This is how the rifle was gotten into the building

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Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2020, 12:04:17 AM »
ESTIMATED: Like Buell Frazier and Linnie May Randle ESTIMATED Oswald's "Friday morning package" to be 2 feet give or take a few inches. That means as much as 27 inches. The shortest the package could have been (if it contained Oswald's Carcano rifle) was 35 inches. When disassembled, the longest part was the wooden stock which was 34.8 inches long. A discrepancy of 8 inches is accounted for by the fact that Randle and Frazier did not "measure" Oswald's package: they ESTIMATED its length.

So let's have no more of that claim: The package that Randle and Frazier saw Oswald carry on the morning of 22 November 1963 was "too short" to contain the Carcano rifle.

And that I believe is CHECKMATE.

And that I believe is CHECKMATE.

You are funny ... but you should never play chess.

Frazier said Oswald carried the package under his armpit and in his cupped hand, which makes it about as long as Oswald's arm and thus impossible to have been long enough to conceal a broken down MC rifle.

So why don't you stop cherry picking the evidence?

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2020, 12:04:17 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2020, 12:14:42 AM »
A 5 or 6 foot long package!!! That's too long for a 40 inch Carcano rifle.

Curious....why is it too long? Did it have to be exactly 40 inches and no more?
Quote
Frazier did not "measure" Oswald's package
It was supposedly 3 feet from him laying on the car seat... :-\
You are funny....Frazier said Oswald carried the package under his armpit and in his cupped hand, which makes it about as long as Oswald's arm and thus impossible to have been long enough to conceal a broken down MC rifle. So why don't you stop cherry picking the evidence?
Do you really and truly think he is funny? 

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2020, 12:14:42 AM »

Offline Ross Lidell

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2020, 12:28:36 AM »
And that I believe is CHECKMATE.

You are funny ... but you should never play chess.

Frazier said Oswald carried the package under his armpit and in his cupped hand, which makes it about as long as Oswald's arm and thus impossible to have been long enough to conceal a broken down MC rifle.

So why don't you stop cherry picking the evidence?

Frazier said Oswald carried the package under his armpit and in his cupped hand, which makes it about as long as Oswald's arm and thus impossible to have been long enough to conceal a broken down MC rifle.

There are two (2) ways for the package to be carried "in his cupped hand" and "under his armpit".

I think you're confused. You meant to imply "IN" his armpit; which would mean the package was snug in that recess where the top of the arm meets the torso. That's only one (1) way the package could be carried "under the armpit": with the package length perpendicular to the ground.

The second way is most likely how Oswald carried his "Carcano" package. Yes, the bottom of the package rested in Oswald's cupped right hand. The package was held parallel to the body but not perpendicular to the ground. The package was angled forward slightly protruding in front of Oswald's body. To stabilize the package when walking: Oswald placed his left arm across his chest holding the package "towards its top" with his left hand. This would permit the package to be obscured by Oswald's neck and face: It would not be long enough to block his eyesight. This perfectly reasonable (and possible) option explains why Frazier--looking from behind--did not see the top of the 35" long package which extended above Oswald's shoulder line. It explains why Frazier could have thought the top of the package was "in" Oswald's armpit.

And that I believe "is" CHECKMATE.


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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2020, 12:28:36 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2020, 01:33:04 AM »
The second way is most likely how Oswald carried his "Carcano" package. Yes, the bottom of the package rested in Oswald's cupped right hand. The package was ...blah blah
 And that I believe "is" CHECKMATE.
I take it back...MW is correct---You are funny.

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2020, 01:33:04 AM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2020, 01:43:56 AM »
Frazier said Oswald carried the package under his armpit and in his cupped hand, which makes it about as long as Oswald's arm and thus impossible to have been long enough to conceal a broken down MC rifle.

There are two (2) ways for the package to be carried "in his cupped hand" and "under his armpit".

I think you're confused. You meant to imply "IN" his armpit; which would mean the package was snug in that recess where the top of the arm meets the torso. That's only one (1) way the package could be carried "under the armpit": with the package length perpendicular to the ground.

The second way is most likely how Oswald carried his "Carcano" package. Yes, the bottom of the package rested in Oswald's cupped right hand. The package was held parallel to the body but not perpendicular to the ground. The package was angled forward slightly protruding in front of Oswald's body. To stabilize the package when walking: Oswald placed his left arm across his chest holding the package "towards its top" with his left hand. This would permit the package to be obscured by Oswald's neck and face: It would not be long enough to block his eyesight. This perfectly reasonable (and possible) option explains why Frazier--looking from behind--did not see the top of the 35" long package which extended above Oswald's shoulder line. It explains why Frazier could have thought the top of the package was "in" Oswald's armpit.

And that I believe "is" CHECKMATE.

