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Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )  (Read 219357 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1080 on: January 24, 2021, 06:31:19 PM »
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If it was the truth he would have kept repeating it and the other employees would have stated it was true.

So you accept that Mr Oswald did indeed tell Captain Fritz in that first interrogation session that he visited the second floor lunchroom before the motorcade, then went down to one to eat lunch, then "went outside to watch P. Parade". Excellent: this also commits you to accepting that his bombshell claim---------the single most important thing he said in that session----------was deep-sixed by your 'investigator' heroes whose every word you trust.

Let us now formally add Agent Hosty's same-day account to the top of the interrogation report excerpts you posted!  Thumb1:

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Instead he changes his story to finally being on the upper floors working during the assassination and only coming down to see what was causing the "commotion".

Why on earth would he do something so mad? All he'd need do-------on your LNer scenario--------is say he was in the second floor lunchroom or the first floor domino room the whole time. There are no conceivable circumstances under which he would tell Captain Fritz, 'Ok ok, I was on one of the upper floors when the President passed the building'. A ludicrous suggestion!

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A marine who doesn't know what the sound of gunfire sounds like. His ever changing story places him all over the inside of the building but never in verifiable company of anyone else. The coke on the second floor and the encounter with Baker and Trully is LHO's only constant.

A pity it's not Officer Baker's constant...

Besides, as already pointed out, your argument here is dreadfully weak and selective. Inspector Holmes, upon whose account you're relying 100%, is quite clear on where Mr Oswald places the encounter with Mr Truly and a cop: "First floor. Front entrance to the first floor". Which is where DPD themselves were telling the press 11/22 the encounter happened------and where Mr Lovelady told Mr Jarman he saw the encounter happen.

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An encounter that was the result of him coming down the stairs to see what the commotion was all about.

It depends on what 'leaving the building' means. Mr Oswald could have been referring to going down the front steps and out into the street. This is exactly what several people on those steps did.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 06:46:48 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1080 on: January 24, 2021, 06:31:19 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1081 on: January 24, 2021, 06:36:11 PM »
Report of U.S. Postal Inspector H.D. Holmes

"When asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting, he stated that when lunch time came, and he didn't say which floor he was on, he said one of the Negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "You go on down and send the elevator back up and I will join you in a few minutes." Before he could finish whatever he was doing, he stated, the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and when he went down stairs,

He would have heard the shots, the rifle was right by his right ear.

A listing of those present at the only interrogation that Harry Holmes attended....Captain Will Fritz, Forrest Sorrells, Thomas J. Kelley, and four DPD Detectives.

Why didn't the other men who were present at the interrogation record it as Harry Holmes did??    Do you suspect that perhaps Holmes is a liar?

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1082 on: January 24, 2021, 07:26:17 PM »
So you accept that Mr Oswald did indeed tell Captain Fritz in that first interrogation session that he visited the second floor lunchroom before the motorcade, then went down to one to eat lunch, then "went outside to watch P. Parade". Excellent: this also commits you to accepting that his bombshell claim---------the single most important thing he said in that session----------was deep-sixed by your 'investigator' heroes whose every word you trust.

Let us now formally add Agent Hosty's same-day account to the top of the interrogation report excerpts you posted!  Thumb1:

Why on earth would he do something so mad? All he'd need do-------on your LNer scenario--------is say he was in the second floor lunchroom or the first floor domino room the whole time. There are no conceivable circumstances under which he would tell Captain Fritz, 'Ok ok, I was on one of the upper floors when the President passed the building'. A ludicrous suggestion!

A pity it's not Officer Baker's constant...

Besides, as already pointed out, your argument here is dreadfully weak and selective. Inspector Holmes, upon whose account you're relying 100%, is quite clear on where Mr Oswald places the encounter with Mr Truly and a cop: "First floor. Front entrance to the first floor". Which is where DPD themselves were telling the press 11/22 the encounter happened------and where Mr Lovelady told Mr Jarman he saw the encounter happen.

It depends on what 'leaving the building' means. Mr Oswald could have been referring to going down the front steps and out into the street. This is exactly what several people on those steps did.

All of his statements should be relatively similar and they are not. It is not about one statement it is the sum total LHO's statements and how they evolved from having lunch with coworkers to not having lunch at all. He would have known his statements would not be corroborated and they weren't.  Media influence is not an issue as with other witness statements. He would have known his coworkers were having lunch on the first and second floor. He ultimately changes his story to distancing himself from contact with them based on him asking them to send the elevator back which was the truth. The other truth is the lunch room encounter which took place on the second floor. Which he states he descended down the stairs to the encounter. It did not take him long to abandon the idea he was ever outside let alone watching the parade. His later statements do not place him outside until he is leaving the area. No witnesses back up his lunch time story.

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1082 on: January 24, 2021, 07:26:17 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1083 on: January 24, 2021, 08:28:43 PM »
All of his statements should be relatively similar and they are not. It is not about one statement it is the sum total LHO's statements and how they evolved from having lunch with coworkers to not having lunch at all.

