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Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )  (Read 214434 times)

Offline James Hunnicutt

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #448 on: September 07, 2020, 07:58:58 PM »
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"Truth be told, we don't really know exactly where Shelley stood either."

You don't think the fat chap in the doorway is Shelley?

"He could say that if Stanton was between him and Sanders (ie. somewhere in the middle of the entranceway)."

That has no bearing on the point I'm making. (wouldn't she be in Altgens 6)

"Everyone in the entryway was standing "together".  It's not like it was some vast expanse of real estate."

Nice flip flop. A second ago no-one was standing next to prayer-blob as if it was some vast expanse of real estate, now everyone's together.
The two closest people to prayer-blob are Lovelady and Shelley. Lovelady confirms she was over by the right (west) side. Stanton can't see the motorcade as soon as it passes the front of the building.
Stanton is prayer-blob  8)

...You don't think the fat chap in the doorway is Shelley?...

You don't say...

Bill Shelley was a fat guy?

Please opine?

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #448 on: September 07, 2020, 07:58:58 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #449 on: September 08, 2020, 12:04:05 AM »
...You don't think the fat chap in the doorway is Shelley?...

You don't say...

Bill Shelley was a fat guy?

Please opine?

"Bill Shelley was a fat guy?"

What are you talking about? In the picture below Shelley is the man on the far right. Do some basic research before you make your next irrelevant comment.

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #450 on: September 08, 2020, 08:12:28 PM »
Lovelady identified himself as himself. Fellow workers identified him as himself. I reckon Oswald had somewhat higher, loftier ambitions than to just stand around on TSBD entrance steps, doing nothing more than looking like himself.

Yeah, except that Lovelady lied about the shirt he was wearing and lied about where he was located. We know this from the Martin film and from other photographic evidence. I don't blame Lovelady too much because he was undoubtedly strong-armed by the FBI to lie about these things because they were desperate to avoid having to admit that Oswald was not on the sixth floor during the shooting.

Gosh, why don't you just dare yourself to break down and read research even though you know it will challenge your position?

Dr. Wrone is a very careful, measured scholar, not prone to flights of fancy. His book was endorsed by the likes of Dr. Douglas Brinkley and Dr. Walter Dellinger. Brinkley was the director of the Eisenhower Center and a professor of history at the University of New Orleans. Dellinger was a professor of law at Duke University and a former U.S. Solicitor General.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 08:18:10 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #450 on: September 08, 2020, 08:12:28 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #451 on: September 08, 2020, 09:23:27 PM »
Yeah, except that Lovelady lied about the shirt he was wearing and lied about where he was located. We know this from the Martin film and from other photographic evidence. I don't blame Lovelady too much because he was undoubtedly strong-armed by the FBI to lie about these things because they were desperate to avoid having to admit that Oswald was not on the sixth floor during the shooting.

Gosh, why don't you just dare yourself to break down and read research even though you know it will challenge your position?

Dr. Wrone is a very careful, measured scholar, not prone to flights of fancy. His book was endorsed by the likes of Dr. Douglas Brinkley and Dr. Walter Dellinger. Brinkley was the director of the Eisenhower Center and a professor of history at the University of New Orleans. Dellinger was a professor of law at Duke University and a former U.S. Solicitor General.

Goody for them: Now tell us who knew, besides the shooter, that a hit on Kennedy was scheduled for that day. So far, it seems everyone else either slept in or missed that particular memo.

My position includes having both feet on the ground, as opposed to pouring a vat of ivory-tower credentials over the ramparts like so much hot oil.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 05:47:41 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #452 on: September 09, 2020, 06:38:43 AM »
If prayer blob is Stanton , then one would have to conclude that the  Lovelady statement “and right behind me” would have ended with “Sarah Stanton”, if he had not been interrupted in his WC testimony .

But would it not be illogically redundant for Lovelady to be relocating Stanton “ behind me” when he has already just located  her along with Shelley in his previous statement?

