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Author Topic: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?  (Read 9883 times)

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #300 on: April 09, 2020, 05:59:12 AM »
When did I ever way Weitzman pretended anything?

I never said you claimed anything, I asked you a question. Why do you think Weitzman pretended he knew the rifle was a Mauser, conjured up specific details about it, at a glance, and swear by it?

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #301 on: April 09, 2020, 06:06:14 AM »
I never said you claimed anything, I asked you a question. Why do you think Weitzman pretended he knew the rifle was a Mauser, conjured up specific details about it, at a glance, and swear by it?
Your question presupposes that either I've said Weitzman pretended whatever, or that I think that Weitzman pretended whatever. Both presumptions are the result of your own cognitive disfunctions.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #302 on: April 09, 2020, 07:52:48 AM »
How did Weitzman know how many rounds it held? Was it:
a) Once he decided it was a Mauser, said it was 5 because Mausers hold 5 rounds?
b) happened to be carrying several rounds of Mauser ammo, and started loading them into the weapon just to see how many fit?
c) picked up the rifle and unloaded five rounds from the magazine?

If you want to argue b) or c), you'd better have a damn good reason to claim either.

Seriously, Mitch? You have to load/unload a clip to see how many bullets it holds?

You donít have to have a damn good reason to argue A? Weitzman never said he was just assuming that the rifle had a 5 shot clip. I thought you claimed he didnít know anything about rifles.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #303 on: April 09, 2020, 07:53:59 AM »
James Young only said that the bullet was delivered to Bethesda by a corpsman in an envelope. He didn't say that it was recovered or discovered by the corpsman.

Huh? What does that have to do with the Mauser?

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #304 on: April 09, 2020, 04:06:07 PM »
What about the 5-shot clip?

Please show me where there is any mention of the number of cartridges the rifle could hold PRIOR to Weitzman's late Friday afternoon interview with FBI agent Sawyer.

Show me where anybody said anything about the cartridge capacity of the rifle prior to Sawyers interview of Seymour Weitzman.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #305 on: April 09, 2020, 04:34:44 PM »
Please show me where there is any mention of the number of cartridges the rifle could hold PRIOR to Weitzman's late Friday afternoon interview with FBI agent Sawyer.

It's Sayers.  Please show me anything that says this interview took place "late Friday afternoon".

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #306 on: April 09, 2020, 05:19:59 PM »
It's Sayers.  Please show me anything that says this interview took place "late Friday afternoon".

John, I asked:....Please show me where there is any mention of the number of cartridges the rifle could hold PRIOR to Weitzman's late Friday afternoon interview with FBI agent Sawyer.    So WHY would you reply ....It's Sayers.   Do you know what "prior " means?

Please show me anything that says this interview took place "late Friday afternoon".

Mr. WEITZMAN - That is correct, Boone and I, and as he was looking over the rear section of the building, I would say the northwest corner, I was on the floor looking under the flat at the same time he was looking on the top side and we saw the gun, I would say, simultaneously and I said, "There it is" and he started hollering, "We got it." It was covered with boxes. It was well protected as far as the naked eye because I would venture to say eight or nine of us stumbled over that gun a couple times before we thoroughly searched the building.
Mr. BALL - Did you touch it?
Mr. WEITZMAN - No, sir; we made a man-tight barricade until the crime lab came up and removed the gun itself.
Mr. BALL - The crime lab from the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Lieutenant Day and Captain Fritz?
Mr. WEITZMAN - I'm not sure what the lieutenant's name was, but I remember Captain Fritz.
Mr. BALL - Did you see Captain Fritz remove anything from the gun?
Mr. WEITZMAN - No, sir; I did not.
Mr. BALL - What did you do after that?
Mr. WEITZMAN - After that, I returned to my office and I was called down to the city that afternoon later to make a statement on what I had seen.

  After Weitzman saw Fritz eject the live "6.5mm carc" cartridge from the CARCANO at about 2:00pm in the TSBD , he returned to his office and I was called down to the city later that afternoon  to make a statement  ( for FBI agent A1bert Sawyers ) on what I had seen.  LATER THAT AFTERNOON.... We know that Weitzman left the TSBD somewhere around 2:15 pm ...so LATER that afternoon would probably be at least a couple of hours after he left the TSBD.

Weitzman could also have said :  "At that interview I was  handed a 7.65 Mauser and asked to describe it, which I did."   I don't know where this 7.65 Mauser came from or why I was asked to describe it"   But Captain Fritz came and took the Mauser from me and I saw him eject a cartridge from the rifle. "   



Mr. BALL - Would you mind making a mark there with a pen? That is on F. Draw on Exhibit F, draw an arrow. The arrow in ink on F shows the location?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Down on the floor.
Mr. BALL - Shows the location of the gun on the floor?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes.


Mr. BALL - In the statement that you made to the Dallas Police Department that afternoon, you referred to the rifle as a 7.65 Mauser bolt action?
Mr. WEITZMAN - In a glance, that's what it looked like.


Weitzman has to be referring to the "GLANCE" that he got of the carcano at the TSBD when Detective Day picked the carcano UP OFF THE FLOOR.

Weitzman can't be referring to the interview by Sawyer in the above reply, because the detailed description in Sawyer's report reveals that he most certainly got far more than a "GLANCE" at the rifle that Captain Fritz took from him at the police station.

Mr. BALL - That's what it looked like did you say that or someone else say that?
Mr. WEITZMAN - No; I said that. I thought it was one.

When he was at the TSBD

Mr. BALL - Are you fairly familiar with rifles?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Fairly familiar because I was in the sporting goods business awhile.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #307 on: April 09, 2020, 05:44:24 PM »
John, I asked:....Please show me where there is any mention of the number of cartridges the rifle could hold PRIOR to Weitzman's late Friday afternoon interview with FBI agent Sawyer.    So WHY would you reply ....It's Sayers.

Because for some reason, you keep calling him "Sawyer".

Sayers' report says November 23.

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #308 on: April 09, 2020, 05:56:34 PM »
The evolving FBI reports

special agent
Brian Sayers
11/23/63




special agent
Raymond M. Lester
11/24/63




special agent
Vincent E. Drain
9/10/64

« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 06:14:25 PM by Gary Craig »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #309 on: April 09, 2020, 06:02:10 PM »
Because for some reason, you keep calling him "Sawyer".

Sayers' report says November 23.

That's an insipid dodge, John......    Simply because Sayer's report is dated 11/23/63 does NOT mean the interview took place on Saturday  11/23/63.

And Weitzman himself said that he was called to the Police department later that Friday afternoon......   So he interview took place on Friday 11/22/63 and Sayer's typed up the report on Saturday  11/23/63.   

 

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