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Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )  (Read 214226 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #296 on: August 10, 2020, 04:57:22 PM »
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LHO said "I went down"---meaning he was on a floor above the 2nd floor where the encounter took place. "I went down" can only mean he was located above the second floor and went down to the second floor.

That's a very one sided interpretation of words that Oswald may or may not have spoken.

To go outside the building, as he said - according to the same report - he did, he also needed to go down, from the 2nd floor to street level. If Oswald actually said those words at all, he could just as easily have been talking about going down the stairs at the front door.

You also seem to want to cherry pick what, according to the report, Oswald said as you ignore his comment: "a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door". If Oswald said this and it is true, there never was an encounter in the 2nd floor lunchroom, and him being stopped just before he got to the front door gives further credence to the suggestion that he actually was talking about going outside when he said "I went down".

« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 08:43:52 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #296 on: August 10, 2020, 04:57:22 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #297 on: August 10, 2020, 07:28:26 PM »
LHO said "I went down"---meaning he was on a floor above the 2nd floor where the encounter took place. "I went down" can only mean he was located above the second floor and went down to the second floor.

The statement you are interpreting says nothing about the second floor.

Holmes:
Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #298 on: August 10, 2020, 08:45:55 PM »
Oh, pardon me!  Don't flatter yourself, Mr. Ford! None of you conspiracy buffs say anything that "scare" me!
 
Your question is both ridiculous and stupid.  You expect a person to name "a credible alternative" to "Prayer man", when none of us know what all of the men who worked at the depository looked like!  Furthermore, no one knows whether "Prayer man" is an employee of the TSBD or someone off the street!  So there's your answer!  Like it or not!

I don't just like your answer, Mr Barber, I love it--------it shows how lost you are on this issue!  Thumb1:

Now! Prayer Man (and I note your agreement that's it's a Man not a Woman) is not just in the Darnell film but in the Wiegman film too. At the time of the shooting, therefore, he is standing over by himself at the west side of the front entrance.

Here's where your problem starts, Mr Barber... Every single Depository worker who came to work that day gave account of their whereabouts at the time of the shooting. Not a single one---------not a one!----------puts themselves where we see Prayer Man. They all put themselves somewhere elseThumb1:

What this means is that your 'we don't know what all employees looked like' line is a hopeless deflection. Because even if you could come up with the name of a single employee whose appearance (physiognomy, clothes, hair) might make them a fit for Prayer Man (which you obviously can't!), that person would be immediately ruled out by virtue of their known presence elsewhere. An example of this would be Mr Billy Lovelady, whom we know was NOT standing beside Mr Billy Lovelady at the time of the shooting!

Keeping up so far, Mr Barber? Good for you------------let's proceed!  Thumb1:

The collapse of your 'some other Depository man' argument leaves you with your Hail Mary pass: Prayer Man is a random stranger off the street. The fact that you resort to this second hopeless argument merely tells us that your powers of logic leave a lot to be desired. On the one hand, you tell us how crazy it is to suggest that a nondescript employee (Mr Oswald) might have blended in all but unnoticed amongst a bunch of fellow employees; on the other hand, you tell us that you have no problem believing that a stranger could have stood up there----------the sole non-employee in an area filled only with employees------------and NOT have stood out like a sore thumb.

Your scenario, in short, is based on irrational thinking--------------par for the course with LN 'researchers' like you whose intense emotional investment in Mr Oswald's guilt clouds their cognitive faculties when it comes to assessing evidence that doesn't fit their beloved narrative!

A much more sensible-------------not least for your own ultimate peace of mind, Mr Barber!-----------would be to accept that a) you got this case all wrong, b) an employee who we now know claimed to have gone "outside to watch P. parade" did indeed do so, and chose a place where plenty other employees were congregated, and unsurprisingly didn't stick out like a sore thumb (as your mythical Random Stranger would have done!).

Thumb1:
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 08:52:45 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #298 on: August 10, 2020, 08:45:55 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #299 on: August 10, 2020, 08:47:25 PM »
The statement you are interpreting says nothing about the second floor.

Holmes:
Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

Poor Mr Nessan thinks the front door was located at the second-floor lunchroom!  :D

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #300 on: August 10, 2020, 08:57:13 PM »
The statement you are interpreting says nothing about the second floor.

Holmes:
Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."
If Baker is telling the truth he confronted Oswald on the second floor.
If the recorded words are true Baker confronted Oswald just as he reached the front door.
Either way, Oswald is inside the building at the time of the assassination
This is in accordance with the video evidence of Oswald saying exactly this. ("In" meaning "inside" in this case)

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #300 on: August 10, 2020, 08:57:13 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #301 on: August 10, 2020, 11:28:24 PM »
If Baker is telling the truth he confronted Oswald on the second floor.

If Officer Baker is telling the truth in his 11/22/63 affidavit, he confronted a man walking away from the stairway on a floor higher than two! Why on earth should we favor months-later WC testimony over a same-day statement?

