question determines the quality of the answer.

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #480 on: September 17, 2020, 06:05:25 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #481 on: September 17, 2020, 07:23:20 PM »
Come on John.

Q: How many TSBD employees were asked if they'd seen Sarah Stanton?
A: None
Q: How many TSBD employees were asked if they'd seen Oswald?
A: All of them

4 or 5 months after the fact, some of which conflicted with prior or later statements.  Carolyn Arnold's March 18 statement, for example, said only "I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at the time President Kennedy was shot".

As Martin astutely points out, we're not privy to what the question actually was.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #482 on: September 17, 2020, 07:28:42 PM »
Even by your high standards of misrepresentation this stands out.
In the post you refer to I state that the President was not shot in front of the steps of the TSBD and that the people stood there only started to find out from returning employees (ie: Gloria Calvery).
What on earth do you mean I "can't have it both ways"? What do you mean by "the very same frame"?
What, exactly, are you talking about?

The Darnell frame in which Tommy Graves argued to your satisfaction that Gloria Calvery was up on the steps telling everybody about the shooting.  This is the same moment in time that you are also arguing that "the people stood on the steps didn't know what was going on", in order to argue with Martin's postulate that the people on the steps may not realize who was around them because of the stress of the moment.

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #482 on: September 17, 2020, 07:28:42 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #483 on: September 18, 2020, 05:13:28 PM »
Friends, we have known for some time now that all the 'Fritz notes' of Mr Oswald's interrogations are not his own notes---------------

Though they are indeed in Captain Fritz's handwriting, they derive their contents from FBI Agent James Bookhout's series of solo reports.

However, p. 1 has always presented an anomaly, as it does not correspond nearly as closely as the other pages to the first published Bookhout solo report.

Well! There's a curious feature on this p.1 that gives us a clue as to how all the 'Fritz notes' came to be written down:



Captain Fritz is not copying or digesting directly from a written source he has in front of him. No---------he is scribbling this stuff down as he listens. Hence a) the ridiculous misspelling (unthinkable from a trained FBI agent!) of 'writing' as 'wrighting'; b) the phonetic first attempt at the unfamiliar name 'Bookhout' ("B.O.").

Conclusion!

Captain Fritz is either listening to someone reading out a report or listening to the playback of a dictated report.

Either way, he is not copying down Agent Bookhout's contemporaneous notes (i.e. notes taken during the actual session).

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« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 08:27:31 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #484 on: September 18, 2020, 10:39:32 PM »
  No---------he is scribbling this stuff down as he listens
By his own admission ..that is not true.
The scribble is from memory [some time later] Maybe that evening.
There was no recording.

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #484 on: September 18, 2020, 10:39:32 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #485 on: September 20, 2020, 12:11:21 PM »
By his own admission ..that is not true.
The scribble is from memory [some time later] Maybe that evening.
There was no recording.

No recording of what?

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #486 on: September 20, 2020, 04:58:42 PM »
Now!

We know from Agent Hosty's handwritten draft report that Mr Oswald--------------in that first interrogation--------------told Captain Fritz he "went outside to watch P. Parade".

However, in the first published interrogation report-----------------the joint report by Agents Bookhout and Hosty-----------------this fact is carefully danced around: Mr Oswald with helpful vagueness merely gave "first floor" as his location when Mr Kennedy passed the building. Furthermore, the name "Bill Shelley" is studiously avoided. But! We see it here handwritten at the top:



Mr Shelley is relevant to but cannot be mentioned in this report of Mr Oswald's first interrogation.

In Agent Bookhout's subsequent solo report, Mr Shelley's name is included but in a way that suppresses the true context in which Mr Oswald named him.

What is that true context? Why, Mr Oswald names Mr Shelley as someone who was out on the front steps at the time he (Mr Oswald) went out there-------------i.e. at the time of the shooting.

But there were plenty of people out on those front steps at the time. So why does Mr Oswald single Mr Shelley out for special mention?

Apart from the obvious fact that Mr Shelley is his supervisor, there's also this fact to consider:

Just over an hour previously, Mr Oswald has been brought into the Homicide Office:



In this footage, we see that he is not brought straight into the back room. The reason is that there is already someone in there having their statement taken. That person we know from the documentary record to be Mr Bill Shelley. The room must be cleared before Mr Oswald can be brought in.

Had the camera kept filming this scene a little longer, we would see Mr Shelley being brought out of the back room, right in front of Mr Oswald, and Mr Oswald then being brought in.

Mr Oswald therefore has seen Mr Shelley at DPD HQ and now, in interrogation, is-----------sensibly enough-----------naming him as someone from whom Captain Fritz can easily ask for confirmation of Mr Oswald's whereabouts at the time of the shooting: front steps.

Small wonder Mr Shelley is designated a Key Person at the top of that first interrogation report!

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« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 09:55:51 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #486 on: September 20, 2020, 04:58:42 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #487 on: September 25, 2020, 06:26:43 AM »
What’s really confusing is Bill Shelly WC testimony vs Charles Givens WC testimony

Shelly says to the effect he saw Oswald at 10 till 12 When Shelly WENT DOWN to the 1st floor to eat his lunch.

There was oddly no follow up
question to Shelly to
more specifically state if that meant  seeing Oswald “on the 1st floor at 10 till 12 or on the 6th floor

Givens WC testimony is agreeing with the time 11:55 of seeing Oswald on 6th floor after having seen him at 11:45 on the 5th floor as all others from
6th floor were taking elevator down at which time allegedly, Oswald shouted to send elevator back up. And Givens then goes back up to get cigarettes he left and sees Oswald and Oswald says AGAIN?! to
Send elevator back up rather than ride down with Givens. WTF???

Me thinks somebody is a BS Lion