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Author Topic: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.  (Read 21096 times)

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2018, 07:22:56 AM »
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In the Zfilm, JFK reacts just as he emerges from behind the sign. Given that it would likely take a split second* to react to the pain, it seems to me the bullet struck before he emerges from behind the sign. His hands are just starting to rise as he appears, indicating that the missile has traversed the neck before his hands rise to neck level.


* Every time I stub my toe while barefooted, It takes a two-count for the pain to be felt.
Oh, sorry. I thought you wanted to use a science approach.

I can't tell when JFK started to react because I can't see that he is not already reacting before he emerges from behind the sign. I would need evidence that he is not already reacting. But the zfilm shows significant change in both hand positions betwen z200 and z222. There are many witnesses who observed that JFK changed his hand positions in response to the first shot. And there is quite a bit of evidence that the first shot was after z186.

I would also need evidence to show that JFK's dramatic reaction seen from z226 and following wa necessarily the immediate initial reaction. It could be a gagging reaction due the difficulty in breathing resulting from the damage to his airway. We do know that humans normally take about 12 to 20 breaths per minute so a gagging reaction could start a couple of seconds after sustaining the injury.

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2018, 07:22:56 AM »

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2018, 01:56:09 PM »
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 Thumb1:

Thanks for reinforcing the back shot as Kennedy emerges from behind the Stemmons Freeway sign!



JohnM

  Thumb1:

 

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2018, 02:02:32 PM »
If everyone could just look CLOSELY at where President Kennedy's hands go to...

 The hands are never at "neck level", they never go near the throat, and he never "clutched his throat".  Sadly, this entire idea seems to stem from no one having made blow ups of the Z frames for a cursory examination of the film to examine exactly what happened, before 1966 when John Connally examined blown up frames trying to determine when he was shot.  Life Magazine is responsible for claiming that the President "clutched his throat" in its October 1964 edition, in one of the captions for the Zapruder frames they published in that issue.

 The right hand is the first to go into position in a cupped fashion, over the mouth.  The left hand comes up, every finger except for the index finger are curled. The index finger is slightly curled but in a near straight position as the hand forms into a semi-fist and comes up against the bottom the right hand.  It looks like he could very well be dry heaving after the bullet that ripped through his back exited the throat.   As he starts to turn his head to his left, his right hand--now in a semi-cupped position-is now at cheek level as his head turns and the hand remains in the upward position.  He doesn't start to bring the left hand/arm down until after Mrs. Kennedy grasps his left arm and pulls him slightly downward and toward her.  His right hand then moves from cheek level down to chest level where it remains until the fatal shot is fired. 

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2018, 02:02:32 PM »

Online Royell Storing

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2018, 03:45:19 PM »
       "...ripped THROUGH his back......". This statement is Incorrect. Humes probed JFK's BACK Wound and the depth of said wound ended at the first knuckle on his finger. The location of the BACK Wound is corroborated by: (1) The JFK Autopsy Face Sheet, (2) JFK Autopsy Photo, (3) JFK Dress Shirt, & (4) JFK Suit Coat. The JFK BACK Wound had absolutely Nothing to do with the Neck Wound or the movement of his hands during the assassination. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 03:46:51 PM by Royell Storing »

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2018, 04:09:39 PM »
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       "...ripped THROUGH his back......". This statement is Incorrect. Humes probed JFK's BACK Wound and the depth of said wound ended at the first knuckle on his finger. The location of the BACK Wound is corroborated by: (1) The JFK Autopsy Face Sheet, (2) JFK Autopsy Photo, (3) JFK Dress Shirt, & (4) JFK Suit Coat. The JFK BACK Wound had absolutely Nothing to do with the Neck Wound or the movement of his hands during the assassination.

  Since that is what you believe, Storing, go for it.   I will use common sense and accept the fact that bullet that entered the back exited the throat,  based on the evidence.   You go ahead and continue to live in denial, and base your case on flimsy, conspiracy tripe.  You haven't read everything on the back wound, or you would know why the wound only went as far as the first knuckle, so I take your reasoning with the usual grain of salt.  Oh, and yes, the movement of his arms and hands DID have everything to do with the back wound.

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2018, 04:09:39 PM »

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2018, 01:04:16 AM »
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If everyone could just look CLOSELY at where President Kennedy's hands go to...

 The hands are never at "neck level", they never go near the throat, and he never "clutched his throat".  Sadly, this entire idea seems to stem from no one having made blow ups of the Z frames for a cursory examination of the film to examine exactly what happened, before 1966 when John Connally examined blown up frames trying to determine when he was shot.  Life Magazine is responsible for claiming that the President "clutched his throat" in its October 1964 edition, in one of the captions for the Zapruder frames they published in that issue.

 The right hand is the first to go into position in a cupped fashion, over the mouth.  The left hand comes up, every finger except for the index finger are curled. The index finger is slightly curled but in a near straight position as the hand forms into a semi-fist and comes up against the bottom the right hand.  It looks like he could very well be dry heaving after the bullet that ripped through his back exited the throat.   As he starts to turn his head to his left, his right hand--now in a semi-cupped position-is now at cheek level as his head turns and the hand remains in the upward position.  He doesn't start to bring the left hand/arm down until after Mrs. Kennedy grasps his left arm and pulls him slightly downward and toward her.  His right hand then moves from cheek level down to chest level where it remains until the fatal shot is fired.
I don't think it matters precisely where he put his hands. What matters is why his hands moved from the position they are seen in z193 to the position they are in at z223 and why his facial expression seen when he appears from behind the Stemmons sign is so different from that in z193. Many witnesses said his facial expression changed like that and his hand positions changed like that in respon4se to the first shot.

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2018, 03:08:30 PM »
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I don't think it matters precisely where he put his hands. What matters is why his hands moved from the position they are seen in z193 to the position they are in at z223 and why his facial expression seen when he appears from behind the Stemmons sign is so different from that in z193. Many witnesses said his facial expression changed like that and his hand positions changed like that in respon4se to the first shot.


Well, maybe it doesn't make any difference to you, but to me, it does.  If people are going to point things out in the Zapruder film--or any of the photographic evidence--they need to interpret it  it correctly.  People are constantly using the position of his hands as they "see" them as an excuse to say that a bullet entered the throat from the front as their "proof", when his hands don't go anywhere near his throat.

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2018, 03:08:30 PM »

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2018, 07:30:03 PM »
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Well, maybe it doesn't make any difference to you, but to me, it does.  If people are going to point things out in the Zapruder film--or any of the photographic evidence--they need to interpret it  it correctly.  People are constantly using the position of his hands as they "see" them as an excuse to say that a bullet entered the throat from the front as their "proof", when his hands don't go anywhere near his throat.
Ok. That's a fair point. The hands are not an indication of the precise location of this throat wound. In any event, the hands do not tell us whether the bullet entered from the front or the back. The autopsy tells us that it entered from the back.

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2018, 07:30:03 PM »

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2018, 01:47:39 AM »
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Ok. That's a fair point. The hands are not an indication of the precise location of this throat wound. In any event, the hands do not tell us whether the bullet entered from the front or the back. The autopsy tells us that it entered from the back.

Absolutely agreed.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2018, 06:00:38 PM »
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Ok. That's a fair point. The hands are not an indication of the precise location of this throat wound. In any event, the hands do not tell us whether the bullet entered from the front or the back. The autopsy tells us that it entered from the back.

The autopsy doesn't tell us anything of the kind about the throat wound.

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Re: A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2018, 06:00:38 PM »

 

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