Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )

[Alan Ford]

My look into this case has taken me in a completely different direction than John Mytton but this is not the first time he's stepped into a thread with something devastating. Here he presents video evidence of Lee Harvey Oswald placing himself inside the TSBD at the time of the assassination:

Oswald: I work in that building [the TSBD]
Reprter: Were you in the building at the time?
Oswald: Naturally, if I work in that building, yes sir.

There are so many good arguments against the identification of Oswald as the Shadow Person but none are definitive. This is definitive.
However, too many people have spent too much time defending this nonsense and have now painted themselves into a corner. I look forward to how Magical Thinking copes with definitive video evidence of Oswald placing himself inside the TSBD during the assassination. A record of the words coming out of his own mouth.

This should be entertaining 

What should be entertaining, Mr O'Meara, is waiting for you to back up the claim that Mr Oswald places himself 'inside the TSBD during the assassination'.

I suggest you read my reply (in my previous post) to Mr Mytton's nonsense! 

[Alan Ford]

The last tiny thread you are hanging on to is whether the Shadow Person is in position before the first shot. Even if this can be demonstrated to be the case (which I don't think it can) Oswald's own words, that he was in the building for the assassination, demonstrate he is not Prayer Man.

Nope! None of these people on the steps and on the landing can be said to be inside the building. They can however be said to be in the building, because they are within its enclosed front entrance, which still belongs to the building. None of them has left the building by stepping down into the street.

Mr Oswald hears the reporter's question, 'Were you in the building at the time?', as an accusation, and his response makes clear what his focus is: how preposterous it is to hold against him the fact that he was at his place of work. Not fully understanding a) the true accusation that is being brought against him; b) the fact that he will be shot dead before getting a chance to clear his name, he does not think to go into semantics with the reporter. A pity, but there you have it. Thankfully, the discovery of the Hosty note settles the issue once and for all: Mr Oswald claimed to have gone "outside to watch P. parade". Good luck finding wiggle-room ambiguity in those words!

The Hosty note also destroys the lie that Mr Oswald confirmed a post-assassination encounter with a cop and Mr Truly in the second-floor lunchroom just after the assassination. We now know that Mr Oswald claimed to have visited that lunchroom before the motorcade-------------a claim that would be vindicated by Ms Carolyn Arnold (who was not privy to the Hosty note, any more than the rest of the world was!).

Mr Oswald went out on the front steps to watch the motorcade. He is probably Prayer Man. If you still disagree, perhaps you might tell us who you think Prayer Man could be? Can you offer even one candidate name? That would be great, cos no one else has been able to... and that's after seven years of the most intense effort!

The only Magical Thinking going on here, Mr O'Meara, is coming from those who wish to explain away the truly devastating Hosty note!

 

[Dan O'meara]

My last post about the synchronisation of the Wiegman film and the assassination was utter balderdash and rookie excitement. So I went away and did what I should have done in the first place and researched it properly. I'm sure it's been done before but I found I could synchronise the Bell, Wiegman and Zapruder films and it threw up some interesting results. The timings are approximate, I'm rounding things up to the nearest second and I'm not sure how reliable the films are in terms of their actual running times versus real time.
Starting with the Bell film. In this version I am using the moment the Presidential limo fully enters the shadow of the Triple Underpass as a marker. This is at 45 seconds in the film. When we roll the film on the camera pans to the right. We see Zapruder and Sitzman are already off the plinth. We then see Mrs Hester starting to get up and no sign of Mr Hester. At 55 seconds I pause the film just before it cuts away and on the right we can see the dark crouching figure of Wiegmen with his fedora on filming Mrs Hester (it is actually closer to 56 seconds so I use a time of 11 seconds from the moment the limo passes into the shadow of the Triple Underpass until the shot of Wiegman filming Mrs Hester)

Now to the Wiegman film. In this version the film starts at 8 seconds and as we let it roll we see the TSBD steps, Wiegman is out of the car and running towards the Hesters, he crouches down and starts filming them, Mr Hester gets up and hides behind one of the columns in the pergola. This is the same moment at 56 seconds in the Bell film. In the Wiegman film this is marked as 32 seconds meaning the total running time of the film is 24 seconds to this point.

Now to Zapruder. I mark the moment the limo passes into the shadow of the Triple Underpass as z471 (27 seconds on this version). We know from the Bell film that 11 seconds after this moment Wiegman is filming Mrs Hester. Knowing that the Wiegman film starts 24 seconds before this point we can work out when the Wiegman film starts in relation to the Zapruder film. Wiegman is filming Mrs Hester 24 seconds after the film starts. If we take 11 seconds off this it gives us the moment the limo has reached the shadow of the Triple Underpass (this is 13 seconds into the Wiegman film but is marked as 21 seconds because the film doesn't start until 8 seconds). It means that when we look at the moment the limo reaches the Triple Underpass in Zapruder we know that Wiegman starts filming 13 seconds before this point. This brings us to 14 seconds in the Zapruder film (z233-z251)

The upshot of all this is that Wiegman starts filming 2-3 seconds after JFK is shot in the back (approximately z223). He is filming before the head-shot which means he captures "Prayer Man" out on the TSBD steps before this moment in contrast to Oswald's own words that he is inside the building for the assassination.
I've always assumed that the head-shot was the third and final shot but something cropped up as I was looking into this that I will follow up on a different thread as it's not really appropriate for this one. Wiegman himself is adamant that as he got out of the car he heard the third shot. In the Wiegman film he is getting out of the car about 8 seconds after the start of the film. In the Zapruder film this is the moment Clint Hill is climbing onto the back of the limo as Jackie moves onto the trunk. If we take Wiegman at face value it indicates that the first shot is the one that hits JFK in the back, the second shot is the head-shot and it is the third shot that misses. Something I will be exploring elsewhere.

