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Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )  (Read 207835 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1992 on: February 04, 2023, 10:16:22 AM »
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There is no mention of what shirt Oswald wore in any of the interrogation reports.

Agent Bookhout interrogation report:



Inspector Thomas J. Kelley interrogation report:

« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 10:50:44 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1992 on: February 04, 2023, 10:16:22 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1993 on: February 04, 2023, 10:25:24 AM »
Good observation there Mr.Ford. It would explain the shadowing of Lovelady and the bottle anomaly.

And if it can be shown by some geometry that hand raising the bottle is in the same spot as the shadow anomaly that’s would be helpful.

I ask Jerry Organ or Mr.Mytton (or other LNs) for any computer 3d models to see if this lines up correctly , since if an LN admits it works then the newly possible theoretical position of Oswald on the front steps can be established as a reasonable probability.

Don't be so naive, Mr. Mason! The Warren Gullibles, being blinkered fanatics, will never admit to anything that might threaten their fantasy. They are propagandists, not honest brokers

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Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1994 on: February 05, 2023, 11:34:02 PM »
It has long been assumed by researchers on both sides of the debate that the Hughes film shows Mr. Billy Lovelady shielding his eyes from the sun at near-bottom left (=west) of the doorway, just above Mr. Carl Edward Jones---------------



I'm not so sure about that........

On 19 March 1964 Mr. Lovelady tells FBI this---------------------



The day before, Mr. Shelley tells FBI this--------------------



Standing vs. Sitting = Contradiction? Not necessarily!

Each man's statement comes not just with a clear location marker
---------"on the top step to the far right against the wall" vs. "just in front of me"
but with a clear time marker too
---------"At the time the Presidential motorcade passed the Depository building" vs. "At the time... was shot"----------,
such that the following is suggested:

Mr. Lovelady is standing (back in the shadows) in order to catch a glimpse of Pres. Kennedy as the limo passes; Mr. Lovelady sits (back) down after this, and is seated when the first shot rings out; Mr. Lovelady immediately returns to his feet and tries to see what's going on down the street (he is captured in this posture in Altgens)

Neither Mr. Lovelady nor Mr. Shelley puts Mr. Lovelady anywhere near the man in red seen in the Hughes film:



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« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 02:12:48 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1994 on: February 05, 2023, 11:34:02 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1995 on: February 05, 2023, 11:45:37 PM »
The figure whose praying-like hands posture earned the sobriquet 'Prayer Man' (and whom I believe to be Mrs. Pauline Sanders) seems to be visible back in the shadows in the Weaver photograph (taken as JFK is just turning on to Houston St):



Now look how, by the time the limo is turning on to Elm St., a new figure (man in red) has appeared on the scene, and is now standing just behind Mr. Carl Edward Jones + in front of 'Prayer Man':



Is this man in red Mr. Oswald, who has left it until the very last minute to come out (holding his Coke) through the glass door and watch the P. Parade?



Everyone's eyes are fixed on the approaching limo, and so Mr. Oswald's arrival goes unnoticed..........

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« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 02:14:04 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1996 on: February 08, 2023, 06:39:43 AM »
Yes, There appears to be  too many Billy Loveladys in multiple places.

At this point in time of the Hughes film , would not  Lovelady have likely finished his coke since he had gotten it earlier than 12:15.

Oswald on the other hand having just bought a coke after he  went up to 2nd floor lunchroom about 12:27 (from Domino where he had observed Norman and Jarman returning) , would still probably have a partly filled bottle at time of12:29:30.

So if some computer imaging program can determine that reddish shirt man raising hand up and down has bottle in the hand, and that the shirt cannot very probably be Loveladys shirt because the square grid pattern is too small to match, then it is high probable to be Oswald with partly open reddish brown shirt.

And can there be any match of the white T-shirt as being more similar to Oswald’s looser  T-shirt than Loveladys tighter neck T- shirt ( as per man on 6th floor resembling Lovelady with long sleeve white shirt presumably Lovelady having shed his flannel shirt?

Note: Would not Oswald have had to pass by in front of PM to get to the west side part of front steps?

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1996 on: February 08, 2023, 06:39:43 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1997 on: February 08, 2023, 12:04:52 PM »
Note: Would not Oswald have had to pass by in front of PM to get to the west side part of front steps?

Yes, but if Mr. Oswald left it until the very last minute to pop outside, then PM would, like everyone else, have been focused on the approaching motorcade. And would have seen (if noticing him at all) the back of his head.

You're at a big soccer match. A penalty is about to be taken. All eyes, yours included, are fixed on the penalty area. Someone sits down in a seat in front of you, but the tiered seating means they don't hamper your view. Do you even notice their arrival, still less take mental note of their identity?

I believe PM is Mrs. Pauline Sanders. Mr. Oswald meant nothing to her



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Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1998 on: February 08, 2023, 10:57:52 PM »
Going on the idea then, that the magnitude of the event is enough to almost render Oswald as an invisible man, then it’s not so implausible that he went back into TSBD almost immediately following Baker/ Truly.

It’s possible the passenger elevator still had power and was  on the ground floor level when Oswald entered the front lobby about 15 secs behind Truly and Baker.

Then as Truly and Baker were occupied opening the countertop of the front desk area , Oswald entered the front passenger elevator unnoticed and about 7 secs later, Oswald was on the 2nd floor , exiting the elevator and starting down the outer hallway that leads to the 2nd floor lunchroom.

The timing works out remarkably well that at about 80 secs post shots , Oswald would be opening the vestibule door and crossing thru the small vestibule area to open the lunchroom door about 83 -85 sec.

This is when Baker arrives to the 2nd floor landing  via rear staircase following Truly, and sees the light flicker from door opening , looks over to the vestibule area and sees Oswald walking “away” thru the 2x2 window.