The second way is most likely how Oswald carried his "Carcano" package. Yes, the bottom of the package rested in Oswald's cupped right hand. The package was held parallel to the body but not perpendicular to the ground. The package was angled forward slightly protruding in front of Oswald's body. To stabilize the package when walking: Oswald placed his left arm across his chest holding the package "towards its top" with his left hand. This would permit the package to be obscured by Oswald's neck and face: It would not be long enough to block his eyesight. This perfectly reasonable (and possible) option explains why Frazier--looking from behind--did not see the top of the 35" long package which extended above Oswald's shoulder line. It explains why Frazier could have thought the top of the package was "in" Oswald's armpit.

The above is the concoction of an irrational brain.....

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2020, 01:43:56 AM »

Offline Ross Lidell

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2020, 01:57:09 AM »
The second way is most likely how Oswald carried his "Carcano" package. Yes, the bottom of the package rested in Oswald's cupped right hand. The package was held parallel to the body but not perpendicular to the ground. The package was angled forward slightly protruding in front of Oswald's body. To stabilize the package when walking: Oswald placed his left arm across his chest holding the package "towards its top" with his left hand. This would permit the package to be obscured by Oswald's neck and face: It would not be long enough to block his eyesight. This perfectly reasonable (and possible) option explains why Frazier--looking from behind--did not see the top of the 35" long package which extended above Oswald's shoulder line. It explains why Frazier could have thought the top of the package was "in" Oswald's armpit.

The above is the concoction of an irrational brain.....

What an idiotic reply.

Your Ad hominem attack reveals your desperation to reply: Though you have nothing of substance to include in your attempted rebuttal.

Have you seen Jerry Organ's splendid graphic that is a representation of how Lee Harvey Oswald could have carried the long package to the Book Depository? That convinced me it's eminently plausible that Oswald could have carried the package as described above.

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2020, 01:57:09 AM »

Online Gerry Down

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2020, 02:07:14 AM »
Linnie Mae Randle poses the real problem here. She got a clearer view of the package than Frazier and her description of a package is closer to the 27 inches she remembers. I dont know why this is and opens the possibility the rifle got in to the TSBD some other way:

Mr. BALL. Was he carrying any package?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes; he was.
Mr. BALL. What was he carrying?
Mrs. RANDLE. He was carrying a package in a sort of a heavy brown bag, heavier than a grocery bag it looked to me. It was about, if I might measure, about this long, I suppose, and he carried it in his right hand, had the top sort of folded down and had a grip like this, and the bottom, he carried it this way, you know, and it almost touched the ground as he carried it.
Mr. BALL. Let me see. He carried it in his right hand, did he?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.
Mr. BALL. And where was his hand gripping the middle of the package?
Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir; the top with just a little bit sticking up. You know just like you grab something like that.
Mr. BALL. And he was grabbing it with his right hand at the top of the package and the package almost touched the ground?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2020, 02:07:14 AM »

Offline Ross Lidell

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2020, 02:31:05 AM »
Linnie Mae Randle poses the real problem here. She got a clearer view of the package than Frazier and her description of a package is closer to the 27 inches she remembers. I dont know why this is and opens the possibility the rifle got in to the TSBD some other way:

Mr. BALL. Was he carrying any package?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes; he was.
Mr. BALL. What was he carrying?
Mrs. RANDLE. He was carrying a package in a sort of a heavy brown bag, heavier than a grocery bag it looked to me. It was about, if I might measure, about this long, I suppose, and he carried it in his right hand, had the top sort of folded down and had a grip like this, and the bottom, he carried it this way, you know, and it almost touched the ground as he carried it.
Mr. BALL. Let me see. He carried it in his right hand, did he?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.
Mr. BALL. And where was his hand gripping the middle of the package?
Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir; the top with just a little bit sticking up. You know just like you grab something like that.
Mr. BALL. And he was grabbing it with his right hand at the top of the package and the package almost touched the ground?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.

The above does not describe the precise alignment of Oswald's hand. Was it essentially perpendicular to the ground or was the portion between the elbow and the wrist more close to parallel to the ground?

Linnie May Randle "guessed" the length (and width) of Oswald's package. It was an E S T I M A T E.

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2020, 02:31:05 AM »

Online Gerry Down

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2020, 02:40:36 AM »
Linnie May Randle "guessed" the length (and width) of Oswald's package. It was an E S T I M A T E.

I know. But her estimate was the same as Fraziers. That was always a problem for the WC. There was and is something uncomfortable about it.

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2020, 02:40:36 AM »

Offline Ross Lidell

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Re: This is how the rifle was gotten into the building
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2020, 02:49:54 AM »
I know. But her estimate was the same as Fraziers. That was always a problem for the WC. There was and is something uncomfortable about it.

There is no "rule-book of the Universe" that says "2 estimates must be accurate if they are the same". The 2 estimates could both be inaccurate.

 

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