Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Did a mystery man collect LHOs last check in New Orleans on Sept 25 1963?  (Read 2353 times)

Offline Margaret Kelly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Advertisement
LHOs neighbour at 4907 magazine street in New Orleans, Mr Rogers, said in his WC testimony that he saw LHO run from the apartment in the evening of Sept 24th 1963 carrying two small bags and board a bus.

At face value, this would seem LHO left New Orleans at this time.

But there is a problem.

The Warren Commission calculated that Oswalds last unemployment check only arrived in LHOs post office box in New Orleans at 5am on Sept 25th. John McAdams details this calculation on this page: https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/Odio.htm  (about half-way down the page). They knew LHO had cashed this check at a local Winn-Dixie store in New Orleans between 8am and 1pm, but they did not know if it was cashed on Sept 24th or Sept 25th as the date was not recorded. As they had calculated that the check had only arrived in LHOs post office box at 5am on Sept 25th, the Warren Commission made the natural assumption that LHO must have then cashed that check at the Winn-Dixie store between 8am and 1pm on Sept 25th. They then presumed he boarded the 12:20pm bus to Houston, arriving there at 10:50pm that night.

However the cashier who cashed the check at the Winn-Dixie store, Mrs Thelma Fisher, could not remember the identity of the person who gave her the check to cash (neither could she remember if it had been cashed on Sept 24th or Sept 25th).

So this is what I’m wondering….

LHO set up his post office box in New Orleans so that mail could be delivered there to the names:
  • A.J. Hidell
  • Marina Oswald
  • Lee Harvey Oswald
In the famous Walker note in April 1963, LHO told Marina “Here is the key to the post office box.....”   If the New Orleans post office box was also accessible via a key, in theory one of Oswalds co-conspirators could have collected the check on the morning of Sept 25th 1963 from Oswalds post office box and cashed it at the Winn-Dixie store. In other words, there is no need to assume that LHO was in New Orleans on the morning of Sept 25th 1963.

This scenario would validate LHOs neighbours recollection that LHO left his apartment running in the evening of Sept 24th carrying two bags and boarded a bus. And he never saw him coming back. 

JFK Assassination Forum


Online Richard Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5079
Re: Did a mystery man collect LHOs last check in New Orleans on Sept 25 1963?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2020, 07:39:28 PM »
I can't think of any good reason for a conspirator to cash Oswald's unemployment check.  It seems more plausible that Oswald's actions - assuming the witness was correct - were the result of trying to avoid paying his outstanding rent.  He may have sneaked his bags out on Sept. 24th when he felt there was a good opportunity to avoid detection and stored them at the bus station.  He could have returned and spent the night in his apartment or slept at the bus station.  He had already been asked by his landlord if he was going to leave when they started moving out.  So they were suspicious of his intent.  Oswald had told them his wife was moving but he intended to stay on.   So he wouldn't want to get caught by his landlord carrying out his bags after his wife had vacated.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 01:10:59 AM by Richard Smith »

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3724
Re: Did a mystery man collect LHOs last check in New Orleans on Sept 25 1963?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2020, 03:07:57 AM »
 
This is from the Shaw trial testimony....
Quote
Q:[from Mr Dymond] Now, Mrs. Garner, do you know when Mrs. Oswald left the home that you had rented to her, that is, Marina Oswald?
A: I don't -- she left about the middle part of September, it was between the 21st, about the middle part of September, it was between the 21st and the 23rd.
Q: I see. Now, at the time that she left, did Lee Harvey Oswald leave too or did he stay there?
A: He did not leave right away, he left that night.
Q: Was it the same night?
A: The same night.
Q: And did you ever see him again after that?
A: No, I did not.
 
Where did Oswald stay after the 23rd? Slept in the bus station did he? Growing a beard?
Oswald slipped off w/o paying that monthly rent of $65. He did not try to avoid the rent ..he apparently did....the slacker.
BTW The Garners were not the owners of the property. The owners were not identified.
 

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Did a mystery man collect LHOs last check in New Orleans on Sept 25 1963?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2020, 03:07:57 AM »


Offline Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2335
Re: Did a mystery man collect LHOs last check in New Orleans on Sept 25 1963?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2020, 04:08:06 AM »

This is from the Shaw trial testimony.... 
Where did Oswald stay after the 23rd? Slept in the bus station did he? Growing a beard?

Might have slept in the apartment. Another neighbor apparently saw him leave the next day.

Quote
Oswald slipped off w/o paying that monthly rent of $65. He did not try to avoid the rent ..he apparently did....the slacker.

How do you know he didn't want to avoid paying the rent (he was behind about half-a-month)? He also didn't give Ruth any money towards the trip.

