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Author Topic: Trump....and the end of American democracy  (Read 10090 times)

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2020, 10:28:58 AM »
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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2020, 10:28:58 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2020, 11:57:13 AM »
I think the post is nonsense. Trump was absolutely right to dispute the ridiculous, needless COVID-19 restrictions imposed by so many governors and backed by the quack Anthony Fauci (who has a long history of being very wrong about diseases). The restrictions were based on models that have been exposed as bogus. The CDC has now admitted that the case death rate for COVID-19 might be as low as 0.26%, which is in the range of the case death rate for the common flu (0.13% to 0.25%). Studies have showed that even extreme lockdown measures have had no substantive effect on COVID-19's transmission and death rates, and some evidence indicates that such measures have actually made things worse.

The 1957-1958 Asian Flu pandemic killed 116,000 Americans. That was 0.066% of the U.S. population. Our population was 175 million at the time. Our current population is 328.2 million. 0.066% of 328.2 million would be 216,000 deaths. However, in response to the Asian Flu pandemic, we did not panic and did not impose extreme lockdown measures; as a result, we did not put tens of millions of people out of work, did not force thousands of businesses to close, did not close schools all over the country, and did not require people to wear masks. Why did we not panic back then? Why are we panicking now?

The 1968 Hong Kong Flu pandemic killed 100,000 Americans. That was 0.05% of the U.S. population. Our population was 200.7 million at the time. 0.05% of our current population would be 164,000 deaths. As we had done with the Asian Flu, we did not panic and did not impose drastic lockdown measures and therefore did not wreck a large chunk of our economy and did not put millions of people out of work.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/erosion-trust-10-things-public-health-establishment-got-wrong-about

https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/16/research-finds-lockdowns-are-far-worse-for-health-and-lives-than-coronavirus/

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/05/david-stockman/the-three-nations-of-covid-and-a-windbag-named-fauci/

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/health/dr-faucis-recurring-nightmares-covid-19-might-be-his-worst-its-sure-not-his
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 01:36:31 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2020, 02:15:58 PM »
I think the post is nonsense. Trump was absolutely right to dispute the ridiculous, needless COVID-19 restrictions imposed by so many governors and backed by the quack Anthony Fauci (who has a long history of being very wrong about diseases). The restrictions were based on models that have been exposed as bogus. The CDC has now admitted that the case death rate for COVID-19 might be as low as 0.26%, which is in the range of the case death rate for the common flu (0.13% to 0.25%). Studies have showed that even extreme lockdown measures have had no substantive effect on COVID-19's transmission and death rates, and some evidence indicates that such measures have actually made things worse.

The 1957-1958 Asian Flu pandemic killed 116,000 Americans. That was 0.066% of the U.S. population. Our population was 175 million at the time. Our current population is 328.2 million. 0.066% of 328.2 million would be 216,000 deaths. However, in response to the Asian Flu pandemic, we did not panic and did not impose extreme lockdown measures; as a result, we did not put tens of millions of people out of work, did not force thousands of businesses to close, did not close schools all over the country, and did not require people to wear masks. Why did we not panic back then? Why are we panicking now?

The 1968 Hong Kong Flu pandemic killed 100,000 Americans. That was 0.05% of the U.S. population. Our population was 200.7 million at the time. 0.05% of our current population would be 164,000 deaths. As we had done with the Asian Flu, we did not panic and did not impose drastic lockdown measures and therefore did not wreck a large chunk of our economy and did not put millions of people out of work.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/erosion-trust-10-things-public-health-establishment-got-wrong-about

https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/16/research-finds-lockdowns-are-far-worse-for-health-and-lives-than-coronavirus/

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/05/david-stockman/the-three-nations-of-covid-and-a-windbag-named-fauci/

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/health/dr-faucis-recurring-nightmares-covid-19-might-be-his-worst-its-sure-not-his

Nothing but bogus propaganda here.

Donald Trump is a pathological liar and a failure who caused the Trump Virus to become worse than it was in March. These "needless restrictions" as you claim were implemented in New Zealand and they beat the virus and are a normal functioning country. Donald Trump called COVID-19 a hoax and refused to do anything about it. He demanded states to open early and caused the Trump Virus to explode. The "quack" as you call him warned this would happen and he was 100% correct. This is bogus health disinformation.       

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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2020, 02:15:58 PM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2020, 02:30:32 PM »
Nothing but bogus propaganda here.

