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Author Topic: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?  (Read 9431 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2020, 05:21:34 PM »
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And fame....

Which of course Aynesworth is completely immune to...

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Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2020, 05:21:34 PM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2020, 05:24:34 PM »
Guys...You are dissing someones hero here.
Case in point---  https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2325.0.html
The knowledge possessed by the world's greatest 'journalist' was so vast I can't help but wonder why he wasn't ever called to testify? 

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2020, 05:46:20 PM »
We don't know Oswald's intended destination because he encountered Tippit.  His destination wasn't 10th/Patton.

Do you ever think before your write something as stupid as this? If you don't know what Oswald's intended destination was, you also do not know that it wasn't 10th/Patton!

Oswald was in flight after assassinating the president.  He was evading arrest. 

Was he? By running (because walking wouldn't have gotten him there on time to kill Tippit) to a go-nowhere residential location as 10th/Patton where he would stand out like a sore thumb, when he had ample opportunities to get out of town fast on public transport. That makes sense to you?

Only Oswald would know where he was heading.

True, so why do you claim to know that his destination wasn't 10th/Patton?

That's idiot logic even for you.  Do you think the Boston bombers destination was a boat in someone's backyard because that happened to be where he ended up?  Not even the most fringe kook that ever posted on this forum has suggested Oswald's destination was 10th/Patton.  Comedy gold.  Regardless, your claim contains the false premise that Oswald could not have gotten there in time by walking.  That is false.  Did you ever see Gary Mack's reenactment that involved actually doing it rather than making stuff up to suit a desired outcome? 

The entire walk was timed without any stops or slowdowns, and the
total time was the same as what several other conspiracy researchers
have found over the years. The shortest route gave Oswald plenty of
time,
whereas the longest route was too long. The other one or two
routes would have resulted in intermediate times.

If you doubt me, walk it yourself or ask someone else to do it! :)

Gary Mack

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Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2020, 05:46:20 PM »


Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2020, 05:53:41 PM »
Guys...You are dissing someones hero here.
Case in point---  https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2325.0.html
The knowledge possessed by the world's greatest 'journalist' was so vast I can't help but wonder why he wasn't ever called to testify?

I'll second that, because the Editor, Osborne Elliott, who dispatched Aynesworth to interfere with Garrison in NOLA and was satisfied with Aynesworth's work,
just happened to be the brother-in-law pf Allen Dulles's cousin, Eleanor Lansing Thomas.

And Eleanor's brother just happened to be accused by Priscilla, in her HSCA testimony in 1978, of concealing the suicide of Priscilla's father in 1969, and this served as a major excuse Priscilla gave to the HSCA for keeping poor Marina's mouth shut until 1978 !

Guys...You are dissing someones hero here.
Case in point---  https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2325.0.html
The knowledge possessed by the world's greatest 'journalist' was so vast I can't help but wonder why he wasn't ever called to testify?

I'll second that, because the Editor, Osborne Elliott, who dispatched Aynesworth to interfere with Garrison in NOLA and was satisfied with Aynesworth's work,
just happened to be the brother-in-law pf Allen Dulles's cousin, Eleanor Lansing Thomas.

And Eleanor's brother just happened to be accused by Priscilla, in her HSCA testimony in 1978, of concealing the suicide of Priscilla's father in 1969, and this served as a major excuse Priscilla gave to the HSCA for keeping poor Marina's mouth shut until 1978 !

It’s a lame attempt to discredit Hugh Aynesworth, just because he says some things that Jerry disagrees with.

Charles, you're approach is black, or white. Facts indicate it is
Quote
characterized by subtle shades of meaning or expression.
"Lowe's work has gradually grown more nuanced"
Why not marvel at the details instead of "nothing to see here, Jerry is mistaken, move along, readers...."

Quote
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/19103-did-the-cia-sheep-dip-and-orchestrate-the-tale-of-the-patsy-lee-harvey-oswald/

Tom Scully Posted May 17, 2012
Clover Todd Dulles Wed to Jens H. Jebsen In Chaped of Fifth..
https://www.nytimes.com/1951/04/22/archives/clover-todd-dulles-wed-to-jens-h-jebsen-in-chaped-of-fifth-avenue.html
New York Times - Apr 22, 1951
In a candlelit garden setting of white dogwood and smilax in the chapel of the Fifth Avenue Presbyterian Church yesterday noon, Miss Clover Todd Dulles,..


Quote
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/9636-allen-w-dulles/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-252435
......
Quote
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/06/nyregion/06elliott.html?fta=y
Eleanor Thomas Elliott, Barnard Figure, Dies at 80
By THE NEW YORK TIMESDEC. 6, 2006
....The cause was injuries from a car accident, said her brother-in-law, Osborn Elliott, the former editor of Newsweek and a former dean of the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism.....

