Shells, rifle, SN... Who?

[Walt Cakebread]

Deputies Boone and Weitzman find a rifle between some boxes on the 6th floor of the TSBD.

Fritz takes charge of the area.

Sheriff Decker relays orders to turn over the investigation to the City and for his men to return to the Sheriff's offices.

Boone and Weitzman return the sheriff offices where they hand write reports of their account of finding a 7.65 Mauser.

Their reports are typed up as Sworn Affidavits. They are signed by both officers and Notarized.



Mean time Alyea films Lt. Day picking up MANNLICHER CARCANO from the floor of the 6th Floor of the TSBD.

How does Alyea's film prove Boone and Weitzman found the Carcano?

The Alyea film does not prove that Weitzman and Boone found the carcano, and I never have made that claim.....I've told you repeatedly that virtually everybody who was there on the sixth floor said that Weitzman and Boone  discovered the carcano......   ( even though they didn't know what kind of rifle they had found and Weitzman speculated and made a WAG that it was a 7.65 Mauser)  So you'll need to refute every man that was there if you doubt that Weitzman and Boone found the carcano.

Weitzman and Boone didn't leave the sixth floor the instant Fritz arrived at the site....( They can be seen in photos taken of Fritz and Day examining the Carcano.)

And simply because they said the rifle was a 7.65 Mauser does NOT make it a fact.   Weitzman clearly said that he had guessed about the rifle being a Mauser, and "Much to his sorrow" he was wrong.   The rifle was NOT a Mauser.....

Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself, Gary ?

[John Iacoletti]

Weitzman and Boone didn't leave the sixth floor the instant Fritz arrived at the site....( They can be seen in photos taken of Fritz and Day examining the Carcano.)

I'd still like to see these photos.

And simply because they said the rifle was a 7.65 Mauser does NOT make it a fact.   Weitzman clearly said that he had guessed about the rifle being a Mauser, and "Much to his sorrow" he was wrong.

So what?  Brennan clearly said that he really could ID Oswald but lied to the police instead.  All that means is that they were pressured to retract their statements.

[Walt Cakebread]

I'd still like to see these photos.

So what?  Brennan clearly said that he really could ID Oswald but lied to the police instead.  All that means is that they were pressured to retract their statements.

I'd still like to see these photos.

If you haven't seen the photos you haven't been looking.

Brennan clearly said that he really could ID Oswald but lied to the police instead.

 Yes , that's true...Brennan did say that when he appeared before LBJ's Cover up committee.... He'd have been crazy to refuse to say that....He understood very well that his family could be in danger if he didn't cooperate.  ( The Cops told him that on 11/22/63 )    And Brennan was convinced that he'd better cooperate when he saw Lee Oswald lynched while surrounded by the same cops who had tried to coerce him into identifying Lee Oswald as the 175 pound man who was dressed a light khaki colored clothing ........

[John Iacoletti]

So I guess you get to decide when people who said they were wrong are telling the truth or not. Who lived longer, Craig or Weitzman?

Please post the photos taken of Fritz and Day examining the Carcano that show Weitzman and Boone in them and point out Weitzman and Boone.

[Tom Scully]

So I guess you get to decide when people who said they were wrong are telling the truth or not. Who lived longer, Craig or Weitzman?

Please post the photos taken of Fritz and Day examining the Carcano that show Weitzman and Boone in them and point out Weitzman and Boone.

John, what is your end game, or is your participation in this never ending Mauser vs MC debate, not goal oriented?

Here is an excerpt of the "leading lights" Lane and Weisberg attempting 40+ years ago, to make the argument you are.
Help me to understand why you think this is worth your time. What I read on this Lane / Weisberg page so far persuades me this pursuit is futile.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9926&relPageId=34&search=lane_and%20weisberg%20and%20mauser

Politics are described as, "the art of the possible". Contrast that description with this thread.

You, yourself hit on my argument.:

So I guess you get to decide when people who said they were wrong are telling the truth or not. Who lived longer, Craig or Weitzman?

Example, there are things that can conceivably be accomplished, vs whether or not a Mauser was actually discovered on the Sixth Floor.
I wanted to find out if Postal Safety Manager, John Martin, Jr., age 58, maker of a relevant, brief 8 mm film, had indeed returned to his birthplace to live, Minnesota.
The 1963 Dallas City directory listed his wife as Emma M Martin. I wondered if the couple was related to John T Martin of Minnesota, who filmed Edwin Walker's home and Oswald in NOLA on the same 8 mm film reel.

