If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?

[Martin Weidmann]

Who was the woman that Lovelady saw when he came through the first floor?

Who knows? But he said he wasn't sure it was Vickie.

The strangest thing about that is that he wasn't even asked about Adams. He was only asked who he saw in the first floor

Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.
Mr. BALL - Who is Vickie?
Mr. LOVELADY - The girl that works for Scott, Foresman.
Mr. BALL - What is her full name?
Mr. LOVELADY - I wouldn't know.
Mr. BALL - Vickie Adams?
Mr. LOVELADY - I believe so.
Mr. BALL - Would you say it was Vickie you saw?
Mr. LOVELADY - I couldn't swear.

Seems a strange way to answer a question....

But anyway, as Shelley and Lovelady did not return to the 1st floor of the TSBD until 12.35 it could have been any woman Lovelady saw, but not Vickie Adams, because she wasn't there. She was still outside the main entrance and after entering the building, at or shortly after 12.36, she never went back to the first floor.

Miss ADAMS - There was an officer on the stairs itself, and he was prohibiting people from entering the building, that is correct. But I told him I worked there.
Mr. BELIN - Did he let you come back in?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do ?
Miss ADAMS - Following that, I pushed the button for the passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor.
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Mr. BELIN - Do those stairs go above floor 2?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir; they didn't.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got to the second floor?
Miss ADAMS - I went into the Texas School Book Depository office and just listened for a few minutes to the people that were congregating there, and decided there wasn't anything interesting going on, and went out and walked around the hall to the freight elevator meaning the one on the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN - Would it have been the west or the east? The one nearest the stairs or the other one?
Miss ADAMS - Yes; the one nearest the stairs.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went into the elevator which was stopped on the second floor, with two men who were dressed in suit and hats, and I assumed they were plainclothesmen.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then?
Miss ADAMS - I tried to get the elevator to go to the fourth floor, but it wasn't operating, so the gentlemen lifted the elevator gate and we went out and ran up the stairs to the fourth floor.

[Tim Nickerson]

But what if the particulars she provided during her testimony simply do not match with the known facts? Please remember that her testimony was some 5 + months after the events.

The combined testimony shows that the only possible location where Adams could have crossed paths with Shelley and Lovelady is in or near the parking lot at the west side of the TSBD anywhere between 12.33 and 12.35.

If you feel it's not plausible, there surely must be some other scenario that is more plausible to you, right? I'd would appreciate it if you try to fit that scenario, whatever it is, into the known time line, if you can.

Her Testimony wasn't quite four months after the event. But even four months is a long time when it comes to recalling minor deatils that you would have never thought to commit to memory at the time. Adams recalled the position on the first floor where she encountered Lovelady and Shelley. She marked on a floor plan about where it was. What are we to make of that?

[Tim Nickerson]

In the book Ernest talks to Sandra Styles (married name Butler)

"A few people were milling around on the first floor," she explained. "One was a black man." That was apparently the same man Ms. Adams had mentioned. I casually asked her if William Shelley or Billy Lovelady were there.
"No," she said, emphasizing she would have recognized them since she knew both men well.

"The Girl On The Stairs" pg353

As for Billy Lovelady's WC testimony about Vicki Adams. as I say, it's a joke. Completely unprompted and totally out of context he blurts out her name:

Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.

Read the full testimony. Nobody had mentioned anything about Vicki Adams up to that point, it was the unprovoked answer of a badly coached witness. He even goes on to say Shelley was talking with her, something Shelley had already denied.
It's okay if you don't want to accept the timeline Martin's putting forward. It's not mandatory. But at least it's reasonable.

Sandra Styles Butler told Sean Murphy that she may have seen them but she just couldn't recall doing so. I've read Adams' testimony scores of times.

[Martin Weidmann]

Her Testimony wasn't quite four months after the event. But even four months is a long time when it comes to recalling minor deatils that you would have never thought to commit to memory at the time. Adams recalled the position on the first floor where she encountered Lovelady and Shelley. She marked on a floor plan about where it was. What are we to make of that?

What are we to make of that?

As the combined testimony of Adams, Shelley and Lovelady make it impossible for that encounter to have happened, one has to consider the possibility that she remembered incorrectly.

It's the only element that simply doesn't fit in an otherwise pretty solid time line. And not only that, it couldn't possibly fit which ever way to look at it.

As Adams and Styles were coming of the stairs, regardless if that was at 12.31 or 12.34, Shelley and Lovelady where outside the building from the moment the shots were fired until 12.35, one minute before the place was sealed off.

