Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )  (Read 17139 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #870 on: January 12, 2021, 10:35:05 PM »
It is pure conjecture what “the door” refers to.

FWIW..... IMO It seems clear to me that she was referring to the door at the back of the office area. The door that  is at the south end of the foyer which was at the west end of the 2nd floor lunch room.

It only 'seems clear' for the same reason it 'seems clear' that a jacket-wearing "man walking away from the stairway" on "the third or fourth floor" refers to a non-jacket-wearing man seen through a small window in a closed door leading to the door to a lunchroom on the second floor; or that the words "Then went outside to watch P. Parade" cannot possibly refer to the act of going outside to watch the Presidential Parade
-------------i.e. the official story so dominates the researcher's psyche that said psyche has long since lost the ability to even imagine any other scenario.

All LNers suffer from this sad syndrome; many CTers do to!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 10:39:10 PM by Alan Ford »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #871 on: January 13, 2021, 12:29:33 AM »
It only 'seems clear' for the same reason it 'seems clear' that a jacket-wearing "man walking away from the stairway" on "the third or fourth floor" refers to a non-jacket-wearing man seen through a small window in a closed door leading to the door to a lunchroom on the second floor; or that the words "Then went outside to watch P. Parade" cannot possibly refer to the act of going outside to watch the Presidential Parade
-------------i.e. the official story so dominates the researcher's psyche that said psyche has long since lost the ability to even imagine any other scenario.

All LNers suffer from this sad syndrome; many CTers do to!

It only 'seems clear' for the same reason it 'seems clear' that a jacket-wearing "man walking away from the stairway" on "the third or fourth floor" refers to a non-jacket-wearing man seen through a small window in a closed door leading to the door to a lunchroom on the second floor;]

Pssssst, Alan. I've long ago rejected the nonsense the Lee was the man that Baker saw on either the third or fourth floor.

I believe that Baker was wrong about the floor that he saw a 165 pound man who was wearing a tan jacket who was WALKING AWAY FROM THE STAIRS .........on  the fifth floor.

Clearly Baker's description of the man DID NOT fit Lee Oswald, nor did the location fit the second floor lunchroom.....The 165 pound man who was wearing a tan jacket was NOT Lee Oswald.   The encounter with Lee in the second floor lunchroom was so innocuous that Baker completely dismissed that encounter when he was informed that he may may have encountered the assassin in the TSBD when he dashed through the building immediately following the shooting.  Since the 165 pound man (who was on the 5th floor) was acting suspicious and trying to avoid being seen when Baker yelled at him and told him to "Come here"  .....THAT was the man that Baker thought may have been the assassin when he wrote his affidavit.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 02:36:37 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #872 on: January 13, 2021, 02:47:43 PM »
It only 'seems clear' for the same reason it 'seems clear' that a jacket-wearing "man walking away from the stairway" on "the third or fourth floor" refers to a non-jacket-wearing man seen through a small window in a closed door leading to the door to a lunchroom on the second floor;]

Pssssst, Alan. I've long ago rejected the nonsense the Lee was the man that Baker saw on either the third or fourth floor.

I believe that Baker was wrong about the floor that he saw a 165 pound man who was wearing a tan jacket who was WALKING AWAY FROM THE STAIRS .........on  the fifth floor.

Clearly Baker's description of the man DID NOT fit Lee Oswald, nor did the location fit the second floor lunchroom.....The 165 pound man who was wearing a tan jacket was NOT Lee Oswald.   The encounter with Lee in the second floor lunchroom was so innocuous that Baker completely dismissed that encounter when he was informed that he may may have encountered the assassin in the TSBD when he dashed through the building immediately following the shooting.  Since the 165 pound man (who was on the 5th floor) was acting suspicious and trying to avoid being seen when Baker yelled at him and told him to "Come here"  .....THAT was the man that Baker thought may have been the assassin when he wrote his affidavit.

P.S....  Baker was in the Homicide office when he wrote out his affidavit.....   And Lee Oswald passed right in front of him at that time. ( Lee was being escorted to an interrogation with Capt. Fritz)    So why didn't Baker simply tell the interrogators that the man being escorted was the man that he had stopped on "either the 3rd or 4th floor" ?    Or why didn't he give an accurate description of Lee Oswald if he thought that Lee was the 165 pound man that he had stopped?

I believe that there were TWO different men and TWO different places involved..... And the first encounter of the 131 pound Lee Oswald in the second floor lunchroom was so innocuous that Baker completely dismissed that man as a suspect.   

