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Author Topic: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories  (Read 27878 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2020, 11:36:54 PM »
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People see the “reactions” that they expect to see when interpreting the Z film. If you think both men were hit by one bullet, then you’ll see a simultaneous reaction. If you think they were hit by separate bullets then you’ll see separate reactions.

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2020, 11:36:54 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #113 on: July 13, 2020, 02:12:18 AM »

As an aside, I would urge caution in putting the bullet impact too late. A strike at z224, or even z223, opens the door up to CTers to go to their standard claim “The reactions are too fast to be humanly possible”. Popular for both the z222 and the z312 bullet strike. They would make the same claim about a third strike on the President or the Governor if we LNers believed there was a third strike. Frame 222 is the best estimate. I’m not placing it earlier than it should be, except a CTer might point out that z222 is 110 milliseconds before z224, not 100. Even so, Frame 222 is the best estimate we have, subject to future testing of the nature Dr. Lattimer carried out.

Hi Joe,

The way I'see it at the moment is that the argument for an impact earlier than z224 is the preceding frame in which Connally is sat looking completely untroubled.



The Croft photo can be fairly accurately synchronised with z160, give or take a few frames. In it we see Connally looking towards his wife, Nellie. If we roll the Zfilm forward from this point and focus on Connally we can just about make out him looking towards his left then turning his head to the right. He stays in this position as he passes behind the Stemmons sign. As he emerges from behind the sign the first good look at him is z223 in which he looks totally calm and composed and his jacket hasn't started to bulge. It seems clear to me he has not been shot. In z224 we see the right-hand side of his jacket beginning to bulge, this is the shot which passed through both men. z225 the beginning of JFK's 'hand snap' reflex, z226 both men begin to react to being shot.
Because I'm so green here I'm not sure what a CTer or a LNer is or what they think, I can only make my judgement off what I'm actually seeing and will only listen to arguments that I find compelling (the Larsen/Graves identification of Gloria Calvery being a good example).



Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #114 on: July 13, 2020, 02:44:01 AM »
Hi Joe,

The way I'see it at the moment is that the argument for an impact earlier than z224 is the preceding frame in which Connally is sat looking completely untroubled.



The Croft photo can be fairly accurately synchronised with z160, give or take a few frames. In it we see Connally looking towards his wife, Nellie. If we roll the Zfilm forward from this point and focus on Connally we can just about make out him looking towards his left then turning his head to the right. He stays in this position as he passes behind the Stemmons sign. As he emerges from behind the sign the first good look at him is z223 in which he looks totally calm and composed and his jacket hasn't started to bulge. It seems clear to me he has not been shot. In z224 we see the right-hand side of his jacket beginning to bulge, this is the shot which passed through both men. z225 the beginning of JFK's 'hand snap' reflex, z226 both men begin to react to being shot.
Because I'm so green here I'm not sure what a CTer or a LNer is or what they think, I can only make my judgement off what I'm actually seeing and will only listen to arguments that I find compelling (the Larsen/Graves identification of Gloria Calvery being a good example).

A CTer is an OAKisser
An LNer is an OAKicker

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #114 on: July 13, 2020, 02:44:01 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #115 on: July 13, 2020, 02:55:53 AM »
A CTer is an OAKisser
An LNer is an OAKicker

Thanks Bill that's really cleared things up  ???

Oswald Ass Kisser
Oswald Ass Kicker
Conspiracy Theorist(er)
LNer ??

Actually that doesn't make sense to me. Isn't a CTer a OAKicker?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 02:58:55 AM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #116 on: July 13, 2020, 03:03:29 AM »
People see the “reactions” that they expect to see when interpreting the Z film. If you think both men were hit by one bullet, then you’ll see a simultaneous reaction. If you think they were hit by separate bullets then you’ll see separate reactions.

Iacoletti,

One particular member of this forum can only see blobs, especially if he thinks it might somehow incriminate Oswald.

--  MWT  ;)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 03:04:25 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #116 on: July 13, 2020, 03:03:29 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #117 on: July 13, 2020, 03:05:12 AM »

The way I'see it at the moment is that the argument for an impact earlier than z224 is the preceding frame in which Connally is sat looking completely untroubled.

The Croft photo can be fairly accurately synchronised with z160, give or take a few frames. In it we see Connally looking towards his wife, Nellie. If we roll the Zfilm forward from this point and focus on Connally we can just about make out him looking towards his left then turning his head to the right. He stays in this position as he passes behind the Stemmons sign. As he emerges from behind the sign the first good look at him is z223 in which he looks totally calm and composed and his jacket hasn't started to bulge. It seems clear to me he has not been shot. In z224 we see the right-hand side of his jacket beginning to bulge, this is the shot which passed through both men. z225 the beginning of JFK's 'hand snap' reflex, z226 both men begin to react to being shot.


An impact at z222 should not cause Connally to show pain in his face by z223. That would be too fast a reaction. So, his face showing no pain at z223 is no reason to reject an impact at z222.

Reaction times are hard to estimate. You can’t just shoot someone to find out. People can claim the reaction should start in 100 milliseconds or 150 milliseconds or 200 milliseconds. There is never going to be a way to test these claims.

How long it takes a coat to move is something that can be tested, as many times as one likes. This is clearly the rational method to estimate when the bullet impact took place. And these tests have been done and show the coat moves 100 milliseconds after the bullet passes through it. I’m not going to overrule these real-world tests just because someone claims, with no real-world supporting evidence, that the face would register pain in 55 milliseconds.

Question:

Should our estimates on when the bullet impact took place be based on reactions we cannot test or on reactions we can test?


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #118 on: July 13, 2020, 05:23:11 AM »
Thanks Bill that's really cleared things up  ???

Oswald Ass Kisser
Oswald Ass Kicker
Conspiracy Theorist(er)
LNer ??

Actually that doesn't make sense to me. Isn't a CTer a OAKicker?

ass arse

LN = Lone nutter = Oswald did it alone
CT = Conspiracy Theorists = AnyBodyButOswald = A gazillion conspiracy theories
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 05:30:36 AM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #118 on: July 13, 2020, 05:23:11 AM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #119 on: July 13, 2020, 05:45:12 AM »
and will only listen to arguments that I find compelling

 :D