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Author Topic: John Newman's "New Paradigm"  (Read 536 times)

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: John Newman's "New Paradigm"
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2020, 08:36:50 PM »
There is no "upside" to engaging this malignant, petulant, forum participant.... Consider I "set this off" as a result of posting one sentence!

This Bagley fellow, agitated, crafty crafter of opinions?

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=199814&relPageId=5

Scully,

Are you suggesting that Tennent H. Bagley, whom John Newman points out was on the fast track to becoming DCI until false-defector Nosenko started rocking CIA's boat two months after the assassination, was "agitated" when he conveyed the above information to Sam Papich right after the assassination?

That he was a "crafty crafter of (CIA/FBI) opinions"?

You sound as though brainwashed-by-Mangold-and-Wise, Kisevalter-loving Jefferson Morley has gotten to you.

Aren't you describing your "class warfare"-oriented, propagandistic self, here, Scully (but your audience, of course, is comprised of people who are already predisposed to hating the evil, evil, evil CIA, the evil, evil, evil FBI, the evil, evil, evil NSA, etc)?

Do you know anything about the former East German intelligence operative mentioned in the memo, Gurnter Schulz, aka FBI's "Tumbleweed"?

You do realize, don't you, that the NKVD got several of their agents into the OSS and the CIA (and the FBI, evidently) by letting  them be captured by the Germans during WW II, and (unsuccessfully) "turned" by, or otherwise assimilated into, the easily-duped Gehlen Organization? 

Alexandr "Sasha" Karpatzky (aka Igor Orlov) comes to mind.  Factoid: I think Bagley's thwarting / counterproductive "helper" in interviewing Nosenko in Geneva in June 1962 and in January 1964, George Kisevalter, was Golitsy's mole,"Sasha," instead.

Rhetorical question:  What led the FBI and CIA to tentatively conclude that Kostikov was "Department 13," as is mentioned in the memo?

Answer:  The KGB triple-agent who duped Hoover for fifteen years, Aleksey Kulak (aka "Fedora" -- look him up) told the FBI that "Tumbleweed's KGB handler in the U.S., Igor Brykin at the U.N., was ... gasp ... "Department 13, and "Tumbleweed," himself, told the FBI that he and Brykin had met with Kostikov in Mexico City to get instructions for a sabotage mission in the U.S.!

In other words, Hoover was fooled (yet again) by a KGB triple-agent in the FBI ("Fedora"), and Hoover, in turn, misled CIA into believing that a (poor Russian-speaking / poor English-speaking) "Oswald" impostor had been told on October 1, 1963 (over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA phone line) that he ("Oswald") had met with made-radioactive-by-now "Kostikov" on Saturday, September 28.

D'oh

--  MWT   ;)

..
Scully,
..
Aren't you describing your "class warfare"-oriented, propagandistic self, here, Scully (but your audience, of course, is comprised of people who are already predisposed to hating the evil, evil, evil CIA, the evil, evil, evil FBI, the evil, evil, evil NSA, etc)?

D'oh

--  MWT   ;)

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jul/03/bernie-sanders/bernie-sanders-target-saying-3-richest-have-much-w/


Online John Tonkovich

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Re: John Newman's "New Paradigm"
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2020, 09:12:18 PM »
What evidence is there that Fonzi's work was influenced by Joannides? What evidence is there that he committed perjury and was part of a coverup?

Yes, it was dishonest for the CIA and Joannides to not inform the committee that he was assigned to handling the DRE. But what does that have to do with Fonzi's work? He was working on the Veciana angle. And Veciana's group, Alpha 66, had nothing to do with the DRE or Joannides. These were, as I see it, two entirely different roads.

Newman's work on the alleged Veciana/Phillips relationship is pretty strong. He shows that it wasn't plausible that Phillips (as Bishop) could have traveled around Cuba in late 1950 and openly recruited assets like Veciana. Veciana claims that Bishop visited him in broad daylight at Julio Lobo's National Bank. That's just not plausible to me (Lobo was being watched by Castro's people). Castro was cracking down on opponents and Phillips had to be withdrawn in 1960 because of it. It was simply getting too dangerous from 1959 onward to operate there.

I have no interest in Veciani. Pointless, rabbit hole stuff.

Joannides covered up. Lied. End of story.