......Cousin Eleanor had a brother, cousin James Augustus Thomas, Jr.:....

Quote
https://archive.is/esTuB#selection-389.0-399.32
Secrets of Newsweek's Osborn Elliott & Hugh Aynesworth, & of Priscilla Johnson
« on: January 31, 2013, 02:24:10 PM »

Quote
The news media--a service and a force - Page 26
http://books.google.com/books?id=GSobAQAAIAAJ
Howard Kingsbury Smith, Osborn Elliott, A. Merriman Smith - 1970
.....Let me cite a few other instances of the reporter's involvement in the events he is covering. Take last
summer in Chicago, for example. There is no question in my mind that certain police officers
deliberately assaulted members of the press who were covering events surrounding the convention— and
certainly there was no such question in the minds of eight Newsweek men who were battered by the police
while wearing clear identification as working reporters and photographers. (This was something,
incidentally, that could not be said for the constabulary's own methods of identifying itself; many of
the police officers removed their badges in the parade to make sure they could not be identified.) So
what should the press' reaction have been? In my view, its duty was to report what happened as
dispassionately as possible and later be willing to testify against whichever offending officers could
be identified. This is what our own men did. Or take the coverage of a more recent event—the trial of
Clay Shaw in New Orleans on charges that he conspired in the assassination of the late President
Kennedy. As it happened, Newsweek's chief reporter on the trial had spent literally thousands of man-
hours investigating the assassination itself and was considered a leading authority on the events that
followed. He had witnessed the assassination from close to the Texas School Book Depository and joined
the chase for Lee Harvey Oswald. He interviewed several of the witnesses at the Tippitt murder scene
and was in the Texas Theatre watching when Oswald was apprehended. He was just a few feet from Jack
Ruby when he shot Oswald, and he later interviewed Oswald's widow several times. It was he who
uncovered Oswald's Russian diary in mid-1964.
He covered the entire Ruby trial and was the only
reporter inside at Ruby's funeral. In short, quite an expert— and someone that District Attorney Jim
Garrison was anxious to enlist on his side.
But this reporter soon became convinced that Garrison had
no case whatsoever, and he made it his business to publicize this fact. The result was one of the first
critical stories published about Garrison— which was followed by a series of intimidating telephone
calls threatening the reporter's life. In Garrison's mind, this reporter and Newsweek had in effect
become co-defendants, and more than 1,100 prospective jurors were asked if they had read Newsweek's
critical story. We left this man on the story because we believed he was the best qualified to cover
it. And to this day, I am satisfied that he did so fairly and thoroughly. But I would not suggest for a
minute that subjectivity had not been involved— once again, in my view, in the interest of the truth
.
Some of you may recall that our final story on Clay's acquittal was given only nine lines in the
magazine. It ran under the headline "Fact and Opinion," and in its entirety it read as follows:
"Acquitted: By a jury in New Orleans, exactly two years to the day after his arrest on charges of
conspiracy to murder John F. Kennedy, retired Louisiana businessman Clay L. Shaw, 55. Convicted: By a
case that collapsed at every seam, District Attorney Jim Garrison, 47, of incompetence and
irresponsibility as a public official." You can't get much more subjective than that or, in my opinion,
much closer to the truth. There are much larger issues, of course, that involve subjectivity in
journalism— indeed the very largest issues of the day— and for a publication such as my own, which has
no editorial page, they can pose a problem. The news magazines ....
......
https://archive.is/o/esTuB/www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95330&relPageId=42

........

Description of 1969 death of Priscilla's father: (Allen Dulles's cousin was last to see him alive...)


Quote
http://www.ampltd.co.uk/digital_guides/china_through_western_eyes_manuscript/publishers%20note.aspx
....James Augustus Thomas was born in Lawsonville, Rockingham County, North Carolina, on 6 March 1862. He was the son of Henry Evans Thomas and Cornelia Carolina (Jones) Thomas. He attended the Eastman National Business College, Poughkeepsie, New York, and graduated in 1881. He married Anna, daughter of William Branson of Durham, North Carolina, on 27 April 1918. Unfortunately she died in November 1918. J A Thomas remarried on 21 November 1922 to Dorothy Quincy Hancock, daughter of Sheridan Pitt Read. They had two children: James Augustus Thomas jr and Eleanor Lansing Thomas....

Aynesworth was assigned to "cover" the Garrison investigation and prosecution of Clay Shaw in 1967 by Osborne Elliott. Elliott's brother was married to Eleanor Lansing Thomas, Allen and Foster Dulles's cousin, who happened to be the maid of honor in Allen's daughter Clover's wedding.