Donald Trump is a pathological liar and a failure who caused the Trump Virus to become worse than it was in March. These "needless restrictions" as you claim were implemented in New Zealand and they beat the virus and are a normal functioning country. Donald Trump called COVID-19 a hoax and refused to do anything about it. He demanded states to open early and caused the Trump Virus to explode. The "quack" as you call him warned this would happen and he was 100% correct. This is bogus health disinformation.     

Then how do you explain the fact that South Korea and Taiwan beat the virus without extreme lockdowns?  They kept most of their schools and businesses open. Instead of draconian lockdowns, they used aggressive contact tracing.

Panic peddlers peddle all kind of lame excuses for ignoring the success of Sweden's moderate approach. Sweden's COVID-19 crude death rate continues to be among the best among European nations. And Sweden's COVID-19 numbers are better than Michigan's, which is revealing because Sweden and Michigan's populations are almost identical in size. Michigan imposed an extreme lockdown in mid-March and yet saw a large and long spike in deaths more than 3 weeks after the lockdown began, which should not have happened if lockdown measures save lives vs. moderate measures.

Cold hard statistical fact shows there is simply no correlation between extreme lockdown measures and a reduction in COVID-19 cases and deaths:

As of May 18, some 8 weeks after the lockdown began, states that imposed severe lockdowns to combat COVID-19 were the states with the highest COVID-19 death tolls.

STATE ----- COVID-19 DEATHS ----- POPULATION

NY ---------- 28,097 --------- 19.5 million
NJ ----------- 10,249 --------- 8.9 million
MA ----------- 5,705 ----------- 6.9 million
MI ------------ 4,880 ---------- 10 million
PA ----------- 4,403 ----------- 12.8 million
IL ------------- 4,129 ---------- 12.7 million

States that imposed mild lockdowns had lower COVID-19 death tolls (I’m only showing states with large populations to make the comparison as apples-to-apples as possible):

STATE ----- COVID-19 DEATHS ----- POPULATION
FL ----------- 1,964 ----------- 21.5 million
GA ---------- 1,592 ----------- 10.6 million
TX ---------- 1,305 ----------- 29 million

See also https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/05/david-stockman/the-three-nations-of-covid-and-a-windbag-named-fauci/


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2020, 10:21:41 PM »
We continue to see news reports that stress the increase in the number of COVID-19 cases in the U.S. To put these reports into context, it might help to consider the U.S. COVID-19 crude death rate as of this morning:

U.S.: 0.04176% (137,000 deaths/328.2 million population)

0.04176% is 24 times lower than 1%. A crude death rate of 1% among the U.S. population would equal 3,282,000 deaths. After nearly six months into the pandemic, we are nowhere near that number.

The 1957-1958 Asian Flu pandemic killed the modern equivalent of 216,000 Americans. Yet, there was no lockdown, no shutting down of half the economy, no putting millions of people out of work, no mass closing of schools, etc. Why did we not close schools, shut down half the economy, and put millions of people out of work? Because we decided that such a "cure" be too destructive compared to a more moderate approach.

To put this into further context, consider the following annual death tolls from other causes of death in the U.S.:

640,000 --- heart disease
590,000 --- cancer
250,000 --- medical errors
169,000 –- accidents
160,000 --- chronic lower respiratory diseases

Imagine if the major news outlets reported on medical errors in the same way that most of them have reported on COVID-19. Medical errors kill about 250,000 Americans each year, or about 684 per day, 4,700 per week, or 20,800 per month. Imagine the panic that would occur if we were subjected to daily reports like the following:

“Yesterday over 600 Americans died from medical errors.”
“Last week, 30% more Americans went to the doctor than usual, and the number of deaths from medical errors rose by 4,500.”
“The death toll from medical errors continues to rise, with over 1,800 American dying from medical errors over the last three days alone.”
“Three months into this year have seen over 60,000 Americans die from medical errors.”

COVID-19 is nothing to take lightly, especially if you are elderly or medically ill. But it is not the Black Plague or the Spanish Flu. If you look at the cold hard numbers, you will see that COVID-19 is not drastically more dangerous than the common flu.

The substantial majority of Americans who catch COVID-19 have at least a 98.7% chance of *not* dying from it, according to every statistic we have. People aged 1-49 who catch the virus have a survival rate of at least 99.5%. The **overall average** survival rate in the U.S. is 95.8%, but you really need to look at the survival rates by age group because there is a huge difference between the rates for ages 65 and over and the rates for ages 64 and below.