Quote
BTW The Garners were not the owners of the property. The owners were not identified.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 04:11:56 AM by Jerry Organ »

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3724
Re: Did a mystery man collect LHOs last check in New Orleans on Sept 25 1963?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2020, 04:39:32 AM »
Might have slept in the apartment. Another neighbor apparently saw him leave the next day.

How do you know he didn't want to avoid paying the rent (he was behind about half-a-month)? He also didn't give Ruth any money towards the trip.
that was really from this..
I can't think of any good reason for a conspirator to cash Oswald's unemployment check.  It seems more plausible that Oswald's actions - assuming the witness was correct - were the result of trying to avoid paying his outstanding rent.  He may have sneaked his bags out on Sept. 24th when he felt there was a good opportunity to avoid detection and stored them at the bus station.  He could have returned and spent the night in his apartment or slept at the bus station.  He had already been asked by his landlord if he was going to leave when they started moving out.  So they were suspicious of his intent.  Oswald had told them his wife was moving but he intended to stay on.   So he wouldn't want to get caught by his landlord carrying out his bags after his wife had vacated.
Did not just try to skip the rent...he actually did.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Did a mystery man collect LHOs last check in New Orleans on Sept 25 1963?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2020, 04:39:32 AM »


Offline Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2335
Re: Did a mystery man collect LHOs last check in New Orleans on Sept 25 1963?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2020, 04:52:33 AM »
that was really from this.. Did not just try to skip the rent...he actually did.

I see. My error. Sorry.

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1482
Re: Did a mystery man collect LHOs last check in New Orleans on Sept 25 1963?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2020, 11:25:14 PM »
LHOs neighbour at 4907 magazine street in New Orleans, Mr Rogers, said in his WC testimony that he saw LHO run from the apartment in the evening of Sept 24th 1963 carrying two small bags and board a bus.

At face value, this would seem LHO left New Orleans at this time.

But there is a problem.

The Warren Commission calculated that Oswalds last unemployment check only arrived in LHOs post office box in New Orleans at 5am on Sept 25th. John McAdams details this calculation on this page: https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/Odio.htm  (about half-way down the page). They knew LHO had cashed this check at a local Winn-Dixie store in New Orleans between 8am and 1pm, but they did not know if it was cashed on Sept 24th or Sept 25th as the date was not recorded. As they had calculated that the check had only arrived in LHOs post office box at 5am on Sept 25th, the Warren Commission made the natural assumption that LHO must have then cashed that check at the Winn-Dixie store between 8am and 1pm on Sept 25th. They then presumed he boarded the 12:20pm bus to Houston, arriving there at 10:50pm that night.

However the cashier who cashed the check at the Winn-Dixie store, Mrs Thelma Fisher, could not remember the identity of the person who gave her the check to cash (neither could she remember if it had been cashed on Sept 24th or Sept 25th).

So this is what I’m wondering….

LHO set up his post office box in New Orleans so that mail could be delivered there to the names:
  • A.J. Hidell
  • Marina Oswald
  • Lee Harvey Oswald
In the famous Walker note in April 1963, LHO told Marina “Here is the key to the post office box.....”   If the New Orleans post office box was also accessible via a key, in theory one of Oswalds co-conspirators could have collected the check on the morning of Sept 25th 1963 from Oswalds post office box and cashed it at the Winn-Dixie store. In other words, there is no need to assume that LHO was in New Orleans on the morning of Sept 25th 1963.

This scenario would validate LHOs neighbours recollection that LHO left his apartment running in the evening of Sept 24th carrying two bags and boarded a bus. And he never saw him coming back.

".....in theory one of Oswalds co-conspirators could have collected the check.." One of his "co-conspirators" for what crime/act? And why would they need top pick up/cash a $33 check?

Marina Oswald testified that she believed he told her that he stayed at his Aunt Lillian Murret's house for a day or two after staying at the apartment for one night.

Rankin: At the house where you had lived?
Marina: He stayed with his aunt. I remember something that he stayed a couple days with his aunt in New Orleans? Did I leave on the 23rd?
Rankin: Yes
Marina: I do not recall distinctly at this moment but I believe he said he spent the first night at the house where we lived, and perhaps one or two nights at Aunt Lilian's.

Murret did not mention this in her own testimony.

Marina's relevant testimony: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40&search=unemployment_check#relPageId=624&tab=page
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 02:10:08 AM by Steve M. Galbraith »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Did a mystery man collect LHOs last check in New Orleans on Sept 25 1963?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2020, 11:25:14 PM »


Offline Margaret Kelly

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: Did a mystery man collect LHOs last check in New Orleans on Sept 25 1963?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2020, 04:26:22 AM »
Marina's relevant testimony: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40&search=unemployment_check#relPageId=624&tab=page

I've been examining Marinas testimony from John McAdams website here: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/wit.htm

It doesn't cover the testimony you've linked to. How come i wonder?