Now! As Officer Baker is giving this very affidavit, Mr Oswald is brought into the Homicide Office in front of his eyes-------------yet Officer Baker clearly doesn't recognize him as the man he had confronted... the affidavit makes no connection between the man just brought in and the man I caught walking away from the stairway. If he does recognize the man just brought in, then it will have been as the man he asked for help as he was entering the front door of the building. In which case it is perhaps already dawning on Officer Baker just what a tangled web he has gotten caught up in...

Quote
If the recorded words are true Baker confronted Oswald just as he reached the front door.
Either way, Oswald is inside the building at the time of the assassination

Slow down! Who is the 'he' in "as he reached the front door"? Officer Baker or Mr Oswald?

Officer Baker, in his 11/22/63 affidavit, tells us that as he was entering the front door he asked "several people" who were "standing around" where the stairs were. Who can these several people have been, and where exactly do you think they were standing---------inside or outside?

Quote
This is in accordance with the video evidence of Oswald saying exactly this. ("In" meaning "inside" in this case)

If it were "exactly this", you wouldn't need to change "in" to "inside"! And your switcheroo doesn't even begin to dispose of the Hosty draft report: "Then went outside to watch P. parade".

While you're there, Mr O'Meara, have you come up with a credible alternative candidate for Prayer Man yet? (Mr Barber seems to have run away!)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 11:33:26 PM by Alan Ford »

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #302 on: August 11, 2020, 12:05:37 AM »
If Officer Baker is telling the truth in his 11/22/63 affidavit, he confronted a man walking away from the stairway on a floor higher than two! Why on earth should we favor months-later WC testimony over a same-day statement?

Now! As Officer Baker is giving this very affidavit, Mr Oswald is brought into the Homicide Office in front of his eyes-------------yet Officer Baker clearly doesn't recognize him as the man he had confronted... the affidavit makes no connection between the man just brought in and the man I caught walking away from the stairway. If he does recognize the man just brought in, then it will have been as the man he asked for help as he was entering the front door of the building. In which case it is perhaps already dawning on Officer Baker just what a tangled web he has gotten caught up in...

Slow down! Who is the 'he' in "as he reached the front door"? Officer Baker or Mr Oswald?

Officer Baker, in his 11/22/63 affidavit, tells us that as he was entering the front door he asked "several people" who were "standing around" where the stairs were. Who can these several people have been, and where exactly do you think they were standing---------inside or outside?

If it were "exactly this", you wouldn't need to change "in" to "inside"! And your switcheroo doesn't even begin to dispose of the Hosty draft report: "Then went outside to watch P. parade".

While you're there, Mr O'Meara, have you come up with a credible alternative candidate for Prayer Man yet? (Mr Barber seems to have run away!)

"If Officer Baker is telling the truth in his 11/22/63 affidavit, he confronted a man walking away from the stairway on a floor higher than two! Why on earth should we favor months-later WC testimony over a same-day statement?"

He was unfamiliar with the building and pumped full of adrenaline. In his statement he is very vague about where the confrontation took place, possibly not realising it's importance. He doesn't say "a floor higher than two". The re-enactment probably cleared things up if he hadn't already realised it was the second floor.

"Now! As Officer Baker is giving this very affidavit, Mr Oswald is brought into the Homicide Office in front of his eyes-------------yet Officer Baker clearly doesn't recognize him as the man he had confronted... the affidavit makes no connection between the man just brought in and the man I caught walking away from the stairway. If he does recognize the man just brought in, then it will have been as the man he asked for help as he was entering the front door of the building. In which case it is perhaps already dawning on Officer Baker just what a tangled web he has gotten caught up in... "

The usual fantasia Mr Ford

"Slow down! Who is the 'he' in "as he reached the front door"? Officer Baker or Mr Oswald?"

Read the post you're replying to.

"Officer Baker, in his 11/22/63 affidavit, tells us that as he was entering the front door he asked "several people" who were "standing around" where the stairs were. Who can these several people have been, and where exactly do you think they were standing---------inside or outside?"

This is what Baker actually stated: "As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were."
Do you see how you've twisted the original meaning?
Were they inside or outside? The clue is in the phrase "As I entered the front door". The front door delineates inside and outside. Isn't that obvious?
Who are these people? I thought you Prayer Man lot had accounted for where everyone was. Roy Lewis also talks about some women standing in this area. Who are they? Don't you know?

"If it were "exactly this", you wouldn't need to change "in" to "inside"! And your switcheroo doesn't even begin to dispose of the Hosty draft report: "Then went outside to watch P. parade"."

Erm...


"While you're there, Mr O'Meara, have you come up with a credible alternative candidate for Prayer Man yet? (Mr Barber seems to have run away!)"


The second you come up with anyone even remotely credible I'll give it some thought 8)

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #302 on: August 11, 2020, 12:05:37 AM »


Offline Frederick Clements

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #303 on: August 11, 2020, 04:15:44 AM »

Frazier has been shown the Prayer Man photo on many occasions and each time he has given different answers. He has never said that is Oswald, but has never said that is not Oswald either.

Fred