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Author Topic: Is The JFK Assassination and "Coverup" an indication we live in a "Deep State"?  (Read 5920 times)

Offline Tom Scully

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Of course he is...  Oswald did it----Epstein's theory----
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/E%20Disk/Epstein%20Edward%20Jay%20Legend/Item%2036.pdf   
OK where did all that come from? Nixon was at the White House several times. [Perhaps not invited into the living quarters] So what?
The shallower the investigation...the deeper the state.
Was the Oswald diary fake?

My point is that Upton Sinclair had it right, one hundred years ago, in "The Brass Check". "Ownership of the Owners" is a treatise on how the advertisers control the messaging, to protect themselves from being criticized by the journalists who they pay a large portion of the salaries of. Journalists, even those employed by NPR and PBS because both are partially funded by foundations of wealthiest capitalists, are dissuaded from biting the hands that feed them. (See Gary Webb).

Webb was more a victim of "Access journalism" than he was by stepping on toes of advertisers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_journalism

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Carroll_(DIA)
Lieutenant General Joseph Francis Carroll (March 19, 1910 – January 20, 1991) was the founding director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and the first commander of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI or OSI).[1]
....He was instrumental in catching noted gangster Roger "Tough" Touhy, which brought him to the personal attention of FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover. In May 1944, he was transferred to the Washington headquarters of the FBI, where he held progressive positions as supervisor in charge of bank robbery and kidnapping matters, chief of the Criminal Section, and first assistant to the assistant director of the FBI in charge of the General Investigations and Accounting Division.[1]

At the end of World War II, the U.S. Government was faced with the problem of disposition of war surplus property throughout the world. Upon special request from the administrator of the Surplus Property Administration, Carroll was lent by the attorney general and the director of the FBI to the Surplus Property Administration (later the War Assets Administration). In this assignment he organized and directed the Compliance Enforcement Division, directing all investigative activity associated with surplus property disposal. In May 1947, he was recalled to his former position in the FBI as an administrative assistant to the director of the FBI.[1]....
.....
On February 1, 1960, General Carroll was promoted to lieutenant general and became The Inspector General of the U.S. Air Force stationed at Headquarters, U.S. Air Force, in Washington, D.C. He remained in that position until October 1, 1961, when the secretary of defense, Robert S. McNamara, appointed him to his last assignment as the first director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, with the responsibility for controlling Department of Defense (DoD) intelligence resources assigned to DIA and reviewing the intelligence functions assigned the military departments in satisfying the intelligence requirements of the DoD. He retired September 15, 1969.[1]

This is written by a former RC priest, the son of Gen. Joseph Carroll. Gen Carroll happened to employ Declan Ford's brother, in the tiny post WWII Alien Property Dept.:
Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/30/opinion/30iht-edcarroll.4.6900205.html

.....Upton Sinclair, for example, showed the rapaciousness of capitalism, the vampire-like appetite with which it feeds on the blood of human beings. Even with "reforms" ("The Jungle" led to the establishment of the Food and Drug Administration), the profit-worshipping economy to this day eludes controls that would protect majorities of citizens in this country and across the world. Sinclair Lewis, for his part, showed how the simultaneously banalizing methods of capitalist enterprise (false advertising, consumerism, pieties of affluence, amoral bureaucracy) are exactly what that enterprise created to keep from being criticized. ...

Quote
https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-witcover-nixon-eisenhower-20130617-story.html
The two tortured political marriages of Richard Nixon
By BY JULES WITCOVER
JUN 17, 2013 | 11:15 AM

....But the account also underscores that Eisenhower had early doubts about Nixon's maturity for the presidency and how in his fashion he tried to ease him off the Republican ticket in 1956. Nixon's gritty determination not to be pushed aside finally won out. Also related is the thin familial bond forged by the courtship and marriage of Ike's grandson David and Dick's younger daughter Julie that never quite solidified. Nixon later made known that in all those White House years he was never invited to the Eisenhower living quarters there.

You cited Epstein. I think his record indicates he protects the FBI and CIA. I don't disagree Oswald's "diary" is suspect.
Oswald was the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Weiss of his generation. The point being Huey, Carl, JFK, Oswald, and Ruby, all "hadda go"! Carl Weiss, in his time, "was introduced" by, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Zangara .

