Sorry Martin, not only did Truly and Baker never see Adams, Vickie testified that she saw Lovelady and Shelley together on the first floor and we know that Lovelady and Shelley entered the building much much later, and in addition what completely destroys your desperate ideas is that Adams made a correction on that very page of her signed deposition. Oops! Try again!
Btw when do we get to see your "real" evidence? Hahahaha!
JohnM
You clearly don't know the evidence as well as you think.
In her testimony Vickie Adams does say that she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor, but Shelley and Lovelady said in their testimony they did not see her! Nevertheless, Vickie did most likely indeed see both men,
but not immediately after coming off the stairs.
According to the Stroud letter, Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that Adams and Styles went down the stairs before she saw Truly and Baker come up. If this is true, the girls must have cleared the stairs on the 1st floor prior to Truly and Baker getting on to them, which in turn would mean that they would have had to leave the 4th floor within mere seconds after the shots. On 11/24/63 Victoria Adams was interviewed by FBI agents Hardin and Scott. She told them that she and Styles immediately ran to the stairs after the third shot and left the building at the back directly after coming down the stairs. They ran towards the railroad yard where a policeman stopped them and told them to return to the building, which they subsequently did.
The stairs used by Adams and Styles, and allegedly also used by Oswald, were in the back of the building. Some years ago Discovery's "unsolved history" attempted to reconstruct the timeline between the shots and the Baker/Oswald encounter in the 2nd floor lunchroom. Although not a completely accurate reconstruction (they did not include the landings on each floor and used stairs that continued on downwards without interruption) the video IMO does provide us with a fairly reasonable estimate of how much time was roughly needed to get from the front windows of the building to the stairs in the back, which is about 25 to 30 seconds.
As Adams and Styles would have to cover nearly the same, if not exactly the same, distance as Oswald, who in the video is presumed to be the gunman, it can be argued that Adams and Styles as well as the gunman would have been at the top of the stairs, about 25 to 30 seconds after the last shot, albeit on the 4th and 6th floor respectively.
The video continues to show "Oswald" coming down the stairs (without taking account for the landings) and arriving at the door of the 2nd floor lunchroom some 48 seconds after the shots. If correct, this would mean that "Oswald" would have had to come down 4 floors of stairs (without the landings) in approx 18 to 23 seconds. If we add on 2 seconds for each landing, that time time would go up to between 26 and 31 seconds. In order for Adams and Styles to stay in front of him, they also would have had a maximum of only 26 seconds to come down at least 2 floors.
In order to find out just how much time would be left for Adams and Styles to come down from the 4th floor and arrive at the 1st floor without seeing Truly and Baker, it has to be established just how long it took Baker and Truly to get to the stairs at the back of the building. The excellent 3d animation made by Mark Tyler offers a good starting point for that determination;
Not a valid vimeo URL
It shows that Baker (initially # 27 as motor cop and later # 46 as a physical person) needed approximately 30 seconds after the last shot to park his motor and run to the entrance of the TSBD building. It should be noted that in the animation Baker crosses paths with Billy Lovelady (# 94) who is moving towards the island and we see Gloria Calvery (# 93) running up to Lovelady to tell him the President had been shot, just like he said in his testimony. So, if Mark Tyler's animation is correct, we have Baker meeting up with Truly at the entrance of the TSBD approx 30 seconds after the last shot, which is roughly the same time as we have Adams and Styles at the top of the stairs on the 4th floor and the gunman at the top of the stairs on the 6th floor. There might be a slight discrepancy of a second or so, here or there, but that would not alter the basic elements of the timeline.
A while back Colin Crow made a video about the time needed by Baker (and Truly) to get to the stairs
If we assume, as the video shows, that it took Baker roughly 30 seconds to the entrance of the TSBD and another 30 seconds to get Baker and Truly from the entrance of the building to the stairs in the back, we end up with the conclusion that Adams and Styles would have had roughly 35 seconds to get from the top of the stairs on the 4th floor to the first floor and out of the building. If, as the Discovery reconstruction shows, "Oswald" could have gotten down four floors to the 2nd floor lunchroom in approx 30 seconds, Adams and Styles probably could have gotten down 3 floors in about the same time and miss Baker and Truly by seconds. But the time available to Adams and Styles is probably a little bit more, because if Baker and Truly were indeed at the bottom of the stairs 60 seconds after the shots, they would have taken at least 15 seconds to go up one floor and "meet" Oswald, which seems a bit too much time to me.
