Shells, rifle, SN... Who?

[Gary Craig]

"3 experienced LE officers in the room." Experienced with what, exactly? More precisely, exactly what expertise do you think they had in precisely identifying weapons?

Walt posted that a 6 year old could identify the Carcano in the grainy Alyea film by comparing it to a picture of one on the internet.

I simply pointed out that there were 3 experienced LE officers in the room, with a much better view of the rifle than Walt's 6 year old, who identified the rifle as a Mauser.

As far as experience, nothing in particular as far as weapons identification other than training/experience in evidence collection and greater familiarity of firearms than the general public.

Thank you for bringing up the subject again and giving me a chance to reiterate my point.

[Walt Cakebread]

So how long was "awhile"?

Actually, we don't need you to tell us. Weitzman already did that for us in his testimony:

"Mr. BALL - Where were you born?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Dallas, Tex.
Mr. BALL - Were you educated here in this State?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Partially here and Indiana.
Mr. BALL - How far did you go through school?
Mr. WEITZMAN - I went through college, graduated in engineering, 1945.
Mr. BALL - When did you come to Texas?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Do you mean back to Texas?
Mr. BALL - Back to Texas.
Mr. WEITZMAN - Right after the service was over and when I came out of the service.
Mr. BALL - Did you graduate from school before you went into the service?
Mr. WEITZMAN - I finished up after I received my discharge. I went back to Indiana to engineering school in South Bend and finished my degree in 1945.
Mr. BALL - What school?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Allison Division of General Motors Engineering School.
Mr. BALL - What did you do when you went to Dallas?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Went in business for myself.
Mr. BALL - What kind of business?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Dresses, garments, ladies garments.
Mr. BALL - What did you do after that?
Mr. WEITZMAN - I went on the road as district supervisor and manager for Holly's Dress Shops in New York, 115 Fifth Avenue, and I supervised 26 stores for them for approximately 15 years.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. WEITZMAN - I took over as general manager of the Lamont Corp. which is a discount operation and the headquarters, which was Galveston, Tex. We had stores in Dallas, Fort Worth, Louisiana, Phoenix and Tucson, Ariz. At the end of 1960, I closed up all the stores, retired from the discount operation and went to work for Robie Love in Dallas County, precinct 1.
Mr. BALL - You've been there ever since as deputy constable?
Mr. WEITZMAN - That's right."

So, he gets his sheepskin in 1945, then promptly goes to work supervising a chain of dress shops for 15 years. 1945 + 15 brings us up to about 1960. That's when he assumes a new position as general manager of Lamont's in Galveston. He closes up the company by the end of 1960, then assumes his position as a deputy constable. That gives him about a year, if that, to "be in the sporting goods business".  Not just firearms, but baseball bats, tennis racquets, golf clubs, and basketball hoops all mixed in there as well. And I don't get the impression that "a discount operation" would be a good description for a place that was just a sporting goods store. Weitzman's description sounds more like a discount department store chain, where the sporting goods were a subset of a much larger mix of merchandise.

Now, tell me how a year of running a flailing department store chain turned Weitzman into an expert on firearms.

Thank you for taking the time to analyze Seymour Weitzman's employment record.    I don't believe it's a critical issue, but the record does seem to cast doubt on Weitzman's claim to have been "in the sporting goods business, or having managed or run a sporting goods store.....

Weitzman's expertise isn't really very important....So there's no need to attack him...... He simply saw a bit of the rifle beneath the pallet as they waited for Detective Day and Captain Fritz to come to the site, and ventured that the rifle looked like a Mauser.  Roger Craig heard Weitzman's WAG and accepted it as if the rifle was in fact a Mauser .    Roger Craig is the problem....

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt posted that a 6 year old could identify the Carcano in the grainy Alyea film by comparing it to a picture of one on the internet.

I simply pointed out that there were 3 experienced LE officers in the room, with a much better view of the rifle than Walt's 6 year old, who identified the rifle as a Mauser.