One thing in Tommy's favor is the "muscling" of Billy Joe Lord by Henry Hurt, at the direction of Bemiss, indicates there was enough concern about what was not known about Oswald among the elite of the mid 1970s political class, that they put themselves in position to be this exposed. The Church and HSCA investigations rattled them enough for Ford to not leave it at the farce "Commission" controlled by his unelected V.P., Rockefeller. Ford took the extra precaution of appointed the visibly unqualified Bush as DCI.








Quote
The China Diary of George H. W. Bush: The Making of a Global ...
Bemis, Lias and Devine had a meeting regarding my political future—very thoughtful of them.5 All I know now is to do the best job one can here. There is no ..

The details above reinforce Tommy's theory the Soviets used Oswald to hoist the U.S. conservative political elite on their own petard, maneuvering them into covering up for the KGB taking out a U.S. President and a Soviet Premier partnering in the direction of a lasting peace.

I try to bend in the direction indicated by the evidence, like it or not.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 12:08:29 AM by Tom Scully »

JFK Assassination Forum


Offline Tom Scully

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Sorry, Tom, but you're full of beans.

Your proclivity to look for "connections" through 17 degrees of separation, or whatever, and your stubborn belief that the evil, evil, evil CIA (and the woebegone, duped-by-KGB FBI?) is the cause of most of the world's ills, tends to do that to you.

You've probably just read too much garbage by John L. Hart, Leonard V. McCoy, John L. Hart, Richards J. Heuer, Cleveland Cram, "Jumbo Duh," Jefferson Morley, David Wise, Tom Mangold, et al. ... ad nauseam.

Ever get around to actually reading "Spy Wars," Tom?

--  MWT  ;)

Sometimes, things are as they seem. Not all that "Deep" :

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/88891802/langbourne-meade-williams


John Skelton Williams: After the Jekyll Island meeting in 1910, first Comptroller of the Currency
https://www.federalreservehistory.org/people/john_skelton_williams
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/10866484/john-skelton-williams
   
Cyane Dandridge Williams Bemiss : Grandmother of Henry Hurt's "advisor", described in 1977 letter to Jimmy Carter.:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/65388323/fitzgerald-bemiss

Langbourne Meade Williams : Chairman of Freeport Sulphur, after persuading Jock Whitney to finance the take over.

George Dandridge Williams : Father of Henry Hurt's wife.

The background of the creation of the Federal Reserve:

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Federal_Reserve_System#The_National_Monetary_Commission,_1907-1913
......
Prior to a particularly severe panic in 1907, there was a motivation for renewed demands for banking and currency reform.[4] The following year, Congress enacted the Aldrich-Vreeland Act which provided for an emergency currency and established the National Monetary Commission to study banking and currency reform.[5]

Fed Reserve.JPG
The chief of the bipartisan National Monetary Commission was financial expert and Senate Republican leader Nelson Aldrich. Aldrich set up two commissions – one to study the American monetary system in depth and the other, headed by Aldrich, to study the European central-banking systems and report on them.[5]

The grandson of Sen. Nelson Aldrich wrote a book. It helps to explain what we are witnessing in real-time... the second Federal Reserve bailout, (fool me once, shame on you,....) on the backs of adding to the debt burden on the shoulders of our grandchildren, to keep Trump-n-cult living in the style they are accustomed to. No "Deep State", merely the right wing control paid for by the wealthiest republican party donors......

https://www.amazon.com/Old-Money-Mythology-Wealth-America/dp/1880559641
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 12:54:48 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Thomas Graves

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Sometimes, things are as they seem. Not all that "Deep" :

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/88891802/langbourne-meade-williams


John Skelton Williams: One of the few Jekyll Island meeting attendees in 1913, first Comptroller of the Currency
   
Cyane Dandridge Williams Bemiss : Grandmother of Henry Hurt's "advisor", described in 1977 letter to Jimmy Carter.

Langbourne Meade Williams : Chairman of Freeport Sulphur, after persuading Jock Whitney to finance the take over.

George Dandridge Williams : Father of Henry Hurt's wife.

Tom,

Should we be impressed by these strung-out gossamer "connections," not unlike the mess of strings and thumbtacks in that schizo, dreamlike scene in ... "A Beautiful Mind"?

