Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )

[Walt Cakebread]

From Officer Baker's WC testimony:

Mr. BAKER - As I was in the homicide office there writing this, giving this affidavit, I got hung in one of those little small offices back there, while the Secret Service took Mr. Oswald in there and questioned him and I couldn't get out by him while they were questioning him, and I did get to see him at that time.

Picture the scene, friends: Officer Baker is giving his affidavit. He has one memorable encounter he really needs to tell: the man walking away from the rear stairway on "the third or fourth floor". Why does he need to tell this? Why, because he now----in retrospect----must wonder might this man have been a fleeing assassin after all. The fact that he describes the man's physical appearance at the end of his affidavit proves that he now worries that this was no ordinary innocent employee.

But! As he is giving the affidavit, a man is brought in-----in handcuffs and heavily guarded.

What happens next?

Scenario A: Officer Baker recognizes the man as the man he caught walking away from the stairway on the third or fourth floor, and------with all the time he has to note this crucial fact------seals the deal by getting this noted in the affidavit he is in the process of giving.

Scenario B: Officer Baker recognizes the man, not as the man he caught walking away from the stairway on the third or fourth floor, but as a man he checked out in a lunchroom on the second floor. He says to the person taking his affidavit, "This guy's the suspect? Damn, we need to start over."

Scenario C: Officer Baker does not recognize the man from Adam and finishes giving his affidavit, whose central character remains the man he caught walking away from the stairway on the third or fourth floor,.

Scenario D: Officer Baker recognizes the man, not as the man he caught walking away from the stairway on the third or fourth floor, but as a man he encountered fleetingly at the front entrance as he was running into the building. He tells this to the person taking his affidavit, and this encounter is duly mentioned in the (continued or fresh) affidavit.

Scenario E: Officer Baker recognizes the man, not as the man he caught walking away from the stairway on the third or fourth floor, but as a man he encountered fleetingly at the front entrance as he was running into the building. He tells this to the person taking his affidavit, and this encounter is NOT mentioned in the (continued or fresh) affidavit.

Which of the above scenarios is consistent with the affidavit as we have it, and which not?



 

The fact that he describes the man's physical appearance at the end of his affidavit proves that he now worries that this was no ordinary innocent employee. 

Excellent observation.....I like this observation, Mr Ford...  But I think the word "proves" is a bit strong.   

The fact that he describes the man's physical appearance at the end of his affidavit proves could indicate that he now worries that this was no ordinary innocent employee.  I think your right and Baker was definitely recalling to his minds eye the description of the man that he suspected, and the location where he had seen that "dark haired, 165 pound man who was wearing a light brown (tan or khaki ) jacket.

Since Baker wrote his affidavit several hours after the fleeting encounter he could easily have been mistaken about which floor
it was where he had seen the man furtively trying to avoid being seen. We know that Baker couldn't have seen the fugitive on the third or fourth floor because there were many people on those floors who would have seen and such activity.....I believe that Baker saw the man on the fifth floor, and Jack Dougherty was also there but Baker didn't see Dougherty, who had ducked out of sight.       

[Walt Cakebread]

From Officer Baker's WC testimony:

Mr. BAKER - As I was in the homicide office there writing this, giving this affidavit, I got hung in one of those little small offices back there, while the Secret Service took Mr. Oswald in there and questioned him and I couldn't get out by him while they were questioning him, and I did get to see him at that time.

Picture the scene, friends: Officer Baker is giving his affidavit. He has one memorable encounter he really needs to tell: the man walking away from the rear stairway on "the third or fourth floor". Why does he need to tell this? Why, because he now----in retrospect----must wonder might this man have been a fleeing assassin after all. The fact that he describes the man's physical appearance at the end of his affidavit proves that he now worries that this was no ordinary innocent employee.

But! As he is giving the affidavit, a man is brought in-----in handcuffs and heavily guarded.

What happens next?

Scenario A: Officer Baker recognizes the man as the man he caught walking away from the stairway on the third or fourth floor, and------with all the time he has to note this crucial fact------seals the deal by getting this noted in the affidavit he is in the process of giving.

Scenario B: Officer Baker recognizes the man, not as the man he caught walking away from the stairway on the third or fourth floor, but as a man he checked out in a lunchroom on the second floor. He says to the person taking his affidavit, "This guy's the suspect? Damn, we need to start over."

Scenario C: Officer Baker does not recognize the man from Adam and finishes giving his affidavit, whose central character remains the man he caught walking away from the stairway on the third or fourth floor,.

Scenario D: Officer Baker recognizes the man, not as the man he caught walking away from the stairway on the third or fourth floor, but as a man he encountered fleetingly at the front entrance as he was running into the building. He tells this to the person taking his affidavit, and this encounter is duly mentioned in the (continued or fresh) affidavit.