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #873 on: January 13, 2021, 08:43:08 PM »
P.S....  Baker was in the Homicide office when he wrote out his affidavit.....   And Lee Oswald passed right in front of him at that time. ( Lee was being escorted to an interrogation with Capt. Fritz)    So why didn't Baker simply tell the interrogators that the man being escorted was the man that he had stopped on "either the 3rd or 4th floor" ?    Or why didn't he give an accurate description of Lee Oswald if he thought that Lee was the 165 pound man that he had stopped?

Very worth noting!  Thumb1:

But by the same token-----------

If while giving the affidavit Officer Baker sees a man being brought in in handcuffs, and remembers having encountered this heavily guarded suspect at a lunchroom on the second floor shortly after the assassination, why on earth does his affidavit not make mention of this very significant fact?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 02:00:48 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #874 on: January 13, 2021, 08:55:40 PM »
Near-horizontal bottle in front of Lovelady shirt------------------

« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 08:56:23 PM by Alan Ford »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #875 on: January 14, 2021, 01:10:40 AM »
Very worth noting!  Thumb1:

But by the same token-----------

If while giving the affidavit Officer Baker sees a man being brought in in handcuffs, and remembers having encountered this suspect at a lunchroom on the second floor shortly after the assassination, why on earth does his affidavit not make mention of this very significant fact in the affidavit?

why on earth does his affidavit not make mention of this very significant fact in the affidavit?

Good question.....   And I believe the reason that Baker didn't recall seeing Lee Oswald and the lunchroom encounter....is Because, it was so quick and uneventful that he simply dismissed the entire event.  After writing the affidavit he received more details about the suspect and was told that the suspect had murdered a fellow police officer. so he simply closed ranks and said whatever his superior officers wanted him to say.
 

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #876 on: January 14, 2021, 01:59:35 PM »
why on earth does his affidavit not make mention of this very significant fact in the affidavit?

Good question.....   And I believe the reason that Baker didn't recall seeing Lee Oswald and the lunchroom encounter....is Because, it was so quick and uneventful that he simply dismissed the entire event.  After writing the affidavit he received more details about the suspect and was told that the suspect had murdered a fellow police officer. so he simply closed ranks and said whatever his superior officers wanted him to say.

Mr Cakebread, your fine analysis here leaves you just one step away from recognizing the obvious truth of the lunchroom encounter story told by Mr Truly and Officer Baker: it never happened.

Officer Baker takes a long time before he goes on the record to confirm any lunchroom encounter. Meanwhile, the only LHO-cop encounter DPD are telling press about in the hours after the assassination is an encounter at the front entrance. Mr Billy Lovelady tells Mr James Jarman that he saw Mr Oswald confronted by an officer at the front entrance. And Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes hears Mr Oswald himself talk about an encounter there too ("First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.").

The lunchroom story was concocted at some point late 11/22 in order to get Mr Oswald away from that front entrance----------and to explain away the man encountered walking away from the stairway halfway up the building.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 02:23:33 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #877 on: January 14, 2021, 02:22:18 PM »
The question is: where did Mr Oswald dispose of his empty coke bottle?

If he went back up to the second floor lunchroom to put it in the empties crate, at a time several minutes after the assassination when "everybody was walking and milling and so forth" in the office area, could this have been the time he and Ms Reid had their real encounter?

In 2013 Mr Buell Wesley Frazier told the late Mr Gary Mack that, some 5 or 10 minutes after the shooting, he saw Mr Oswald walking south by the Houston St side of the Depository and then crossing Houston & then Elm before disappearing from sight. Mr Frazier was emphatic that Mr Oswald could not have exited via the front entrance but must have done so via the back dock.

If he's correct about all this, and if my surmise about the true timing of the Reid encounter is correct, we get the following:

1. Mr Oswald buys Coke in lunchroom
2. Mr Oswald goes down to one to eat
3. Mr Oswald goes outside to watch the P. Parade, and is on the front steps at the time of the shooting
4. Mr Oswald----seconds later----has an exchange by the front door with Officer Baker (before Mr Truly comes up)----Officer Baker is asking him "Do you work here?" because he needs someone to point him to the nearest stairs
5. Mr Oswald----some minutes later----goes back up to two to leave his empty Coke bottle in the crate (and is noticed on his way there by Ms Reid, who speaks briefly with him)
6. Mr Oswald goes back down to one and exits by the rear dock
7. Mr Oswald is seen by Mr Frazier leaving the area