Should we expect (or demand!) that all Americans who are strongly anti-Communist and/or anti-Fascistic-KGB-MAFIA intermarry, do business with, and rub elbows with rabble rousing Plebes like you and I?

Why do you carry-guilt-by association to such ridiculous extremes (if, indeed, it IS guilt ... hmm)?

Do you, like Lee Harvey Oswald, hanker for the day when we live in a Truly Classless Society?

LOL

--  MWT  ;)

Poor Tom's a-cold.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_o%27_Bedlam
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 12:57:32 AM by Thomas Graves »

JFK Assassination Forum


Offline Tom Scully

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Sorry, Tommy.... you jumped the gun. I amended what you've quoted to the extent my point is lost, in what you've quoted.

People dismiss what they don't understand as "Deep State", because it's weedy. It's too much of a bother to exert the concentration and expend the time to get down into the weeds, examine the detail.

I was not finished. I presented a page from the book by the grandson of the Senator, Nelson W Aldrich, credited with drafting the legislation authorizing creation of the Federal Reserve.

The grandson came to my attention because of his several friends who were C.I.A. The C.I.A. is not "Deep". It plays by Trump's script, as described by Henry Breck, godfather of the son of DCI Bush's counsel, Tony Lapham, who also allegedly never served with CIA prior to Bush "bringing him on board".

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/27/books/27masl.html
....
None of this is un-self-conscious. Nelson W. Aldrich Jr., the book’s overseeing editor (and part of an 8-member team that questioned 374 interviewees), treats rampant Georgeness as a fair reflection of the hagiography that surrounded Mr. Plimpton during his long career as editor, writer and bon vivant.....

Ironically, George DeMohrenschildt also was an alleged roughneck....

https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1951/02/25/issue.html


The Odessa American from Odessa, Texas · Page 14
www.newspapers.com/newspage/53264721/

... In Pecos County, A1bert C. Bruce Jr. and Thomas J. Devine, Midland operators, will drill the No. 1 G. R.


The night before the wedding in the image above, best man Iglehart and his sister, Anne, described in the obit below, hosted a dinner for Jackie's best friend, bride to be, Leigh, and her fiance, A1bert Bruce.:

Quote
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1992-03-22-1992082060-story.html
March 22, 1992

Anne I. Sommers

Worked at the CIA

A memorial service for Anne Iglehart Sommers, a Baltimore native and former CIA employee, will be at 11 a.m. Saturday at Christ Church of Georgetown in Washington.

Mrs. Sommers died Friday at her home in Chevy Chase of lung cancer. She was 63.

In the early 1950s, she was a CIA operations officer for East Germany for two years. In May 1953, she married Frank Feldher Sommers, a CIA officer. They lived in Frankfurt, Germany; Vienna, Austria; Bern, Switzerland; and Vientiane, Laos.

Mrs. Sommers served on embassy committees and school boards in each of these cities.

From 1981 to 1991, she was an administrative assistant at the International Management and Development Institute, a non-profit group in Washington that worked with Fortune 500 companies and major corporations abroad.

Mrs. Sommers attended the Calvert and Bryn Mawr schools in Baltimore and graduated from Bryn Mawr College in Bryn Mawr, Pa.

She is survived by her husband; two daughters, Wing Sommers Blake of Washington and ....


Not to be outdone, after her failed marriage to A1bert Bruce, Jackie's best friend Leigh married another CIA associate, ofParis Review:

Quote
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/10194-the-phil-ochs-question/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-273507
......
Consider the links of John Macomber to William HG Fitzgerald, Fitzgerald's role as senior in the CIA heavy SMOM, and Fitzgerald's best man, Ernest Byfield Jr. who was a V.P. at Jesse "Tom" Ellington's advert agency, with longtime principle client, Celanese Corp., and there is little need to even bring up George Ohrstrom who was close to Matthiessen and Bush, and Cass Canfield and his stepson Blair Fuiller who was a Paris Review editor, or even Clement Biddle Wood, into the picture in order to have an impressive jigsaw puzzle in which some of the pieces match.

A Role In 'Tycoon For Mrs. Onassis?: Sought After A TV News Offer VIP

By Maxine Cheshire. The Washington Post 13 July 1975: 110.

