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Author Topic: Am I the only CT here who can meet the LN's more than half way? If not ...  (Read 40202 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Interesting that a number of CTers here fight with each other constantly

Given the large number of contradictory conspiracies still oozing out of the CTroll-farms, it's no wonder these characters can't boil this all down to one plausible, coherent, counter-narrative. Or narrow down the 48 (or so) shooters claimed in conspiracy-authored books.

Bonged indeed.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 06:13:49 PM by Bill Chapman »

JFK Assassination Forum


Offline John Iacoletti

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Interesting that a number of CTers here fight with each other constantly

Not particularly interesting.  You guys rely on faith rather than evidence, march in lock-step, and never deviate from your holy book.  Since when is it a virtue to jump off the cliff with the other lemmings?

Offline Zeon Wasinsky

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I can agree with LNs that Oswald can get to the 2nd floor lunchroom in 75 seconds post shots.

I have difficulity gettiing Oswald past Dorothy Garner on the 4th floor however. I tried to work it out that maybe Mrs Garners statement  of following Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles "almost immediately" and "right behind" them, when A&S left the 4th floor office by approx 10 sec posts shots, was a misperception of an actual 45 seconds delay, thus allowing Oswald to have the required 50 sec post shot to reach 4th floor staircase. Its possible, but its seems to me somewhat less probable than just a 15 second pause for Garner, which she must have done, if she didn't actually see A&S as she related to Barry Ernest, author of "The Girl on the Stairs".Garner heard noise on the staircase which she attributes must be from A&S. That leaves really only 2 possibilities:

A. Garner did in fact exit the 4th floor office within 15 seconds after Adams and Styles did, and thus was able to still hear them on the staircase. That means Garner exited office 25 sec post shots,

B. Garner exited 53 seconds post shots, or 43 seconds after Adams and Styles did, thus allowing enough time for Oswald or other shooter at SE 6th floor window to get to the 4th floor staircase by 50 sec post shot, and 3 second more required to go half way down that stair and not be in LOS of Garner.

Which one is the more probable, in relation to Garners statement, imo, its A. But its not a certainty, because people can have different perceptions of time, during stressful situations, so I cannot entirely rule out Garner had a time lapse experience longer than what she actually stated.

Ive got the problem with Arnold Rowlands sighting of gunman at SW window at 12:15  time stamp from the TSBD roof clock which Rowland was able to see, conflicting with Carolyn Arnolds  in an interview in 1978 with Anthony Summers:  She went into the 2nd floor lunchroom at 12:15, and saw Oswald there, eating his lunch.

Ive considered there could be a time discrepency of +/- 3 minutes, but since there was a clock in the 2nd floor lunchroom, it seems to me that its likely that Carolyn Arnold would have seen the time easily just glancing at it. IF that clock was 2:13, or 2:18, would not Arnold notice and have stated either "It was slightly before 12:15, or "it was little after 12:15", instead of "It was 12:15"?

Was the clock in the 2nd floor lunchroom out of sync with the TSBD roof clock. Possibly, but would not the supervisor Roy Truly and the 2nd floor office supervisor, Mrs Reid prefer to have their clocks in sync with their very own "official time" roof clock that rest of Dealey Plaza is using to sync their clocks?

 discarding the clock on the wall, and an early 12:13 meeting, then the only other viable possibility (or Carolyn Arnold totally confused) is a 12:18 meeting, which raises other problems:

A. Oswald holds an MC rifle, w/long wooden stock,scope barely visible even from 10 ft away, as seen in BYP, in such a way to make it appear to Arnold Rowland to be 30.06 hunting rilfe with a distinctly large scope and a short wooden stock, ( rifle Rowland was familiar with.) Does the MC rifle look anywhere near enough similar to a 30.06 hunting rifle, to be mistaken for one by someone who is familiar with such rifle? And could a person standing over 100 yards away misperceive the MC scope as a large scope, given the way the shooter was describe holding the rifle, with the scope on opposite side of the wooden stock in relation to Rowlands line of sight?

B. Oswald retreated from the SW window, probably due to presence of Bonnie Ray Williams at the SE 6th floor window. (this i can agree is plausible)

C. Oswald left the 6th floor, dropped his rifle in some boxes along that west aisle, and then he went down 4 floors to eat his lunch in the 2nd floor lunchroom. This i have to wonder, if it makes any sense, because, he has no idea when the JFK motorcade will arrive, and he has no idea if BRW leaves the 6th floor. The more logical move, would be, just go sit on the 7th floor staircase and wait and listen, to see if BRW is going to leave the 6th floor.

D. Oswald must return to the 6th floor and not before 12:25, unless Arnold Rowland is mistaken on his timeing about the black man not gone from window until after 12:25. Why does Oswald wait this late to return, and what reason to have altered his original plan to shoot from the SW window, which afforded him a much shorter distance to the staircase and retreating down stairs? Why make his original plan much more difficult, not only adding more travel time, but also making his SN cramped and more difficult position to have to shoot from?


Finally, I have yet to resolve the Mrs Reid encounter with Oswald at the supposed stop watch time by Belin of 2 minutes post shots.