If the encounter had taken place just after 12.35, Adams and Styles wouldn't have been allowed out of the building by police at the back of the TSBD, but more importantly, by the time Shelley and Lovelady did enter the 1st floor, at 12.35, Styles and Adams were at the main entrance of the building.

In my view there are three options;

1. The encounter never happened and Adams remembered something that never took place.
2. The girls crossed paths with Shelley and Lovelady at the parking lot and Adams only parcially remembered
3. The testimony of Adams was tampered with.

If there is a fourth option, please let me know, because I can't think of it....

[Martin Weidmann]

Sandra Styles Butler told Sean Murphy that she may have seen them but she just couldn't recall doing so. I've read Adams' testimony scores of times.

Sandra Styles seems to have flip flopped several times. She told Murphy that they didn't leave the 4th floor straight away, but she told the FBI in 1964 that they left after the last shot.

Sandra Styles is not going to resolve this matter one way or another.

[Tim Nickerson]

What are we to make of that?

As the combined testimony of Adams, Shelley and Lovelady make it impossible for that encounter to have happened, one has to consider the possibility that she remembered incorrectly.

It's the only element that simply doesn't fit in an otherwise pretty solid time line. And not only that, it couldn't possibly fit which ever way to look at it.

As Adams and Styles were coming of the stairs, regardless if that was at 12.31 or 12.34, Shelley and Lovelady where outside the building from the moment the shots were fired until 12.35, one minute before the place was sealed off.

If the encounter had taken place just after 12.35, Adams and Styles wouldn't have been allowed out of the building by police at the back of the TSBD, but more importantly, by the time Shelley and Lovelady did enter the 1st floor, at 12.35, Styles and Adams were at the main entrance of the building.

In my view there are three options;

1. The encounter never happened and Adams remembered something that never took place.
2. The girls crossed paths with Shelley and Lovelady at the parking lot and Adams only parcially remembered
3. The testimony of Adams was tampered with.

If there is a fourth option, please let me know, because I can't think of it....

I rule out option 3 altogether. The fourth option would be that Adams descended later than she recalled.

[Dan O'meara]

I rule out option 3 altogether. The fourth option would be that Adams descended later than she recalled.

  or she deliberately lied about it because she knew what chaos it would cause in the future.

[Martin Weidmann]

I rule out option 3 altogether. The fourth option would be that Adams descended later than she recalled.

No surprise there, as far as option 3 is concerned. It is, however, still a viable option to be considered if no other plausible explanation is found.

The fourth option is no option at all, as it can be ruled out completely based on the known information.

The building was sealed of by 12.37, so if Adams and Styles came down the stairs after that time, they wouldn't have been able to leave the building

We know from her testimony that Adams was at the front entrance at 12.36, where she heard a radio call and then entered the building. She took the stairs to the 2nd floor, walked through the office space to the freight elevators in the back of the building and saw two men whom she believed were police men or secret agents. She then took the stairs up to the 4th floor. This means that by 12.36 there were already law enforcement people in the building. Had Styles and Adams descended at 12.36 they would most likely have encountered police men running up the stairs, but they didn't

We also know that Adams and Styles left the building at the back, walked around the loading dock and towards the railroad yard. At some point a policeman told them to return to the building and they did so by walking towards Elm street, passing the TSBD and it's warehouse extension at the west side of the building, and turning left on the dead end parallel road in front of the TSBD and walking toward the main entrance, where they arrived at 12.35, as Styles went immediately into the building, which at that time was not yet sealed off.

I would argue that it would have taken the women, on high heels, at least four minutes to walk the distance around the building and have a conversation with the policeman. Working backwards, this would mean that they must have left the building no later than 12.31 which fits perfectly with the scenario of them leaving the window immediately after the shots, running towards the stairs, going down and just missing Truly and Baker.

And then there is this to consider;

Victoria Adams told the FBI on 11/24/63 that she and Styles went down the stairs immediately after the last shot. She said the same thing again to Jim Leavelle on 02/07/64, again to the FBI on 03/23/64 and she repeated it again in her testimony. Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that the girls went down before Truly and Baker came up. And Sandra Styles told the FBI on 03/19/64 she and Adams left "at that time" after hearing the shots and seeing people running.

Your 4th option basically requires all these statements to be false.

If you don't think these statements are false, we can rule out option 4 all together, which basically leaves us, to reach agreement, options 1 and 2

1. The encounter never happened and Adams remembered something that never took place.
2. The girls crossed paths with Shelley and Lovelady at the parking lot and Adams only parcially remembered

Right?