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Author Topic: Who returned LHOs library books on Oct 3rd 1963?  (Read 1028 times)

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: Who returned LHOs library books on Oct 3rd 1963?
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2020, 02:43:14 AM »
Possible. But Oswald knew well in advance that he was leaving for Mexico. It looks to me like Oswald was trying to steal these books and carry them in to Cuba never to return them. He pulled a similar episode with the rent lady by leaving and not paying the final 2 weeks rent. Then when he found out he wasn't getting in to Cuba, he was forced to arrange to have them returned. I presume he did this in case the library would track him down and issue a late-penalty.

LHO had a lot to do: Ruth Paine’s visit, getting the car packed with all of their belongings, conning the landlord into believing that he wasn’t leaving, sneaking out after dark to avoid his landlord, etc. It is easy to understand that returning the library books was probably not very high on his priority list. And that he either ran out of time and/or forgot about them. He might have even left them in the apartment and the next tenant found them and took them to the library.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Who returned LHOs library books on Oct 3rd 1963?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2020, 02:49:22 PM »
LHO could have simply taken the books to the lost and found (or security office) at the bus station in New Orleans and told them that someone else must have left them there. It could have taken the bus station personnel until 10/3/63 to get the books back to the library. There are other possible similar scenarios that could have taken place.

If you want to make up an alternate scenario, that’s fine. But that doesn’t make it “more likely”.

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: Who returned LHOs library books on Oct 3rd 1963?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2020, 11:00:48 PM »
If you want to make up an alternate scenario, that’s fine. But that doesn’t make it “more likely”.

Thanks.

I anticipated a convoluted attempt to downplay the facts.

Let's remember, the Warren Commission shows the books returned October 3rd. And shows Oswald far away starting 5 to 6 days before, as well as several days after that date.

Someone else returned those books. Who? Oswald is a "loner", "lone assassin" etc.
Could be his aunt, uncle, cousins? Or someone else.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Who returned LHOs library books on Oct 3rd 1963?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2020, 11:30:31 PM »
Thanks.

I anticipated a convoluted attempt to downplay the facts.

Let's remember, the Warren Commission shows the books returned October 3rd. And shows Oswald far away starting 5 to 6 days before, as well as several days after that date.

Someone else returned those books. Who? Oswald is a "loner", "lone assassin" etc.
Could be his aunt, uncle, cousins? Or someone else.

How does any of that prove Oswald shot Kennedy? Oops... sorry, I was just channelling CT Paranoid Central. My bad.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 11:34:22 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Who returned LHOs library books on Oct 3rd 1963?
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2020, 12:18:30 AM »
How does any of that prove Oswald shot Kennedy? Oops... sorry, I was just channelling CT Paranoid Central. My bad.
Another inestimable contribution from Chapman.
  He might have even left them in the apartment and the next tenant found them and took them to the library.
That got me to checking...
Quote
Clay Shaw trial counsel... MR. DYMOND: Q: Do you know whether Lee Harvey Oswald was living in your house up until the latter part of September, 1963?
MRS. JESSIE GARNERA: Up until between the 21st and 23rd.
Then where was he up until the 26th-27th?
Quote
Q: Did he appear to you to be a talkative person?
A: No, he was not.

Again evidence that Oswald was not likely to be chit-chatting with strangers on a bus.
Quote
Q: Mrs. Garner, after Lee Oswald left, did you have occasion to go into the apartment?
A: Well, after he left, I was sure that he was not coming back, I went in.
Q: And what was the condition of the apartment?
A: Dirty.
Q: In what respects?
A: Well, everything was broken, the icebox door was broken, the mattress was all messed up, the stove was broke, stuff like that.
Q: Was it in a generally dirty condition?
A: Well, it was clean when he got it.
Apparently...Oswald was a slob. No mention of books when cleaning up for the next tenant.

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: Who returned LHOs library books on Oct 3rd 1963?
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2020, 07:33:36 PM »
Another inestimable contribution from Chapman.That got me to checking...Then where was he up until the 26th-27th?
Again evidence that Oswald was not likely to be chit-chatting with strangers on a bus.Apparently...Oswald was a slob. No mention of books when cleaning up for the next tenant.

