Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )

[Dan O'meara]

In respect to the 2nd floor encounter in the lunchroom w/the wrongly accused, It did not happen. It's that simple really. First, let's take into account the actual truth before a hastily contrived script after the fact rears its deceptive offerings:

Marrion Baker's same day affidavit (bold emphasis mine to illustrate a key point ---->

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared M. L. Baker, Patrolman Dallas Police Department who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

s/ M. L. Baker

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963

/s/ Mary Rattan

Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

Baker's same day statement alone sums up the actual truth when compared to a hastily contrived script that follows a day later. Moreover, the wrongly accused did Not, repeat did not fit Mr. Baker's description (the wrongly accused weighed in 34lbs less than the individual Baker actually encounters. Again, the wrongly accused weighed only 131lbs, nowhere near 34lbs heavier. Also, it's important to note, the individual was, quote, "walking away from the stairway". What part of this observation substantiates an encounter in a room, let alone a lunchroom floors below?

Again, What part of walking away from a stairway has anything to do with being inside a lunchroom? 

The phantom 2nd floor encounter w/the wrongly accused is just that, phantom "evidence" mired knee deep in horse manure amid a hastily contrived script the day after to frame an innocent party.

The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.

You're completely missing the point Alan.
You argue how unlikely the "official" version of things is but the point I'm making is how utterly ridiculous the "Second Floor Encounter Hoax" is. It's utterly pathetic. In an earlier post I've already demonstrated how easy it would be to construct an airtight fake encounter. How can you account for how many people are involved in this so-called hoax? How can you account for how the hoaxers contradict each other? Who is directing this hoax?
As for your point about Baker, if, as people like yourself point out, Baker is in the same room as Oswald when he gives his affidavit, why is his description of the man he encountered different from the man sat right in front of him?

[Alan J. Ford]

You're completely missing the point Alan.
You argue how unlikely the "official" version of things is but the point I'm making is how utterly ridiculous the "Second Floor Encounter Hoax" is. It's utterly pathetic. In an earlier post I've already demonstrated how easy it would be to construct an airtight fake encounter. How can you account for how many people are involved in this so-called hoax? How can you account for how the hoaxers contradict each other? Who is directing this hoax?
As for your point about Baker, if, as people like yourself point out, Baker is in the same room as Oswald when he gives his affidavit, why is his description of the man he encountered different from the man sat right in front of him?

Good afternoon, Mr. O'meara

Until actual evidence presents itself that at least one more person--besides Mr. Piper (Eddie) actually confirms they saw the tandem of Baker & Roy Truly ascend the backstairs together it did not happen. Moreover, what's most disturbing about even Mr. Piper's acknowledgment of them being together is the following statements ---->

Mr. BALL. You mentioned you saw Truly?
Mr. PIPER. I don't know whether it was a policeman or FBI or who it was, but another fellow was with him.
Mr. BALL And where were you?
Mr. PIPER. Standing right there where they make coffee.

Critical thinkers--given Mr. Piper's expressed doubt about just who he sees w/Roy Truly are left to wonder why he cannot simply confirm he saw a white helmeted motorcycle officer in long black boots w/Roy Truly IF indeed the tandem were together.

I do believe that Baker and Roy Truly came together at some point that afternoon (just not the timing sequence pushed by the hastily contrived script to frame an innocent party). I believe they encountered the MUCH larger man (165lbs) than the wrongly accused (131lbs) on an upper floor beyond the 2nd floor lunchroom, let alone inside it.  However, once the hastily contrived script raises its deceptive head the next day to reinvent. revise and ignore the same day events, the stench of horse manure becomes rather obvious.

Then there's this exchange ----> 

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

Critical-thinkers are left to wonder what exactly was Roy Truly up to over in the sniper's nest BEFORE the gun and shell casings were found...

Again, I would believe the exploits of Baker & Roy Truly if more than a single lone person can account for them being near the backstairs together. Only Mr. Piper, 1-69 witnesses does so. I will never be convinced that Ms. Adams, etc were deaf and/or blind to account for the reason they didn't bear witness to seeing the tandem together.