This Dulles cousin, Eleanor Lansing Thomas Osborne, sister-in-law of Ayneswprth's boss, happened to have a brother, James A. Thomas, Jr., who Priscilla testified to HSCA, instigated, managed, or participated in a "concealed suicide," of Priscilla's father, Stuart Holmes Johnson, in 1969. Priscilla testified to HSCA that this event upset her to the degree she was using it as the primary excuse for the delay in delivering her book, (from 1969 to 1977) "Marina & Lee," to her extremely patient Harper's editor, Marion S. Wyeth. Wyeth happened to be in the wedding party of a close friend of DeMohrenschildt's CIA shadow, Tom Devine.
Wyeth happened to live with his parents just two doors down, on a dead end street, from DeMohrenschildt's wife's father, Philip Sharples. Wyeth's father, an architect, designed both the home of Sharples and of Tom Devine's "best friend in Rochester," Joseph F Dryer, Jr. (before Dryer purchased the house). Devine's best man at his 1973 Jupiter Island wedding was William B. Macomber, Jr., also of Rochester, who, along with his wife, Phyliss Bernau, were two of Foster Dulles's closest Dept. of State, aids. Macomber was also best man in the 1946 wedding of Bush's sister, Nancy.

Quote
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/2544-edwin-walker/page/20/?tab=comments#comment-271096
Tom Scully  Posted April 7, 2013.....
.......And an explanation of the following photo of a small section of West Palm Beach, FL. DeMohrenschildst's former
wife, Didi Sharples and her next husband bought the Ocean Front estate of Ailsa Mellon Bruce, labeled with a "B" in
this photo. Up above, the lot just below the "W" in Woodbridge Rd., was the residence from 1940 to 1983 of the architect father
of Priscilla Johnson's second Harper editor, the very patient and understanding Marion S. Wyeth, Jr. Two doors down
from Wyeth, Sr. at the end of very end of Woodbridge Rd. on the left, was the longtime residence of DIdi Sharples' parents,
the Philip Sharples.
" Mrs. Philip Sharples, 185 Woodbridge Rd. Georgian brick house. Beautifully landscaped to lake, charming
rock and water garden beside entrance court "




Quote
Phyllis Dorothy Bernau Macomber (1924-2014) - Find A Grave ...
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/170276313/phyllis-dorothy-macomber
Born in 19 Jul 1924 and died in 3 Sep 2014 Nantucket, Massachusetts Phyllis Dorothy Bernau Macomber.

Library - FOIA | CIA FOIA (foia.cia.gov)
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/search/site/phyllis?page=10
464 items - and his wife, Phyllis, live. at 2235 Carlyle Court, White Bear Lake, with their ... Jordan from Agency, and then passed into intelligence Phyllis Bernau, ...

Quote
https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/Stock-Images/Rights-Managed/MEV-10418559


Stock Photo - Eleanor Lansing Thomas, social secretary to Mr John Foster Dulles, US Secretary of State in 1954 pictured going through press cuttings.

Quote
http://jfkforum.com/2017/10/01/are-we-there-yet/
OCTOBER 1, 2017 BY ADMIN
Are we there yet? Part I

Marina Oswald Porter: To Forget Is Not To Forgive – The Washington …
......
Devine went on to attend M.I.T. and, just a few months later was residing in the Sigma Chi fraternity house with Garry Coit and fifteen other fraternity mates.

Peter Dryer, another of the not forgotten ten on Devine’s list in the yearbook, was the brother of Joseph F. Dryer, Jr., who met DeMohrenschildt in separate NYC meeting, but on the very same day as Devine, on 25 April, 1963 !

Peter Dryer partnered with brother Joseph in Cuba and then in Guatemala and was also a member of Wyeth’s 1948 Princeton class.



In January, 1964, Garry Coit happened to become the CIA contact of Priscilla Johnson….

Marion Sims “Buz” Wyeth had become by 1949, close enough to Devine’s former classmate to invite Hawley Ward to be an usher in his wedding party.:
......
Priscilla is asked by HSCA counsel in Feb., 1978, about her Harper editor’s (Buz Wyeth) reaction to the 12 year delay of her book…. (Marion “Buzz” Wyeth worked for Harper & Row since 1956) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95330#relPageId=43 Next Page:
...."and my editor since has been M.S. Wyeth  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95330#relPageId=44&tab=page ....

Aynesworth, to my knowledge, reported none of the above relevant and interesting coincidences, despite being on the scene to "catch wind," of at least some of them. I came along, 40+ years later, equipped only with curiousity, an internet connection, and a keyboard.