Maybe the books were on a high shelf in a closet or somewhere else that the landlord didn’t look. And the next tenant found them. I am not claiming that this is what happened. Only that it is a possibility. LHO was seen leaving the apartment on Tuesday evening, the 24th, by neighbor Eric Rogers. He cashed his unemployment check on Wednesday at the Winn-Dixie store near the apartment. My guess as to why the apartment was reportedly in such a wreck is that the landlord had earlier insisted that LHO take down his pro-Castro leaflets he had posted on the screen porch or vacate the apartment. If the reported trashed condition of the apartment is true, then it might have been LHO’s way of expressing his displeasure about having to take them down.

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Who returned LHOs library books on Oct 3rd 1963?
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2020, 07:51:56 PM »
"Oswald's books.  LOL."  Let's use CTer logic to travel down this important rabbit hole.  Where is the evidence to satisfy my subjective impossible standard of proof that there is a library in New Orleans, that Oswald ever visited it, that he had a library card, that he ever checked these books out, that these specific books were ever kept at the library, or that they were ever returned?  Where is the chain of custody on these books?  Did anyone check them for prints?  If Oswald's prints were found on them, that doesn't mean he ever checked these books out.  Maybe it was just a matter of chance. He could have picked them up and put them back without checking them out.  Did any eyewitness remember him checking these books out?  Did Marina remember what the covers of each book looked like and the exact date he brought them home?  As a result, it's possible this is all faked by someone for some unspecified purpose that I refuse to explain or even speculate.  I don't have the burden of proof and can just play contrarian arguing nonsense until the end of times.   

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Who returned LHOs library books on Oct 3rd 1963?
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2020, 08:08:02 PM »
"Oswald's books.  LOL."  Let's use CTer logic to travel down this important rabbit hole.  Where is the evidence to satisfy my subjective impossible standard of proof that there is a library in New Orleans, that Oswald ever visited it, that he had a library card, that he ever checked these books out, that these specific books were ever kept at the library, or that they were ever returned?  Where is the chain of custody on these books?  Did anyone check them for prints?  If Oswald's prints were found on them, that doesn't mean he ever checked these books out.  Maybe it was just a matter of chance. He could have picked them up and put them back without checking them out.  Did any eyewitness remember him checking these books out?  Did Marina remember what the covers of each book looked like and the exact date he brought them home?  As a result, it's possible this is all faked by someone for some unspecified purpose that I refuse to explain or even speculate.  I don't have the burden of proof and can just play contrarian arguing nonsense until the end of times.

So many words just to explain that you really don't have a clue who returned the books to the library and that you don't give a damn anyway.

That's not really a big surprise, but what is kinda funny is that you are now questioning information provided by the Warren Commission.

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Who returned LHOs library books on Oct 3rd 1963?
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2020, 08:33:18 PM »
So many words just to explain that you really don't have a clue who returned the books to the library and that you don't give a damn anyway.

That's not really a big surprise, but what is kinda funny is that you are now questioning information provided by the Warren Commission.

"Oswald's books.  LOL."  Where is your proof that Oswald checked them out or ever was in possession of these "books?"  Maybe they were confused from some other object made of "paper" like you claim the rifle was confused for some object made of "wood."  Where did he store them in his apartment?  Where is the eyewitness who saw him check them out?  Does Marina remember his having these specific books to the exclusion of any others?  Can she describe them in detail?  These are just the kinds of questions and claims certain kooks insist must answered in regard to the rifle and other evidence.  I guess you don't care for that line of reasoning, though, unless it fits your desired outcome.

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: Who returned LHOs library books on Oct 3rd 1963?
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2020, 09:50:20 PM »
If you want to make up an alternate scenario, that’s fine. But that doesn’t make it “more likely”.

Here is the scenario that is in the original post:

Someone then returned them to the New Orleans library on Oct 3rd (at a time when LHO was on his way to Dallas from Mexico). This has to be proof LHO was not on his own in Mexico. Presumably, whoever he was with, he gave that person his library books to return to New Orleans once LHO realized he would not be getting in to Cuba.

Here is another common scenario that happens quite often in many places:

LHO could have returned the books to another branch of the library system (one near the bus station, for example). Typically library systems shuffle books to and from branches via their own vehicles. It usually takes several days to accomplish the transfers of books due to their scheduled routes that cover the various libraries involved. If this was the case, the book would have been checked back in when it arrived back to the branch that LHO checked it out of (a few days after he returned it).

Now if you believe that the common scenarios that I have presented are just as likely as the one in which LHO was not on his own in Mexico. Then you are biased.

 

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