Say.... Tommy, didn't Jackie work for Guinzburg at Viking, just after she wrapped things up with Ari, in Greece, and wasn't Plimpton with Bobby in the basement of the Ambassador Hotel, and isn't Train, Tom Devine's Wubriny partner? And wasn't Jackie's best friend, Leigh, all "spooked up"? Wasn't Jackie's sister married to Michael Canfield, adopted son of Evan Thomas's boss and Allen Dulles's autobiography editor, Cass Canfield, who paid for private security during Svetlana's "stay" at Kaintuck, with newly married Priscilla Macmillan?

And Tommy, didn't Charles Bartlett grow up on Jupiter Island, with Poppy and Pres? I don't think the CIA kill their own fair haired boys n girls, do you?

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/1973/01/07/archives/from-a-oneworld-crusade-to-the-department-of-dirty-tricks-one-mans.html
One man's long journey —From a one‐world crusade to the ‘department of dirty tricks’
By Merle Miller - Jan. 7, 1973
......
.....Charles Bartlett, the Washington columnist who was a classmate of Meyer's at Yale and is still a close friend and fellow tennis player, says, “Cord is really a very funny man. He has great humor, but it is not slapstick humor. It is very sophisticated; he draws on soft irony, you might say.”

Finks: How the C.I.A. Tricked the World's Best Writers
By Joel Whitney


Quote
https://jfkfacts.org/obama-prepares-future-critics-dwell-past/#comment-864468
Tom S. - March 23, 2016 at 1:56 am
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4594&p=255641
….On edit, I notice now that Valentine writes in his book, “The strength of the wolf: the secret history of America’s war on drugs,” that Anthony Lapham was an assistant to David Acheson in 1966, and is listed as an Asst. U.S. Attorney at that time. Valentine writes (see- https://books.google.com/books?id=Bed0gQKn-ucC&pg=PA440&lpg=PA440&dq=lapham+Andrew+Tartaglino&source=bl&ots=kvZ3dpZmzi&sig=ueXgSOBp8eTTo1CKdc1gY4hba_s&hl=en&ei=pfeUTJrdL4O0lQfj5_GnCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false)
that Anthony Lapham “directed FBN agent Andrew Tartaglino to shut down a second MKULTRA safehouse on (105 West) 13th Street in New York. Valentine writes that Lapham was then a covert CIA agent. Valentine is the only source I can find for this, but..

The Very Best Men: Four Who Dared: The Early Years of the CIA – Page 91
http://books.google.com/books?id=oZU7u0GiMEUC&pg=PA91&dq=breck+class+most+to+lose&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WLuNUefcBZDm9gSvm4GoDw&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAg
Evan Thomas – 1996 –

“The Brits were the most bloodthirsty of all,” said Henry Breck, Groton ’54, a CIA case officer in India in the 1960s. “Of course, if you’re in a real war you must fight hard — and the upper classes fight the hardest. They have the most to lose. …

Henry Breck s the godfather of bonesman Lewis Lapham’s grandson. Lapham’s son, Anthony was best man in Breck’s wedding. Anthony Lapham’s wife Burks’ father was bonesman Harry Payne Bingham.

Anthony A. Lapham was sponsored by bonesman David C. Acheson and then by bonesman George HW Bush.:

Complete Oral History Package (930 KB) – Dcchs.org
http://dcchs.org/DavidCAcheson/DavidCAcheson_Complete.pdf
DAVID C. ACHESON. First Interview – January 27, 2010….
.......

Tommy, is anyone taking your unique research details, and without attribution, publishing them? Maybe if you were a li'l nicer...

google.com/books....
Clash of Dynasties: Why Gov. Nelson Rockefeller Killed Jfk, Rfk, and Ordered ...
By Richard James DeSocio


.....
Quote
http://books.google.com/books?cd=1&q=T...nG=Search+Books
The Kennedy assassination cover-up‎ - Page 96

Donald Gibson

...Warren then said that A1bert Jenner of Chicago had been suggested. Warrem did not identify the source of the suggestion. ...Warren said that he had checked on Jenner with a number of people and they all recommended him.

Two of Jenner's references were mentioned by name. Tom Clark former Attorney General of the U.S. and active supporter in the Truman years of J. Edgar Hoover's anti subversion efforts, knew Jenner through their common participation on the Judiciary Committee of the American Bar Association. The other named supporter of Jenner was Dean Acheson, who had worked with Jenner on Acheson's committee on civil rights. Jenner came to the Commission then with recommendations from and past connections to one of the people involved in creating the Commission and someone who was at one time at least, close to Hoover.