The only real requirement for this entire scenario to work is of course that Adams and Styles must have been on the stairs at the same time as "Oswald" was.
What obviously doesn't fit with this scenario is Adams seeing Shelley and Lovelady at the bottom of the stairs. Even more so as both men, if they had been there, at that moment, must have seen Baker and Truly rushing towards the stairs where Adams and Styles had just been on. There is no statement to that effect from either Shelley or Lovelady.
Shelley said in his testimony that, after hearing the shots, he didn't do anything for a minute. He and Billy Lovelady then went across the street to a little island in front of the TSBD where they again stopped for a minute. While there - and this is IMO crucial - he saw Truly with an officer in front of the entrance of the TSBD. I would argue, that officer was Baker. Shelley estimated that he saw Truly and Baker some 3 minutes after the shots. After that they saw officers running down the railroad yard and they walked down that way on the dead-end street passing by the TSBD. They stayed at the railroad yard for a while and then returned to the TSBD, entering it at the backside through the shipping department where they saw Eddie Piper. Shelley testified he did not recall seeing Victoria Adams on the 1st floor, but added that he might have seen her at some point in time on the 4th floor. In his testimony, Billy Lovelady basically confirms what Shelley had told the WC. He estimated that the distance of the dead end street in front of the TSBD was between 75 and 100 yards. He said that he saw Truly and the officer [Baker] running into the building. He also confirms that Shelley and he entered the TSBD at the back the building. Asked who he saw there he answered: "I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie". He also said he saw "a few of the guys" who had come in.
Obviously, if Shelley and Lovelady entered the building several minutes after the shots, it could well be that Lovelady did indeed see Victoria Adams, who would have been on that floor for several minutes after coming down the stairs. It may even be that Victoria Adams did in fact see Shelley when he entered the building and that she simply did not connect the event to the moment she came down the stairs. In her testimony she said;
Miss ADAMS - A tree. and we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a second shot, and then a third shot.
It sounded like a firecracker or a cannon at a football game, it seemed as if it came from the right below rather than from the left above. Possibly because of the report. And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN - When you say on the way out to the Houston Street dock, you mean now you were on the way out?
Miss ADAMS - While I was on the way out.
Mr. BELIN - Was anyone going along with you?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; Sandra Styles.
Later in he testimony she was asked again, and she basically repeated the same thing;
Mr. BELIN - When you got to the bottom of the first floor, did you see anyone there as you entered the first floor from the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Who did you see?
Miss ADAMS - Mr. Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you see them on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - Well, this is the stairs, and this is the Houston Street dock that I went out. They were approximately in this position here, so I don't know how you would describe that.
So, how much time did go by exactly between Adams and Styles arriving on the 1st floor and seeing Shelley and Lovelady? Was it straight away, a minute later or several minutes later. The testimony is IMO not precise enough to make that determination. Shelley and Lovelady may well have been the first people Adams did see after coming down the stairs, but that could have happened later than when she stepped of the stairs, as the WC said. One thing is for sure, Adams said she saw the men at the Houston Street dock, which is where they apparently came in. So, the sighting did not take place at the bottom of the stairs.
How's that for "real evidence", "Johnny"?
For your "scenario" to work, "Johnny", Adams & Styles must have stayed on the 4th floor at least 4 minutes after the shots, Adams must have lied FBI agents Hardin and Scott on 11/24/63, Dorothy Garner must have lied to Barefoot Sanders and Shelley and Lovelady must have lied in their testimony about not seeing Adams (they don't even mention Styles) or even being near the stairs exit. And all those lies must have been for what?
Do you want to embarras yourself some more with another narrowminded comment, "Johnny"?