Still wondering aloud why Roy Truly was over in the sniper's nest BEFORE the gun and shell casings were found. Hmm

[Dan O'meara]

Good afternoon, Mr. O'meara

Until actual evidence presents itself that at least one more person--besides Mr. Piper (Eddie) actually confirms they saw the tandem of Baker & Roy Truly ascend the backstairs together it did not happen. Moreover, what's most disturbing about even Mr. Piper's acknowledgment of them being together is the following statements ---->

Mr. BALL. You mentioned you saw Truly?
Mr. PIPER. I don't know whether it was a policeman or FBI or who it was, but another fellow was with him.
Mr. BALL And where were you?
Mr. PIPER. Standing right there where they make coffee.

Critical thinkers--given Mr. Piper's expressed doubt about just who he sees w/Roy Truly are left to wonder why he cannot simply confirm he saw a white helmeted motorcycle officer in long black boots w/Roy Truly IF indeed the tandem were together.

Good evening Mr. Ford

You must surely be aware of the Stroud Document which contains a reference to Dorothy Garner seeing Truly and a policeman coming up the stairs. As we now have the evidence you seek we can conclude the ascent of Truly and Baker did happen.

I do believe that Baker and Roy Truly came together at some point that afternoon (just not the timing sequence pushed by the hastily contrived script to frame an innocent party). I believe they encountered the MUCH larger man (165lbs) than the wrongly accused (131lbs) on an upper floor beyond the 2nd floor lunchroom, let alone inside it.  However, once the hastily contrived script raises its deceptive head the next day to reinvent. revise and ignore the same day events, the stench of horse manure becomes rather obvious.

In a conversation with Barry Ernest, Garner states that Adams and Styles left the fourth floor window almost immediately, something confirmed by both Styles and Adams. She followed them out of the office to a storage area and heard them clattering down the stairs. Shortly afterwards she saw Truly and the policeman come up. Entirely in keeping with Truly and Baker's testimony concerning the timing of their ascent. As she was in the storage area other women from the office entered to look through the west windows down on to the railroad area. This is confirmed by Bonnie Ray Williams who states seeing these women at the window as he, Jarman and Norman descended the stairs. Interestingly, before descending the stairs from the fifth floor, Williams testifies to seeing a white-helmeted officer on the fifth. Again, in keeping with the testimonies of Truly and Baker. The timings of these interactions fit perfectly with the ascent of Truly and Baker.
However, what really interests me is the "hastily contrived script" as you put it. I'd like to know who put it together and the timeline of it.

Then there's this exchange ----> 

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

Critical-thinkers are left to wonder what exactly was Roy Truly up to over in the sniper's nest BEFORE the gun and shell casings were found...

Again, I would believe the exploits of Baker & Roy Truly if more than a single lone person can account for them being near the backstairs together. Only Mr. Piper, 1-69 witnesses does so. I will never be convinced that Ms. Adams, etc were deaf and/or blind to account for the reason they didn't bear witness to seeing the tandem together.

Still wondering aloud why Roy Truly was over in the sniper's nest BEFORE the gun and shell casings were found. Hmm

Adams and Styles were down the stairs and out the back door before Baker and Truly got there which is why they didn't see Baker and Truly.
It is interesting that Truly seems to state he was mooching around the sixth floor before the gun and shell casings were found. I'm going to look into that out of curiosity but it has nothing to do with the matter I'd like to pursue - who came up with the hastily contrived script and how did it come together in it's final form.
Any thoughts?

[Zeon Mason]

Pertaining to the Dorothy Garner time line of exiting the 4th floor office side door and having an unobstructed LOS to the rear stair, I estimated the time not later than 35 sec post shots.