Do you believe, based on a comparison of Agent Hosty's and Agent Bookhout's respective solo reports, that Mr Oswald gave two completely different stories within one and the same interrogation (i.e. the first one @ 3:15pm 11/22)?

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He would have known his statements would not be corroborated and they weren't.  Media influence is not an issue as with other witness statements. He would have known his coworkers were having lunch on the first and second floor. He ultimately changes his story to distancing himself from contact with them based on him asking them to send the elevator back which was the truth. The other truth is the lunch room encounter which took place on the second floor. Which he states he descended down the stairs to the encounter. It did not take him long to abandon the idea he was ever outside let alone watching the parade. His later statements do not place him outside until he is leaving the area. No witnesses back up his lunch time story.

None of this 'I believe the authorities' spiel addresses a single point I made. You are just ignoring anything that doesn't fit your chosen story.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1084 on: January 24, 2021, 08:44:16 PM »
Do you believe, based on a comparison of Agent Hosty's and Agent Bookhout's respective solo reports, that Mr Oswald gave two completely different stories within one and the same interrogation (i.e. the first one @ 3:15pm 11/22)?

None of this 'I believe the authorities' spiel addresses a single point I made. You are just ignoring anything that doesn't fit your chosen story.

Now! Here are two different accounts of a key exchange during the morning 11/23 interrogation session---------

Agent Bookhout, 11/23 interrogation report:
"OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in the lunch room at the Texas School Book Depository, alone, but recalled possibly two Negro employees walking through the room during this period. He stated possibly one of these employees was called 'Junior' and the other was a short individual whose name he could not recall but whom he would be able to recognize. He stated that his lunch consisted of a cheese sandwich and an apple..."

Inspector Kelley, 11/23 interrogation report:
"He said he ate his lunch with the colored boys who worked with him. He described one of them as 'Junior', a colored boy, and the other was a little short negro boy. He said his lunch consisted of cheese, bread, fruit, and apples..."

According to Mr Nessan's LNer interpretive methodology, the discrepancies between the two accounts are Mr Oswald's fault----------because he must have changed his story mid-session (a fact not noted by anyone present...)!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 08:45:56 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1084 on: January 24, 2021, 08:44:16 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1085 on: January 24, 2021, 09:41:34 PM »
If it was the truth he would have kept repeating it and the other employees would have stated it was true. Instead he changes his story to finally being on the upper floors working during the assassination and only coming down to see what was causing the "commotion".  A marine who doesn't know what the sound of gunfire sounds like. His ever changing story places him all over the inside of the building but never in verifiable company of anyone else. The coke on the second floor and the encounter with Baker and Trully is LHO's only constant. An encounter that was the result of him coming down the stairs to see what the commotion was all about.

'An encounter that was the result of him coming down the stairs to see what the commotion was all about'.
>>> An encounter that was the result of him leaving the scene of his crime after the commotion he caused.

There ya go.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 09:45:02 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1086 on: January 24, 2021, 09:54:07 PM »
It depends on what 'leaving the building' means. Mr Oswald could have been referring to going down the front steps and out into the street. This is exactly what several people on those steps did.

And it would appear that this is exactly what Mr Oswald DID mean. Inspector Kelley's report on the same Sunday morning interrogation has Mr Oswald tell of a young crew-cut man rushing up to him "when he was standing in front of the Textbook building and about to leave it".

How can one be in front of a building without yet having left it? Easy-----------one is in the front entranceway!  Thumb1:

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1086 on: January 24, 2021, 09:54:07 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1087 on: January 24, 2021, 10:02:33 PM »
Now! Here are two different accounts of a key exchange during the morning 11/23 interrogation session---------

Agent Bookhout, 11/23 interrogation report:
"OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in the lunch room at the Texas School Book Depository, alone, but recalled possibly two Negro employees walking through the room during this period. He stated possibly one of these employees was called 'Junior' and the other was a short individual whose name he could not recall but whom he would be able to recognize. He stated that his lunch consisted of a cheese sandwich and an apple..."

Inspector Kelley, 11/23 interrogation report:
"He said he ate his lunch with the colored boys who worked with him. He described one of them as 'Junior', a colored boy, and the other was a little short negro boy. He said his lunch consisted of cheese, bread, fruit, and apples..."

According to Mr Nessan's LNer interpretive methodology, the discrepancies between the two accounts are Mr Oswald's fault----------because he must have changed his story mid-session (a fact not noted by anyone present...)!

Excellent rebuttal , Mr Ford....

I asked you a couple of days back if Bookhout had scribbled in his notes that Lee had told them that he was eating his lunch ALONE in the first floor lunchroom, and you replied that you hadn't posted the notes....

Now you post the typed report of Bookhout.....

Agent Bookhout, 11/23 interrogation report:
"OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in the lunch room at the Texas School Book Depository, alone,

ALONE   Lee told them that he was ALONE in that lunchroom.....
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 10:51:23 PM by Walt Cakebread »