You can't make this stuff up, at least I cannot. I wouldn't know where to even begin.
Charles, you're approach is black, or white. Facts indicate it is Why not marvel at the details instead of "nothing to see here, Jerry is mistaken, move along, readers...."


......Cousin Eleanor had a brother, cousin James Augustus Thomas, Jr.:....
......
https://archive.is/o/esTuB/www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95330&relPageId=42

........


Description of 1969 death of Priscilla's father: (Allen Dulles's cousin was last to see him alive...)


Aynesworth was assigned to "cover" the Garrison investigation and prosecution of Clay Shaw in 1967 by Osborne Elliott. Elliott's brother was married to Eleanor Lansing Thomas, Allen and Foster Dulles's cousin, who happened to be the maid of honor in Allen's daughter Clover's wedding.

This Dulles cousin, Eleanor Lansing Thomas Osborne, sister-in-law of Ayneswprth's boss, happened to have a brother, James A. Thomas, Jr., who Priscilla testified to HSCA, instigated, managed, or participated in a "concealed suicide," of Priscilla's father, Stuart Holmes Johnson, in 1969. Priscilla testified to HSCA that this event upset her to the degree she was using it as the primary excuse for the delay in delivering her book, (from 1969 to 1977) "Marina & Lee," to her extremely patient Harper's editor, Marion S. Wyeth. Wyeth happened to be in the wedding party of a close friend of DeMohrenschildt's CIA shadow, Tom Devine.
Wyeth happened to live with his parents just two doors down, on a dead end street, from DeMohrenschildt's wife's father, Philip Sharples. Wyeth's father, an architect, designed both the home of Sharples and of Tom Devine's "best friend in Rochester," Joseph F Dryer, Jr. (before Dryer purchased the house). Devine's best man at his 1973 Jupiter Island wedding was William B. Macomber, Jr., also of Rochester, who, along with his wife, Phyliss Bernau, were two of Foster Dulles's closest Dept. of State, aids. Macomber was also best man in the 1946 wedding of Bush's sister, Nancy.



Aynesworth, to my knowledge, reported none of the above relevant and interesting coincidences, despite being on the scene to "catch wind," of at least some of them. I came along, 40+ years later, equipped only with curiousity, an internet connection, and a keyboard.

You can't make this stuff up, at least I cannot. I wouldn't know where to even begin.
[/quote]
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 05:57:40 PM by Tom Scully »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2020, 06:12:29 PM »

I know what she saw because that's what she told the WC. She testified she saw Oswald enter the roominghouse and thought he was in a hurry;


It appears that you "know" what she saw because of her unreliable testimony. Alrighty then....  ::)


Stop being a hypocrite. You rely on what she allegedly told Aynesworth. I'm not the one who is trying to negate her testimony by relying on a 35 year old memory!

Quote

Since there is only your speculation and no physical evidence there is nothing that Aynesworth's report agrees with. It doesn't even agree with what Roberts told the WC under oath.

You can ignore the evidence if you wish. But that doesn't make it go away. Unless you are Walt...

I am not ignoring evidence. I am ignoring stuff that you make up and call evidence

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Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2020, 06:12:29 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2020, 06:12:50 PM »
What's he's pointing out is that you are preferring Aynesworth's 35-year-old recollection of what Roberts allegedly told him to what Roberts herself directly testified to 4 months after the fact.  Apparently because it better fits your desired result.


Apparently because it better fits your desired result.


Apparently because it better fits your desired result the evidence. As I have already pointed out.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2020, 06:29:45 PM »
Stop being a hypocrite. You rely on what she allegedly told Aynesworth. I'm not the one who is trying to negate her testimony by relying on a 35 year old memory!

I am not ignoring evidence. I am ignoring stuff that you make up and call evidence


I said that I have doubts...

You said that you knew what she saw. That is impossible. See the difference?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2020, 06:29:45 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Did Oswald run (rather than walk) to 10th and Patton?
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2020, 06:34:15 PM »
Not even the most fringe kook that ever posted on this forum has suggested Oswald's destination was 10th/Patton.

Martin didn't suggest Oswald's destination was 10th/Patton, Strawman "Smith".

Quote
Did you ever see Gary Mack's reenactment that involved actually doing it rather than making stuff up to suit a desired outcome? 

Yes.  It involved making stuff up to suit a desired outcome.  To wit:

- That Tippit was shot 15 minutes after Roberts said Oswald left the boarding house
- That Oswald immediately started walking south on Beckley, even though Roberts said that she saw him standing at the bus stop north of the boarding house
- That the witness who reported seeing the man walking west on 10th was wrong
- That Oswald was "walking briskly"
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 06:38:01 PM by John Iacoletti »