Oswald was going up to the lunchroom and or thru the lunchroom to retrieve his jacket that he had placed in a location he felt was more secure than Domino room or the front lobby storage room.

Probably the reason being that the items Oswald had such as his boarding room keys, his bracelet, ring, and even his wallet , he put in his jacket so as not to loose such items accidentally while he was working going up and down floors and taking books from boxes to be wrapped on the ground floor.

This scenario timing allows after The encounter w/Baker, that Oswald has retrieved his jacket by 1min 50 sec post shots and thus he had time to return to the front lobby and meet  the reporter Pierce Alman   about  2 min 10 secs post shots.

Then Oswald exited TSBD via front entrance door by 2 min 20 secs and crossed Elm st. approx by 2 min 35 secs.

Oswald was then spotted by Buell W . Frazier in this vicinity of the Elm /Houston st. Intersection, just before Frazier re entered TSBD preceding  DPD officer Barnett locking the doors approx 3 min post shots.

Note 1: this scenario is about the  only way to plausibility explain Oswald having had a 2nd floor lunchroom lunchroom encounter with Baker at 90 sec post shots, given the Hosty note placing Oswald outside of TSBD at  time of shots fired.

Note2: It may be a plausible alibi for Oswald that demonstrates he was on the ground floor level  at the time of shooting , and given the P.Parade statement recorded by Hosty note, it works  with Oswald at the new proposed location on front steps where reddish shirt man is raising his hand up and  down.

Note 3: Reddish shirt man raising hand up to mouth level and then down again so quickly suggests the act of drinking from a bottle more than it does  the act of shading eyes.

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1998 on: February 08, 2023, 10:57:52 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1999 on: February 09, 2023, 06:15:33 AM »
Note 1: this scenario is about the  only way to plausibility explain Oswald having had a 2nd floor lunchroom lunchroom encounter with Baker at 90 sec post shots, given the Hosty note placing Oswald outside of TSBD at  time of shots fired.

Mr Mason, I would argue that this is the reason the second floor lunchroom was used as the fictional location for a fictional encounter: it allows for two very different scenarios
----------------LHO has just come from sixth floor
----------------LHO has just come from front entrance
It also splits the difference between two completely different sightings that have already been reported
----------------'worker' caught walking away from the rear stairway several floors up (Baker affidavit)
----------------LHO spotted in a small storage room on first floor shortly after the shooting (Mr. Ochus Campbell)

The 'investigating' authorities knew that Mr. Oswald was out front for the P. Parade. The risk that proof of this could at any time seep out into the public domain (through e.g. a civilian who had a camera in Dealey Plaza going straight to an honest journalist with photographic/film evidence clearly establishing Mr. Oswald's alibi) restrained them from going all in on Mr. Oswald as sixth-floor shooter.

The interrogation reports for the first interrogation tell the story.

Here's what Agent Hosty writes in his draft report:



A perfectly clear sequence of events:
1. Pre-motorcade purchase of Coke in second floor lunchroom
2. Down to first floor to eat
3. Then outside to watch P. Parade

No mention of lunchroom cop encounter.

But look how this sequence of events is written up in the joint Hosty-Bookhout interrogation report for that same interrogation session:



Key elements found in the Hosty draft report are included, but the timing and sequence of events has been rendered ambiguous. This version allows the reader to suppose the following sequence of events:

1. Eats lunch on first floor (and is there when Pres. Kennedy passed the building)
2. Up to second floor lunchroom for Coke (just after the shooting)

By rewording Mr. Oswald's claim to have gone outside onto the front steps for the P. Parade into a much vaguer claim to have been "on the first floor" when Pres. Kennedy passed, the report's authors have avoided telling an outright lie, but have also avoided telling the plain truth. Why don't they want to tell an outright lie? Because they know just how precarious the case against Mr. Oswald is, and need to cover themselves for the eventuality that he is exonerated at some point in the future.

And no mention yet of any cop encounter in the second-floor lunchroom.

Which brings us to the masterpiece that is the solo Bookhout interrogation report, which covers that selfsame first interrogation session:



Mr. Oswald is now dead, and the distortion of his claims in that first interrogation session can be perfected. The new starting point of Mr. Oswald's story is "the time of the search" of the building by police (i.e. post-assassination). This yields the following 'confirmation' from the suspect himself of the lunchroom encounter fiction:

1. Post-assassination purchase of Coke in second floor lunchroom
2. Cop comes in etc
3. Down to first floor to eat lunch (as though nothing has happened!)
4. Then (finally!) goes outside

So------------------Mr. Oswald tells one straightforward (and true) story, and this is then written up in three dramatically different ways.

If this really is Mr. Oswald sipping from his Coke bottle----------------

---------------then everything the 'investigating' authorities do can be explained as putting together a case for him as a the SN shooter that can, should clear evidence of his alibi come to public light, be walked back. It would, for instance, have been easy for Captain Fritz et al to just claim (after Mr. Oswald's death) that he finally broke under interrogation on Sunday morning and confessed to the shooting. But that would have given a massive hostage to fortune........................

If Mr. Oswald went BACK up to the second-floor lunchroom, after the shooting, to retrieve his jacket (why wouldn't he have brought it down with him to the domino room in the first place?), then one presumes he would have told this fact in interrogation. Yet we get not a word about such anywhere in any of the reports. instead we get the blatant evolution in the interrogation reports from purchase of Coke in lunchroom pre-motorcade to purchase of Coke in lunchroom post-motorcade. Mr. Oswald didn't change his story in that first interrogation: he had his story changed by those in charge of curating his words for the official record.

There WAS no post-assassination visit to the second-floor lunchroom, and no cop encounter there, and that is the point.

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