Unfortunately, there is very little additional information on the selection of Counsel and organization of the Commission in the Executive Session transcripts....
......
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 02:10:54 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Thomas Graves

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Sorry, Tommy.... you jumped the gun. I amended what you've quoted to the extent my point is lost, in what you've quoted.

People dismiss what they don't understand as "Deep State", because it's weedy. It's too much of a bother to exert the concentration and expend the time to get down into the weeds, examine the detail.

I was not finished. I presented a page from the book by the grandson of the Senator, Nelson W Aldrich, credited with drafting the legislation authorizing creation of the Federal Reserve.

The grandson came to my attention because of his several friends who were C.I.A. The C.I.A. is not "Deep". It plays by Trump's script, as described by Henry Breck, godfather of the son of DCI Bush's counsel, Tony Lapham, who also allegedly never served with CIA prior to Bush "bringing him on board".

Say.... Tommy, didn't Jackie work for Guinzburg at Viking, just after she wrapped things up with Ari, in Greece, and wasn't Plimpton with Bobby in the basement of the Ambassador Hotel, and isn't Train, Tom Devine's Wubriny partner? And wasn't Jackie's best friend, Leigh, all "spooked up"?

Finks: How the C.I.A. Tricked the World's Best Writers
By Joel Whitney


Tommy, is anyone taking your unique research details, and without attribution, publishing them? Maybe if you were a li'l nicer...

google.com/books....
Clash of Dynasties: Why Gov. Nelson Rockefeller Killed Jfk, Rfk, and Ordered ...
By Richard James DeSocio

......

Dear Tom,

I couldn't care less what your opinions are on the "evil, evil, evil CIA", the Georgetown Set, Skull and Bones, The Dulles Brothers, Operation Gladio, Reader's Digest, the Rothschilds, the Bilderberg Club, The Trilateral Commission, The World Bank, The Council on Foreign Relations, Globalism, George Soros, Bohemian Grove, The Federal Reserve, The Rockefellers, John McCone, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

In my humble opinion, you're not really "full of beans," you're simply ... well ... a rather ill man.

--  MWT  ;)
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 02:13:43 AM by Thomas Graves »

JFK Assassination Forum


Offline Tom Scully

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Dear Tom,

I couldn't care less what your opinions are on the "evil, evil, evil CIA", the Georgetown Set, Skull and Bones, The Dulles Brothers, Operation Gladio, Reader's Digest, the Rothschilds, the Bilderbast Group, Bohemian Grove, The Federal Reserve, etc, etc.

In my humble opinion, you're not really "full of beans," you're simply ... well ... a rather ill man.

--  MWT  ;)

Pot..... kettle. Tommy, if it isn't obvious to you by now, considering Jack surrounded himself with Bartlett and Bradlee and Bartlett allegedly introduced Jack and Jackie on the occasion of the wedding of his spooky brother, David, and Smathers was in Jack and Jackie's wedding party, (dare I say it?) Jack and Jackie were.... Deep State!

« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 02:30:05 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Thomas Graves

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Pot..... kettle. Tommy, if it isn't obvious to you by now, considering Jack surrounded himself with Bartlett and Bradlee and Bartlett allegedly introduced Jack and Jackie on the occasion of the wedding of his spooky brother, David, and Smathers was in Jack and Jackie's wedding party, (dare I say it?) Jack and Jackie were.... Deep State!

Tom,

Once again -- do you, like Lee Harvey Oswald, hanker wistfully for the day when we live in a truly classless society?

--  MWT ;)

JFK Assassination Forum


Offline Tom Scully

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Tom,

Once again -- do you, like Lee Harvey Oswald, hanker wistfully for the day when we live in a truly classless society?

--  MWT ;)

LOL ! Hal Korda is my hero, Tommy. Despite not even finishing high school, he climbed into a plane on a NY airport tarmac in 1962 and told the passengers, top executives of the major U.S. steel producers, to rescind their recent price hikes, and they did.
Oswald did not complete high school, either. Reindeer don't even attend school....
Quote
....You'll go down in history!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 02:48:45 AM by Tom Scully »