As far as experience, nothing in particular as far as weapons identification other than training/experience in evidence collection and greater familiarity of firearms than the general public.

Thank you for bringing up the subject again and giving me a chance to reiterate my point.

Gary, You apparently are looking at a poor copy of Tom Alyea's film.....The youtube copy that I linked to is clear enough to easily identify the rifle as a Model 91 /38 Mannlicher Carcano.   (Some copies of Alyea's film are indeed very blurry....And there's a good reason that "someone" blurred the images .  Any photo or film that revealed useful information was " lost" damaged, or discredited in some manner.

 

[Gary Craig]

[Walt Cakebread]

No liar lies every time they open their mouth.   In fact the best liars know that they need to be truthful 95% of the time.   ( Intelligence agents are trained to lie only when necessary)  This news paper article of the interview of Roger Craig is a very interesting study in a lying....   Roger Craig was a liar who could lie convincingly, but he most certainly did not lie every time he made a statement..   




In the newspaper article Roger Craig says this:... quote.....  "I was also present when the rifle was found, and there' s no possible way that a man could lay that rifle between those boxes. He had to drop it in there. I'm six feet tall and I couldn't reach down and pick that rifle out without climbing on top of those boxes and getting down in em and by moving some of them to get to the rifle."  ....unquote

This observation by Roger Craig confirms what I've been posting for years.....  The rifle was not jammed between boxes of books as the official DPD in situ photos depict.   The rifle was laying on the floor at the bottom of a "cave" which was created by stacks of boxes.   Recall that Deputy Boone said that he removed a box that was forming the ceiling of the "cave" and shined his powerful flashlight down into the "cave" and he then spotted a small portion of the butt of the rifle as it lay on the floor at the bottom of the cave.   And Seymour Weitzman who had approached the same site from the east was down on the floor and shining his flashlight beneath a pallet with boxes of books stacked on it, when he spotted the rifle laying on the floor beneath the pallet.  Weitzman and Boone both saw the rifle laying on the floor... NOT jammed between the boxes of books as the fake DPD in situ photo depicts..

[Jerry Freeman]

Thank you for taking the time to analyze Seymour Weitzman's employment record.

A question was asked and answered.
Probably, most of the trolls here have never touched a rifle...they know who they are.

Mr. BALL - What branch of service were you in?
Mr. WEITZMAN - U.S. Air Force.
Mr. BALL - Did you handle rifles?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Mostly Thompson machine guns and pistols.

I understand that the rifle that was ultimately produced was more correctly called a Carcano Carbine.
This is rather than a Mannlicher Carcano [which is actually incorrect]
There was a Mauser in the building just 2 days before---- according to testimony.

[Walt Cakebread]

Study the images closely..... Does the official DPD in situ photo show the same scene as Tom Alyea's film?   All witnesses said that the rifle was not touched before Detective JC Day  picked it up by the leather sling.   We can see Detective Day performing that action in the Alyea film......  What is the position and orentation of the carcano when Detective Day reaches out and grabs the leather sling?    If the rifle had been jammed between the boxes as depicted in the official DPD in situ photo would it have been feasible for Day to have grabbed the leather sling and lifted the rifle as he is seen doing in the Alyea film??.

[Mitch Todd]

Walt posted that a 6 year old could identify the Carcano in the grainy Alyea film by comparing it to a picture of one on the internet.

I simply pointed out that there were 3 experienced LE officers in the room, with a much better view of the rifle than Walt's 6 year old, who identified the rifle as a Mauser.

As far as experience, nothing in particular as far as weapons identification other than training/experience in evidence collection and greater familiarity of firearms than the general public.

Thank you for bringing up the subject again and giving me a chance to reiterate my point.

Walt's 6 year-old is hyperbole, but he's right. Few bolt action rifle designs have a fixed magazine that projects down from the forestock. Of those, the shape of the Carcano's is unique. You can see the shape of the mag housing clearly in the Alyea film, and there's no question that the rifle seen in the film is a Carcano.