Scenario E: Officer Baker recognizes the man, not as the man he caught walking away from the stairway on the third or fourth floor, but as a man he encountered fleetingly at the front entrance as he was running into the building. He tells this to the person taking his affidavit, and this encounter is NOT mentioned in the (continued or fresh) affidavit.

Which of the above scenarios is consistent with the affidavit as we have it, and which not?



 

Could you post Baker's complete affidavit .......  I believe this is the affidavit that is a blatant attempt to purge the coke issue from the record.

[Alan Ford]

Scenario C: Officer Baker does not recognize the man from Adam and finishes giving his affidavit, whose central character remains the man he caught walking away from the stairway on the third or fourth floor,.

Read his affidavit...... Does his description of the man fit Lee Oswald?     Does the site of the encounter fit the second floor lunchroom?

Agreed! Scenario C is one of the scenarios compatible with the affidavit Officer Baker signs his name to. 

[Alan Ford]

"After I had entered the door"

I doubt that you believe that Baker "entered the door"   ( Like casper the ghost, .....Went right into the wood of the door)   Any rational person would understand that Baker meant to say.... as I entered the building through the door......

The operative word still being................."as"

Again I have to ask: how many people would have been "standing around" in front lobby some 30 seconds after the last shot? Who could they possibly have been?

[Bill Chapman]

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm

MARRION BAKER AFFIDAVIT

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared M. L. Baker, Patrolman Dallas Police Department who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

s/ M. L. Baker
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963
/s/ Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

[Alan Ford]

The fact that he describes the man's physical appearance at the end of his affidavit proves that he now worries that this was no ordinary innocent employee. 

Excellent observation.....I like this observation, Mr Ford...  But I think the word "proves" is a bit strong.   

The fact that he describes the man's physical appearance at the end of his affidavit proves could indicate that he now worries that this was no ordinary innocent employee.

I see where you're coming from, Mr Cakebread, but I used the word "proves" because I can think of no other logical reason why Officer Baker would close his affidavit by returning to the man by the rear stairway.

I think your right and Baker was definitely recalling to his minds eye the description of the man that he suspected, and the location where he had seen that "dark haired, 165 pound man who was wearing a light brown (tan or khaki ) jacket.

Since Baker wrote his affidavit several hours after the fleeting encounter he could easily have been mistaken about which floor
it was where he had seen the man furtively trying to avoid being seen. We know that Baker couldn't have seen the fugitive on the third or fourth floor because there were many people on those floors who would have seen and such activity.....

Who on the third floor would have seen them?

[Alan Ford]

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm

MARRION BAKER AFFIDAVIT

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared M. L. Baker, Patrolman Dallas Police Department who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around.

Exactly-------he doesn't say "Just after I entered I saw" or anything like that. He uses the word "as". 

I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor

Exactly! 

I saw a man walking away from the stairway.

Exactly! 

I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

Exactly! 

[Bill Chapman]

I've noticed you are really pedantic about little details and I wonder if you're familiar with the concept of sarcasm. Sarcasm can be seen as saying something that  is completely the opposite of what you actually mean as a way to emphasise what you actually mean. To clarify - I'm not actually asking you to believe that Oswald is out front with all his work colleagues interacting in a positive way with them as if he was a really sociable, easy-going guy. I'm actually saying the opposite thing. I honestly thought this would be totally clear as the whole post up to that moment was a litany of testimonial evidence demonstrating how Oswald was perceived as, for want of a better word, unsociable. Statement after statement clearly demonstrating (or so I thought) that Oswald didn't like the company of his work colleagues. As I thought it was blindingly obvious, in the light of the substantial amount of evidence on display, that Oswald would rather blow his own brains out than spend time with his work colleagues, I made up a non-existent, sarcastic scenario to emphasise this point. (when I say "blow his own brains out" this is not sarcasm, this is a 'figure of speech' and is not to be taken literally).
The addition of William Shelley in this scenario was an extrapolation made from Oswald's supposed testimony as recorded in Fritz's notes where he specifically singles out William Shelley - "out with Bill Shelley in front"
The bit at the end where I say "Mind you it was a lovely day and Jackie did look gorgeous in pink" is also sarcasm. I'll keep it to a minimum if future.

"Where do you get "contempt"?"

If you were to approach a work colleague and said "Good Morning" in a friendly way and that person, even though they heard you, didn't react in any way. They just blanked your existence. What word do you use for that? I use 'contempt'.

"Or he was just a shy introvert"

You believe the testimonies of all those work colleagues are describing a shy person? If a person is shy you use the word 'shy' to describe them. Show me one example, from the copious amount of testimony about Oswald, where one of his colleagues uses the word 'shy'.
Oswald in an antisocial, arrogant loser.

"Mind you it was a lovely day and Jackie did look gorgeous in pink" is also sarcasm.
>> Kinda, sorta... maybe more like 'bitter irony'

'Aside from that Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?'