JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories

[Michael T. Griffith]

Tests by the Haags showed 6.5mm FMJs fired into asphalt almost instantly disintegrated into minute parts, which seems to put the "ricochet" theory to rest.

LOL! Well, that clinches it then!

One, the Haags are quacks when it comes to the JFK case. Q. U. A. C. K. S.  I’m guessing you haven’t read any of the critiques of their junk science?

Two, the ammo that hit Kennedy in the head behaved like frangible ammo, not FMJ ammo. A frangible bullet striking the curb could have sent fragments streaking at high speeds in several directions.

Three, I am still waiting for you to provide a shred of evidence that says an FMJ bullet striking a skull at a downward angle would somehow deposit two mid-section fragments 1 cm below the entry point. None of the bullets in the WC’s tests did that. None of the bullets in the Failure Analysis tests did that. And no one has yet been able to find a single documented case where an FMJ bullet behaved in this manner.

JFK doesn't react to being shot until Z226. He may have been shot a few frames before (while out of view) but didn't voluntary react until Z226.

Eee-gads! What about all of JFK’s obvious, visible reactions that begin nearly 30 frames earlier, reactions that even the HSCA acknowledged?

* The HSCA photographic evidence panel (PEP) said Kennedy was hit between Z188 and Z190. The panel noted that a fraction of a second later, at around Z200, Kennedy's movements suddenly freeze and his right hand abruptly stops in the middle of a waving motion. The PEP also noted that JFK's head rapidly moves from the right toward Jackie.
* By Z202-204, Jackie has made a sudden sharp turn to the right, toward her husband. When she reemerges into view at Z223, she is looking intently at her husband (obviously her attention was drawn to him because the reaction that he had begun at around Z200 had become more noticeable while the car was behind the freeway sign).
* At Z207, Howard Brennan suddenly looks to his right.
* At the direction of the Secret Service, Special Agent John Howlett analyzed films of the shooting (mainly the Zapruder film) with the aid of a surveyor a few days after the assassination. He concluded that Kennedy was first hit at around Z199.
* At around Z200, JFK's hand not only stops suddenly in the middle of a wave, but it also drops to the chin or throat level in a fraction of a second and stays at that level until he disappears behind the freeway sign at Z207.
* William Hartmann, a member of the Committee's photographic evidence panel, reported that the panel found that Willis slide 5 indicated a shot was fired at or shortly before Z190. Willis said he snapped the photo in a startle reaction to the sound of a shot. He took Slide 5 at Z202. "So," notes Hartmann, "that is very nice, consistent evidence that something happened, say, at 190 or shortly before 190." (2 HSCA 15)
* Kennedy's cheek are seen to puff at Z188.

Does your copy of the Zapruder film just not show all of these reactions? Or do you claim that you cannot see them?

Modified from HSCA drawing

Is this supposed to be your answer to the EOP-entry-site trajectory problem? Did you notice that this diagram is based on the cowlick entry site? Did you miss that?

For starters, you might want to begin your long-overdue homework by reading Howard Donahue’s demolition of Canning’s head-shot trajectory analysis (Mortal Error, pp. 243-246). Donahue (through his writer Bonar Menninger) pointed out that Canning made several fundamental errors in his analysis.

By the way, after Canning finished his work with the HSCA, he wrote the committee's chief counsel, Robert Blakey, a letter in which he said that he was surprised that this study of the photographic evidence revealed "major discrepancies" in the Warren Commission's findings:

When I was asked to participate in analysis of the physical evidence regarding the assassination of John Kennedy, I welcomed the opportunity to help set the record straight. I did not anticipate that study of the photographic record of itself would reveal major discrepancies in the Warren Commission findings. Such has turned out to be the case. (Letter from Thomas Canning to Robert Blakey, 1/5/1978, https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/canning-s-letter-to-blakey)

[Joe Elliott]

LOL! Well, that clinches it then!

One, the Haags are quacks when it comes to the JFK case. Q. U. A. C. K. S.  I’m guessing you haven’t read any of the critiques of their junk science?

The Haags are quacks? You mean the writers who criticize their works are quacks. If the Haags are ‘quacks’, why do judges allow them to testify in murder trails as expert ballistic experts? How many of these ‘critics’ have been allowed to give testimony as experts on ballistics in a court of law?

I challenge you to name them.

And no, a medical doctor, giving testimony as a medical expert, does not count as a ballistic expert giving testimony as a ballistic expert.

Two, the ammo that hit Kennedy in the head behaved like frangible ammo, not FMJ ammo. A frangible bullet striking the curb could have sent fragments streaking at high speeds in several directions.

False. WCC/MC will fragment when striking bone at velocities of around 1900 feet per second. They won’t fragment or deform at speeds below 1400 feet per second, even upon striking bone. But they will at the velocity they struck the skull of the President.