I believe that eventually we will look back and realize that the lockdown was a huge mistake, that a much more moderate, targeted approach would have been far better--for everyone.

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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2020, 10:21:41 PM »


Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2020, 08:46:07 AM »
Then how do you explain the fact that South Korea and Taiwan beat the virus without extreme lockdowns?  They kept most of their schools and businesses open. Instead of draconian lockdowns, they used aggressive contact tracing.

Panic peddlers peddle all kind of lame excuses for ignoring the success of Sweden's moderate approach. Sweden's COVID-19 crude death rate continues to be among the best among European nations. And Sweden's COVID-19 numbers are better than Michigan's, which is revealing because Sweden and Michigan's populations are almost identical in size. Michigan imposed an extreme lockdown in mid-March and yet saw a large and long spike in deaths more than 3 weeks after the lockdown began, which should not have happened if lockdown measures save lives vs. moderate measures.

Cold hard statistical fact shows there is simply no correlation between extreme lockdown measures and a reduction in COVID-19 cases and deaths:

As of May 18, some 8 weeks after the lockdown began, states that imposed severe lockdowns to combat COVID-19 were the states with the highest COVID-19 death tolls.

STATE ----- COVID-19 DEATHS ----- POPULATION

NY ---------- 28,097 --------- 19.5 million
NJ ----------- 10,249 --------- 8.9 million
MA ----------- 5,705 ----------- 6.9 million
MI ------------ 4,880 ---------- 10 million
PA ----------- 4,403 ----------- 12.8 million
IL ------------- 4,129 ---------- 12.7 million

States that imposed mild lockdowns had lower COVID-19 death tolls (I’m only showing states with large populations to make the comparison as apples-to-apples as possible):

STATE ----- COVID-19 DEATHS ----- POPULATION
FL ----------- 1,964 ----------- 21.5 million
GA ---------- 1,592 ----------- 10.6 million
TX ---------- 1,305 ----------- 29 million

See also https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/05/david-stockman/the-three-nations-of-covid-and-a-windbag-named-fauci/

Dear Mike,

You do realize, don't you, that we aren't even in the "second wave," yet?

Regardless, what's the Covid-19 morbidity rate in the U.S.?

--  MWT  ;)

PS  Personal question: Do you wear a mask when you're shopping, etc?  (I do.)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 08:47:46 AM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2020, 11:58:43 AM »
As further proof that Sweden's moderate approach to COVID-19 has been successful, Sweden's COVID-19 crude death rate continues to compare very well with that of other European nations. Here are the COVID-19 crude death rates (not case death rates, but crude death rates) for European nations as of yesterday. Just for grins and giggles, I have included Michigan, since Michigan and Sweden’s populations are nearly identical in size and since Michigan imposed draconian lockdown measures in March. Notice that Sweden’s crude death rate is still well below that of several other European nations, and well below Michigan’s. Sweden has achieved these numbers without closing all schools, without shutting down thousands of businesses, and without forcing millions of people to lose their jobs.

Belgium------------ 0.08510% (9,782 deaths/11.5 million population)
England------------ 0.07976% (44,650 deaths/56.0 million population)
Michigan----------- 0.06329% (6,316 deaths/9.9 million population)
Spain--------------- 0.06057% (28,403 deaths/46.9 million population)
Italy---------------- 0.05792% (34,938 deaths/60.3 million population)
Sweden------------ 0.05403% (5,526 deaths/10.2 million population) <<<<<<<<<
France------------- 0.04464% (29,907 deaths/67.0 million population)
Ireland------------- 0.03559% (1,744 deaths/4.9 million population)
Netherlands------- 0.03541% (6,127 deaths/17.3 million population)
Switzerland-------- 0.01967% (1,685 deaths/8.6 million population)
Germany----------- 0.01092% (9,060 deaths/83.0 million population)
Norway------------- 0.00470% (252 deaths/5.37 million population)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 12:00:09 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2020, 11:58:43 AM »


Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Trump....and the end of American democracy
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2020, 05:13:27 AM »
Dear Mike,

You do realize, don't you, that we aren't even in the "second wave," yet?

Regardless, what's the Covid-19 morbidity rate in the U.S.?

--  MWT  ;)

PS  Personal question: Do you wear a mask when you're shopping, etc?  (I do.)

Bumped for Mike T. Griffith

--  MWT  ;)