Now if one speculates that Lovelady was just about to ID the person in his “ and right behind me” statement as Oswald, if not interrupted, then one has to wonder why Lovelady would not met with one of those curious “accidental deaths” that so many other JFK witnesses did.

Would the conspirators have allowed Lovelady to live on for another 13 years with this vital secret of knowing Oswald had an iron clad alibi?

Perhaps this “interruption” of Lovelady in the WC hearing was merely coincidental, and the conspirators never really knew Lovelady had been almost about to exonerate Oswald?

could Lovelady have kept this vital secret to himself for the next 13 years?

Should Loveladys   death very close to the HSCA hearing be considered merely  a concidental death?

Or did conspirators learn belated via some source that Lovelady might ID the person “behind” as Oswald, thus Lovelady meets with the timely fatal heart attack at only the age of 45?


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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #452 on: September 09, 2020, 06:38:43 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #453 on: September 09, 2020, 11:19:52 AM »
If prayer blob is Stanton , then one would have to conclude that the  Lovelady statement “and right behind me” would have ended with “Sarah Stanton”, if he had not been interrupted in his WC testimony .

But would it not be illogically redundant for Lovelady to be relocating Stanton “ behind me” when he has already just located  her along with Shelley in his previous statement?

Now if one speculates that Lovelady was just about to ID the person in his “ and right behind me” statement as Oswald, if not interrupted, then one has to wonder why Lovelady would not met with one of those curious “accidental deaths” that so many other JFK witnesses did.

Would the conspirators have allowed Lovelady to live on for another 13 years with this vital secret of knowing Oswald had an iron clad alibi?

Perhaps this “interruption” of Lovelady in the WC hearing was merely coincidental, and the conspirators never really knew Lovelady had been almost about to exonerate Oswald?

could Lovelady have kept this vital secret to himself for the next 13 years?

Should Loveladys   death very close to the HSCA hearing be considered merely  a concidental death?

Or did conspirators learn belated via some source that Lovelady might ID the person “behind” as Oswald, thus Lovelady meets with the timely fatal heart attack at only the age of 45?

If we assume prayer-blob is LHO, the problem isn't confined to Lovelady. The majority of the twelve people stood on the TSBD steps as the President passed by knew LHO by sight, as did other employees who would have a clear view of prayer-blob such as O V Campbell and Roy Edward Lewis. In Darnell we see employees streaming back into the building all filing past him. When Baker gets into the lobby he sees "several people standing around" who we can assume are returning employees who have just passed LHO on the steps.
The number of witnesses who recognised LHO on the steps would probably run into double figures. In order to avoid this inconvenience PMZ's have LHO slipping outside quietly at the last minute and taking up a position at the back where he goes unnoticed (lets ignore the employees filing past him). AND THEN, to make the height requirements the same zealots have LHO in this position:

Here we see him stood in the most awkward position imaginable, blocking part of the steps, in plain view of anyone on the top steps and right in the face of any returning employees. Hardly inconspicuous.
As soon as the FBI started interviewing people they would be hearing statement after statement placing LHO on the top step. All these people would have to be individually threatened and all would have to play along. In terms of mysterious deaths, every single person who witnessed LHO on the steps that day would become a top priority target.
This is all fantasy of course and goes away when we realise Oswald was not on the steps and is not prayer-blob.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 11:29:44 AM by Dan O'meara »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #454 on: September 09, 2020, 09:27:31 PM »
Dan would have you think that everybody who worked in the TSBD was intimately familiar with LHO prior to the assassination even though he rarely socialized with anybody or even talked to them and would have specifically remembered seeing him standing in the shadows during a traumatic event with people scattered around everywhere.

Hardly anybody mentioned Jeraldean Reid standing out front.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 09:28:22 PM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #454 on: September 09, 2020, 09:27:31 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #455 on: September 09, 2020, 09:29:43 PM »
In his book The Zapruder Film: Reframing JFK's Assassination (University Press of Kansas, 2003), Dr. David Wrone makes a convincing case that Oswald, not Bill Lovelady, is the man seen standing in the TSBD doorway in the Altgens photo.

The problem is, the face and the hairline do not look like Oswald.