Three, I am still waiting for you to provide a shred of evidence that says an FMJ bullet striking a skull at a downward angle would somehow deposit two mid-section fragments 1 cm below the entry point. None of the bullets in the WC’s tests did that. None of the bullets in the Failure Analysis tests did that. And no one has yet been able to find a single documented case where an FMJ bullet behaved in this manner. [/size]

Were any of these experiments conducted with living heads? Couldn’t blood flow move fragments within a head? I am no ballistic expert, but I remember Larry Sturdivan mentioning something along this line in his book “The JFK Myths”.

And would blood flow be even necessary? With the bullet travelling downward, I don’t see how it is that surprising if any fragments ended up 1 cm below the entry point. Surely the bullet, or it’s fragments would likely be passing through that area.

[Michael Carney]

All this back and forth crap is getting old. Check out this website where cops talk about .223 headshots.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5445-223-in-the-head

Basically it says that the .223 enters the head and rarely exits. Typically enters the head and travels a couple inches and explodes. Just like what happened to JFK, traveled a couple of inches and exploded.

[Michael Carney]

First doctor to work on JFK, the importance of this short video is the location of the head wound

[Michael T. Griffith]

All this back and forth crap is getting old. Check out this website where cops talk about .223 headshots.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5445-223-in-the-head

Basically it says that the .223 enters the head and rarely exits. Typically enters the head and travels a couple inches and explodes. Just like what happened to JFK, traveled a couple of inches and exploded.

You have made a very good case that the head-shot bullet behaved like a frangible bullet and not anything like an FMJ bullet. Many forensic and ballistics experts have noted this fact, as I document in "Forensic Science and President Kennedy's Head Wound."

But, I can tell you that the likes of Organ and Elliott will never, ever, ever admit this fact, no matter how much evidence you show them and no matter how strained and silly their counter-arguments are exposed as being.

An interesting side note is that we now know that during the autopsy, the autopsy doctors briefly discussed the fact that the bullet that struck the head did not behave like an FMJ bullet. This observation probably came from Finck, who had considerable experience with gunshot wounds.

And, you probably know from reading Mortal Error that Dr. Russell Fisher of the Clark Panel told Howard Donahue that the Clark Panel members believed that the back-of-head fragment was a ricochet fragment. I spoke and corresponded with Donahue a couple of times a few years after his book came out, and I could tell right away that he would never lie about something like this. Everyone who knew Donahue could discern that he was a down-to-earth, straight-shooter type of person.

[Jerry Organ]

You have made a very good case that the head-shot bullet behaved like a frangible bullet and not anything like an FMJ bullet. Many forensic and ballistics experts have noted this fact, as I document in "Forensic Science and President Kennedy's Head Wound."

But, I can tell you that the likes of Organ and Elliott will never, ever, ever admit this fact, no matter how much evidence you show them and no matter how strained and silly their counter-arguments are exposed as being.

An interesting side note is that we now know that during the autopsy, the autopsy doctors briefly discussed the fact that the bullet that struck the head did not behave like an FMJ bullet. This observation probably came from Finck, who had considerable experience with gunshot wounds.

And, you probably know from reading Mortal Error that Dr. Russell Fisher of the Clark Panel told Howard Donahue that the Clark Panel members believed that the back-of-head fragment was a ricochet fragment. I spoke and corresponded with Donahue a couple of times a few years after his book came out, and I could tell right away that he would never lie about something like this. Everyone who knew Donahue could discern that he was a down-to-earth, straight-shooter type of person.

You mean where Dr. Fisher told Donahue the skull entry wound was 6.5 millimeters and that it was in the so-called "cowlick" area?

[Joe Elliott]

You have made a very good case that the head-shot bullet behaved like a frangible bullet and not anything like an FMJ bullet. Many forensic and ballistics experts have noted this fact, as I document in "Forensic Science and President Kennedy's Head Wound."

An interesting side note is that we now know that during the autopsy, the autopsy doctors briefly discussed the fact that the bullet that struck the head did not behave like an FMJ bullet. This observation probably came from Finck, who had considerable experience with gunshot wounds.

WCC/MC FMJ bullets, upon striking bone at near 1900 feet per second, will fragment.

In a sense, FMJ bullets, which strike bone at high speed, will act like non FMJ bullets, which strike soft tissue at high speed. Both will fragment. So, yes, a FMJ can act like a non FMJ bullet, when a FMJ strikes bone at high speed.

Question:

Where is the ballistic expert who says different? And who cites his experiments that show that a WCC/MC bullet, striking bone, like a skull, at high speed, will not fragment?

But, I can tell you that the likes of Organ and Elliott will never, ever, ever admit this fact, no matter how much evidence you show them and no matter how strained and silly their counter-arguments are exposed as being.

Speaking for myself, no I will never admit this “fact” until you provide quality evidence from a true qualified ballistic expert.

[Michael Carney]

Joe

"Question:

Where is the ballistic expert who says different? And who cites his experiments that show that a WCC/MC bullet, striking bone, like a skull, at high speed, will not fragment?"

Read Griffith’s article, it’s full of experts claiming that a FMJ bullet is not likely to fragment and certainly not fragment like the fragments found in JFK’s head.