Recently I found a yearbook photo that is definitely of John T Martin, but so far I cannot trace him further than Weisbeg's and Schoen's face-to-face, 1968 encounter.


The Postal Safety Manager was located in a Texas grave, John Wylie Martin. Jr., 1905 - 1993.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/29225958/john-wylie-martin

John, I strongly suspect those who find the Mauser debate worth repeated discussion, are indifferent to any resolution of any incompletely understood component of JFK Assassination research. I cannot change that approach of others, but I can offer alternative pursuits and methods.

[Jack Trojan]

The Alyea film does not prove that Weitzman and Boone found the carcano, and I never have made that claim.....I've told you repeatedly that virtually everybody who was there on the sixth floor said that Weitzman and Boone  discovered the carcano......   ( even though they didn't know what kind of rifle they had found and Weitzman speculated and made a WAG that it was a 7.65 Mauser)  So you'll need to refute every man that was there if you doubt that Weitzman and Boone found the carcano.

Weitzman and Boone didn't leave the sixth floor the instant Fritz arrived at the site....( They can be seen in photos taken of Fritz and Day examining the Carcano.)

And simply because they said the rifle was a 7.65 Mauser does NOT make it a fact.   Weitzman clearly said that he had guessed about the rifle being a Mauser, and "Much to his sorrow" he was wrong.   The rifle was NOT a Mauser.....

Do you enjoy making a fool of yourself, Gary ?

Why do you act like an arrogant child when someone disagrees with you? Especially when you're FOS. No way in hell Weitzman gave such precise details on a sworn affidavit describing a Mauser, without positively identifying it. Maybe that is something you can relate to, but no one else would do that.  Instead you keep sidestepping the issue and refer to your gospel Alyea film and....testimony from EVERYONE on the 6th floor that day. I'd like to see that list, and make sure to put a check mark beside each person that wasn't a DPD conspirator.

Seems to me that Fritz told the only 2 non-conspirators, Craig and Weitzman, they could go home after Weitzman handed Fritz back the Mauser. Where was the Alyea footage of that scene? Where is the Alyea footage of the 3 hulls in a tight group near the window no more than an inch apart? Why do you think that Fritz gave Alyea free rein to film any goddamned thing he wanted? Are you that naive to assume that the Alyea film wasn't directed by Fritz? He directed all the other photography at the scene and he and Day were hamming it up in front of the cameras. Do you think they weren't in control of the narrative that all the film footage showed of them? Fritz obviously kept Alyea at bay until he wanted something filmed. You just fell for it so hard that you started calling people retarded for doubting that the film didn't show a natural sequence of events and doubting the testimony of all the conspirators and wanting to piss on the grave of the whistle blower. But then you are a Trumptard, after all.

Do you think the Medical Staff at Bethesda were mentally ill because they saw a big hole in the back of JFK's head, when the autopsy photos clearly showed a small bullet hole near the top of the head? Your problem is you believe your lying eyes. Fool.

[Mitch Todd]

Mitch Todd: It's also one rifle, a guy who doesn't know guns as well as he might like to believe, a guy who takes his cue from the guy who doesn't quite know guns that well, and a semi-pro liar who's spent years spinning a self-contradictory story.

Yes, I know that’s the excuse.

If it were just an excuse, you'd be able to marshal some cogent argument against it. But you got nothing, so you have nothing to say.

Mitch Todd: Where's the unambiguous evidence of two rifles in the depository? Who claimed that they saw two rifles in the depository? That's the kind of thing you need right now.

There isn’t unambiguous evidence of anything in this case.

The universe is full of ambiguity, what with all that quantum mechanics and Goedel and his incompleteness theorem and whatnot. But if you want to claim that Weitzman/Boone saw a different rifle than what's shown in the Alyea film, you need something independent from a statement made by a guy who admitted that he was wrong, the fool who followed him, and some dude who years later comes up with a couple of mutually-contradictory stories about the rifle. You need something like witnesses who saw both rifles. Where are they?

[Mitch Todd]

So I guess you get to decide when people who said they were wrong are telling the truth or not. Who lived longer, Craig or Weitzman?

Please post the photos taken of Fritz and Day examining the Carcano that show Weitzman and Boone in them and point out Weitzman and Boone.

Point out where Weitzman and/or Boone said that the rifle in the Alyea film is not the rifle that they saw.