If Mrs Reid saw Oswald entering the rear office door of 2nd floor office at 2 min post shots, and Oswald walked slowly as she suggests, Oswald would not have exited the front office door until 2 min 20 sec.

Since Oswald was only in a T shirt as Reid described,, Oswald would have had to return to the lunchroom using the 80 ft hallway and about 15 more ft into lunchroom to get his brown shirt, and also get his jacket from somewhere. That would have Oswald not exiting lunchroom until approx. 2 min 50 sec. How could Oswald have gotten out the building then? the rear door is being watched from 1 min post shots, via the Adams encounter with plainclothes officer approx. 65 sec. The front door is guarded as early as 2 min 30 sec by DPD officer Barnett. A reporter, Peirce Allman, goes into TSBD before Barnett is guarding entrance, runs into Oswald, as early as 2 min 30 sec.

Barring that Peirce Allman may have met someone else instead, Oswald still cannot get to the front lobby entrance sooner than 3 minutes post shots, so could not have gotten past Barnnett. Nor could he go out the read door, unless the plainsclothes officers had moved since 65 sec post shot encounter with V.Adams and S.Styles exiting rear door.

There is a West side rollup door possibly unguarded at 3 minutes 20 seconds perhaps, but Idk for certain about this.

JFK Assassination Forum


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Not particularly interesting.  You guys rely on faith rather than evidence, march in lock-step, and never deviate from your holy book.  Since when is it a virtue to jump off the cliff with the other lemmings?

Bravo!.....  You're starting to show that you've learned a wee bit of what I've taught you. ;D

Offline Bill Chapman

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Bravo!.....  You're starting to show that you've learned a wee bit of what I've taught you. ;D

Saint Waldo the Fabricator

JFK Assassination Forum


Offline Bill Chapman

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Not particularly interesting.  You guys rely on faith rather than evidence, march in lock-step, and never deviate from your holy book.  Since when is it a virtue to jump off the cliff with the other lemmings?

'virtue'

Saint John the Virtuous. Apparently.

And yet you're one of the characters misrepresenting the information by nitpicking, twisting, and splitting hairs to an alarmingly deranged, ultimately smothering* standard of proof.

And for the sake of myself and fellow lemmings everywhere, I hope that you and your fellow Reptilians don't develop a taste for lemming soup anytime soon.


*Iacoletti+Caprio+Weidmann Inc.
  >>>The Smothers Brothers
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 05:33:51 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Jack Trojan

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What is your best Oswald was involved, theory?
Btw ... that's ... INVOLVED.

Not that he was duped and Not that he was really there to protect the President.
INVOLVED.

Let the sound of crickets begin.


https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337461/m1/1/?q=lee%20harvey%20oswald%20curtain%20rods

Dan, you are obviously a closet LNer but the half way point is for you to accept that this was a conspiracy and LHO was NOT a lone nut. Once you accept this was a conspiracy, which most of the world believes, then speculate away. But don't expect ANY of the LNers to buy into it because they are 100% committed to the WC LN hypothesis which has been proven flawed and untenable. The LNer position is fringe and they have to stick to it come hell or high water. Either there was a conspiracy or there wasn't. So what is YOUR half way point?

JFK Assassination Forum


Offline Dan DAlimonte

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Dan, you are obviously a closet LNer but the half way point is for you to accept that this was a conspiracy and LHO was NOT a lone nut. Once you accept this was a conspiracy, which most of the world believes, then speculate away. But don't expect ANY of the LNers to buy into it because they are 100% committed to the WC LN hypothesis which has been proven flawed and untenable. The LNer position is fringe and they have to stick to it come hell or high water. Either there was a conspiracy or there wasn't. So what is YOUR half way point?

Hey, Jack.  You're absolutely correct,  I'm as close to being an LN as a person can be, because I can't believe they can be wrong about - EVERYTHING and many CT's here, as you well know, believe exactly that.  To me, the truth lies in the middle and my half way point is - he was involved. If there's any patsy to him, it's, he had to take the blame for it all. and if that happened, there had to be a damn good reason to
make it appear as such.   

Do you know how many things would fit in perfectly if he was involved with a team of two to three people?  He had his own escape route and his job was to draw the police to him which didn't happen because of that inadvertent direction from Curry to search the railroad yard first.  The second group was escaping in a station wagon and I still maintain that ALL assassins were captured that day.  Oswald on his own and that station wagon captured at Redbird airfield.  That last capture mentioned took place within twenty minutes from the event and these  - persons - as stated in the Radio Traffic Relays who were brought to the downtown jail were quickly identified as being domestic agents a/o pro or anti Castro agents and from
there on in, all roads had to lead back to Oswald acting alone.  My opinion - yes - but whatever evidence
that I do have - scant as it is - does seem to fit.   I'll list it again if you want.

Anyway, thanks for responding.  Btw - you're right again, I never did think any LN would move towards the middle, if you will, but a CT could come to the same conclusion as I stated that the LN's can't be wrong
about everything.  Oswald was no saint in my book.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 11:55:40 PM by Dan DAlimonte »