On 11/23 Chief Jesse Curry told reporters that an officer had spotted Mr Oswald in the lunchroom in the presence of several other employees. It is possible therefore that we need add another item to the above timeline:

5a. Officer Baker, on his way back downstairs from the roof with Mr Truly, sticks his head in the lunchroom door and asks Mr Truly, "Do all these people work here?" or somesuch. One of the people in the lunchroom is Mr Oswald, who is there to deposit the empty bottle in the crate.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #878 on: January 14, 2021, 06:52:10 PM »
In 2013 Mr Buell Wesley Frazier told the late Mr Gary Mack that, some 5 or 10 minutes after the shooting, he saw Mr Oswald walking south by the Houston St side of the Depository and then crossing Houston & then Elm before disappearing from sight. Mr Frazier was emphatic that Mr Oswald could not have exited via the front entrance but must have done so via the back dock.

If he's correct about all this, and if my surmise about the true timing of the Reid encounter is correct, we get the following:

1. Mr Oswald buys Coke in lunchroom
2. Mr Oswald goes down to one to eat
3. Mr Oswald goes outside to watch the P. Parade, and is on the front steps at the time of the shooting
4. Mr Oswald----seconds later----has an exchange by the front door with Officer Baker (before Mr Truly comes up)----Officer Baker is asking him "Do you work here?" because he needs someone to point him to the nearest stairs
5. Mr Oswald----some minutes later----goes back up to two to leave his empty Coke bottle in the crate (and is noticed on his way there by Ms Reid, who speaks briefly with him)
6. Mr Oswald goes back down to one and exits by the rear dock
7. Mr Oswald is seen by Mr Frazier leaving the area

On 11/23 Chief Jesse Curry told reporters that an officer had spotted Mr Oswald in the lunchroom in the presence of several other employees. It is possible therefore that we need add another item to the above timeline:

5a. Officer Baker, on his way back downstairs from the roof with Mr Truly, sticks his head in the lunchroom door and asks Mr Truly, "Do all these people work here?" or somesuch. One of the people in the lunchroom is Mr Oswald, who is there to deposit the empty bottle in the crate.

4. Mr Oswald----seconds later----has an exchange by the front door with Officer Baker (before Mr Truly comes up)----Officer Baker is asking him "Do you work here?" because he needs someone to point him to the nearest stairs

I hope you will see that this idea isn't probable.....  Because.... Baker didn't need anybody to direct guide him through the building as he approached the front steps.  He probably expected to find an elevator just inside the door ( which in fact there was ) But he wouldn't have asked for a guide or directions BEFORE he entered the building.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 08:19:41 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #879 on: January 14, 2021, 07:27:59 PM »
In 2013 Mr Buell Wesley Frazier told the late Mr Gary Mack that, some 5 or 10 minutes after the shooting, he saw Mr Oswald walking south by the Houston St side of the Depository and then crossing Houston & then Elm before disappearing from sight. Mr Frazier was emphatic that Mr Oswald could not have exited via the front entrance but must have done so via the back dock.

If he's correct about all this, and if my surmise about the true timing of the Reid encounter is correct, we get the following:

1. Mr Oswald buys Coke in lunchroom
2. Mr Oswald goes down to one to eat
3. Mr Oswald goes outside to watch the P. Parade, and is on the front steps at the time of the shooting
4. Mr Oswald----seconds later----has an exchange by the front door with Officer Baker (before Mr Truly comes up)----Officer Baker is asking him "Do you work here?" because he needs someone to point him to the nearest stairs
5. Mr Oswald----some minutes later----goes back up to two to leave his empty Coke bottle in the crate (and is noticed on his way there by Ms Reid, who speaks briefly with him)
6. Mr Oswald goes back down to one and exits by the rear dock
7. Mr Oswald is seen by Mr Frazier leaving the area

On 11/23 Chief Jesse Curry told reporters that an officer had spotted Mr Oswald in the lunchroom in the presence of several other employees. It is possible therefore that we need add another item to the above timeline:

5a. Officer Baker, on his way back downstairs from the roof with Mr Truly, sticks his head in the lunchroom door and asks Mr Truly, "Do all these people work here?" or somesuch. One of the people in the lunchroom is Mr Oswald, who is there to deposit the empty bottle in the crate.

On 11/23 Chief Jesse Curry told reporters that an officer had spotted Mr Oswald in the lunchroom

Do you have a video of Curry's press briefing ?

 

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