1. Adams and Styles did leave the office as early as 10 sec post shots (hence their absence at the one open window of 4th floor in the Dillard photo) and reached the 1st floor, using the rear staircase  by 60 secs post shots. They exited 1st floor via  a roll up door right beside the stairs and the west elevator. Thus they neither saw, or were seen by,Baker and Truly as B/T began their diagonal approach across the 1st floor towards the rear stair and elevators at approx 65 sec post shots

2. For Mrs Garner to have a reasonable probability of having heard.”THEM” (ie; voices or some kind of specific noise like heels clacking,) , requires Mrs Garner arriving to the west window 4th floor just beside the rear staircase not later than approx 50 sec post shots.
The noises/voices heard were possibly transmitted via the open west elevator shaft ( the elevator being locked on the 5th floor) from Adams and Styles on the 2nd floor , passing by the elevator shaft.
Note: it is doubtful if voices at normal talking decibel range ( as opposed to shouting like Truly did) could be transmitted up an elevator shaft 4 floors below and heard by Garner some 25 ft away from the shaft on the 4th floor.

3.Therefore the lowest probable floor to have voice transmission heard is the  2nd floor passing by the west elevator shaft at 50 sec post shots by Adams and Styles

4. The distance from the 4th floor side office door to the staircase is approx 70 ft and if Mrs Garner walked at a normal 5ft/ sec pace, she would have her to exit at 35sec post shots to arrive and be in place near the stair by 50 sec post shots

5. It is impossible for Oswald to have reached the 4th floor landing in 35 secs, let alone cross 15 more ft landing and also go down approx 1/4th so being completely out of LOS of

6.Oswald at best could reach the 4th floor landing, cross it, and go down part of the 4th to 3rd staircase not earlier than approx 60 secs shots

A. 5 secs to slowly withdraw rifle from
SE window 6th floor TSBD and exit the SN
B.25 sec travel 180ft at double time speed 8ft/ sec ( 3 secs added for acceleration and acceleration to full
Stop.
C.5 sec to wedge rifle into the gap between walls of boxes with only 1”gap
D. 5 sec travel to top step of staircase To begin descent from 6th floor
E. This at 40 sec post shots, earliest probable time to begin a descent down the staircase.
F. Fastest probable descent via 18 step staircase and 15 to 20 ft of landing distance is approx 10 sec/ floor= 60 sec to reach 4th floor, cross landing and begin down staircase to 3rd floor.

Note: above times do NOT include any time for wiping prints off the rifle this a question if such wiping could occur Simultaneously while running with rifle in hand. If that is improbable then about 5-7 more secs must be added.

7. If Mrs Garner waits until 60 secs posts shots before exiting the 4th floor office door, she would have arrived near the staircase at 73 seconds , thus impossible to have heard Adams and Styles voices/heels clacking or whatever it was they made Garner decide she did in fact hear “THEM” on the staircase, The reason being that Adams and Styles are OUT OF THE BUILDING by 65 sec post shots!

If Mrs Garner is still alive ? It would be a slam dunk end to the WC timeline if she should categorically state having heard  Adams and Stylez voices or some specific noise such as double pair of heels clacking.

[Rick Plant]

The hoax is definitely set in the second floor lunchroom.

Explain your reasoning of this being a "hoax". 

[Dan O'meara]

Explain your reasoning of this being a "hoax".

Are you aware that the second floor lunchroom encounter between Oswald, Baker and Truly, as reported by Baker and Truly in their WC testimonies, is thought, by some to be a hoax, it never happened, it was made up?

[Dan O'meara]

Explain your reasoning of this being a "hoax".

As I say Rick, for certain parties it is important that this encounter between Oswald, Baker and Truly in the second floor lunchroom didn't happen. It really spoils their models for what happened that day.
So they propose the whole thing is a hoax and there seems to be plenty of contradictory testimony to support this assertion.
But the "Hoax Theory" is put forward as a reality that explains certain things and, to my mind at least, you don't just get to propose something as a reality then not explain the "mechanics" of this reality.
You don't just conjure up something out of thin air as a reality then not justify the basis of that reality.
So, if the Hoax is real:

Who created it?
What are it's origins?
Who is directing it?
Who is involved?

These are simple, reasonable questions that must be answered by anyone proposing the "2FLRE Hoax Theory" as a reality.
Anyone who looks into this will quickly discover how ridiculous the notion of the Hoax is. As soon as one tries to explain the Hoax as a reality it vanishes leaving the prospect that the encounter did indeed take place.