[Alan Ford]

Mr O'Meara, a lot of folks have looked at this Altgens-Wiegman synchronisation question very closely. Mr Mark Tyler's outstanding 'Motorcade 63' animated reconstruction is well worth checking out!

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

[John Mytton]

Now! Agent Hosty states clearly that Mr Oswald stated clearly that he 'went outside to watch P. parade'. Apart from the roof, there is literally only one place that can be said to be both in the Texas School Book Despository (i.e. part of the building, not part of the world beyond it) and outside... Have you guessed it yet, Mr Mytton?

That's right! The enclosed front entranceway!

Too bad that the other people who were on the steps all refer to being on the OUTSIDE.

Mr. LOVELADY - That's on the second floor; so, I started going to the domino room where I generally went in to set down and eat and nobody was there and I happened to look on the outside and Mr. Shelley was standing outside with Miss Sarah Stanton, I believe her name is, and I said, "Well, I'll go out there and talk with them, sit down and eat my lunch out there, set on the steps," so I went out there.

Mr. BALL - You were standing where?
Mr. SHELLEY - Just outside the glass doors there.
Mr. BALL - That would be on the top landing of the entrance?
Mr. SHELLEY - yes.

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; not right then I didn't. I say, you know, he was supposed to come by during our lunch hour so you don't get very many chances to see the President of the United States and being an old Texas boy, and [he] never having been down to Texas very much I went out there to see him and just like everybody else was, I was standing on the steps there and watched for the parade to come by and so I did and I stood there until he come by

Sarah Stanton who was on the steps described to the FBI that after hearing the shots "immediately went into the building".



Try again!

JohnM

[John Mytton]

Question What time did you go to lunch?
Oswald   At noon.
Question Where did you go for lunch?
Oswald    I went to the 2nd floor to get a coke then went back to the 1st floor to eat my lunch.
Question Then what happened?
Oswald    I then went outside to watch the Presidents Parade.

Oswald was implying that he had no idea what was happening outside.

Btw under Ford's scenario even Oswald refers to being on the steps as being outside. OUCH that's gotta hurt!

Hahahahaha!

JohnM

[Bill Chapman]

Poor Mr Mytton, your only resort is to trot out your old long-refuted Soopah-Doopah-Mytton-Chestnut!

Mr Oswald never said he was inside the building. He answered in the affirmative when asked if he was 'in' the building. Every time you continue to put the word 'inside' in Mr Oswald's mouth, we see your shameless dishonesty!

Now! Agent Hosty states clearly that Mr Oswald stated clearly that he 'went outside to watch P. parade'. Apart from the roof, there is literally only one place that can be said to be both in the Texas School Book Despository (i.e. part of the building, not part of the world beyond it) and outside... Have you guessed it yet, Mr Mytton?

That's right! The enclosed front entranceway!

That's where Mr Oswald said he was, and the reason he said that was where he was was that that was where he in fact was. And! The reason Captain Fritz and his crooked pals pretended Mr Oswald said he was somewhere other than where he actually said he was..... was that they wanted to frame him for the shooting. And you're still falling for the scam, and devoting yourself to making others fall for it too!

The Hosty note destroys you, Mr Mytton! it's why you tried to argue that Mr Oswald only said he went out to watch the rest of the parade------i.e. the bits that came after JFK! (I am not making this up, folks, it's what poor Mr Mytton actually said!)



 

As for why Mr Oswald didn't scream his assassination-time location at the press, this too has been addressed-----------multiple times! But you, being a propagandist, pretend you never notice.

So! Once more for the benefit of He Who is Too Blind to See and Too Deaf to Hear:

Captain Fritz knows very early on that Mr Oswald was on the front steps. Under pressure to pin the shooting on his suspect, and not one to let trivial questions of basic justice get in the way, all he has to do is tell Mr Oswald: 'Look son, we know you didn't fire the actual shots. But we have you tied to the rifle. And that's what we're charging you with.'

Anyhoo, Mr Mytton, we look forward to seeing you pop up again in a few months with the same old easily-disposable garbage!

 

CT Trial of Lee Harvey Oswald

Mr Oswald: I'm innocent
CT Judge: Okay, you can go
Mr Oswald: [SMIRK]

[Alan J. Ford]

Mr O'Meara, a lot of folks have looked at this Altgens-Wiegman synchronisation question very closely. Mr Mark Tyler's outstanding 'Motorcade 63' animated reconstruction is well worth checking out!

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

As astute as ever, Mr. Ford, no great surprise considering the credible source, who always seems to have an uncanny knack for sharing exemplary research. Appreciate the timely reference material within your shared link.

That said, it's also interesting how you honed right in on semantics. Again, no great surprise given that critical-thinkers like you aren't beholden to tunnel-vision. Your reference to semantics conjured up memories of my youth, where depending upon what region of the country my pappy was working in, the locals would make reference to , quote, " a soft drink, a soda, a pop and/or a tonic" when speaking of Pepsi, Coca-Cola, Dr. Pepper, RC Cola, Root Beer, Vernon Ginger-Ale, etc. So your point at semantics is a valid one. It wouldn't surprise if there are other items out there in our world that are also subject to a matter/manner of speaking depending upon the speaker.

Lastly, an excellent point at no one, and I mean no one has be able to credibly put anyone else in Prayer Man's specific position. They have nothing. That's very telling, especially more so given the revealing revelation in Mr. Hosty's notes. I'm open-minded enough to change my contention that Prayer Mn is in fact the wrongly accused IF someone produces a credible candidate to account for his position.

Any takers up to this challenge?