Fonzi investigated many people. Besides Veciana. Including, the CIA. The Last Investigation covers many topics. You are paining with an overly large, broad brush when you focus on Veciana, in an effort to smear Fonzi, and discredit his work. Look at Clare Booth Luce ,Joannides, all the misdirection. Why ? What were they hiding?

Again, Joannides was there to hide his, and the CIA's actions. That doesn't mean the CIA shot Kennedy. It just shows a cover-up,  in the extreme. And lawbreaking on their part.
Might want to look at Richard Helms, convicted perjurer, I believe because of his actions regarding Allende.
They're spies. They lie. And they don't respect any other authority. Especially the American people.


Offline Margaret Kelly

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Re: John Newman's "New Paradigm"
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2020, 04:21:33 PM »
Joannides covered up. Lied. End of story.

Is there any good book on George Joannides? You have "The Ghost" which Jeff Morley dedicates solely to Angelton, is there any one which covers Joannides? It seems any info on him is suggesting this and that but with no firm evidence. It would be nice to see someone lay out the facts on him.

Online John Tonkovich

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Re: John Newman's "New Paradigm"
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2020, 02:49:52 PM »
Is there any good book on George Joannides? You have "The Ghost" which Jeff Morley dedicates solely to Angelton, is there any one which covers Joannides? It seems any info on him is suggesting this and that but with no firm evidence. It would be nice to see someone lay out the facts on him.
The facts are, in 1963, Joannides was the agent handling the DRE, which was run by Carlos Bringuer - he of the New Orleans street fight (possibly staged).
In 1978, Joannides lied and withheld CIA docs that would have revealed  his and the agency's actions in 1963, and before and  after.
And the CIA is still fighting to withhold those documents.

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: John Newman's "New Paradigm"
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2020, 03:05:45 PM »
There is no "upside" to engaging this malignant, petulant, forum participant.... Consider I "set this off" as a result of posting one sentence!

Scully,

Are you suggesting that Tennent H. Bagley, whom John Newman points out was on the fast track to becoming DCI until false-defector Nosenko started rocking CIA's boat two months after the assassination, was "agitated" when he conveyed the above information to Sam Papich right after the assassination?

That he was a "crafty crafter of (CIA/FBI) opinions"?

You sound as though brainwashed-by-Mangold-and-Wise, Kisevalter-loving Jefferson Morley has gotten to you.

Aren't you describing your "class warfare"-oriented, propagandistic self, here, Scully (but your audience, of course, is comprised of people who are already predisposed to hating the evil, evil, evil CIA, the evil, evil, evil FBI, the evil, evil, evil NSA, etc)?

Do you know anything about the former East German intelligence operative mentioned in the memo, Gurnter Schulz, aka FBI's "Tumbleweed"?

You do realize, don't you, that the NKVD got several of their agents into the OSS and the CIA (and the FBI, evidently) by letting  them be captured by the Germans during WW II, and (unsuccessfully) "turned" by, or otherwise assimilated into, the easily-duped Gehlen Organization? 

Alexandr "Sasha" Karpatzky (aka Igor Orlov) comes to mind.  Factoid: I think Bagley's thwarting / counterproductive "helper" in interviewing Nosenko in Geneva in June 1962 and in January 1964, George Kisevalter, was Golitsy's mole,"Sasha," instead.

Rhetorical question:  What led the FBI and CIA to tentatively conclude that Kostikov was "Department 13," as is mentioned in the memo?

Answer:  The KGB triple-agent who duped Hoover for fifteen years, Aleksey Kulak (aka "Fedora" -- look him up) told the FBI that "Tumbleweed's KGB handler in the U.S., Igor Brykin at the U.N., was ... gasp ... "Department 13, and "Tumbleweed," himself, told the FBI that he and Brykin had met with Kostikov in Mexico City to get instructions for a sabotage mission in the U.S.!

In other words, Hoover was fooled (yet again) by a KGB triple-agent in the FBI ("Fedora"), and Hoover, in turn, misled CIA into believing that a (poor Russian-speaking / poor English-speaking) "Oswald" impostor had been told on October 1, 1963 (over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA phone line) that he ("Oswald") had met with made-radioactive-by-now "Kostikov" on Saturday, September 28.

D'oh

--  MWT   ;)


https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jul/03/bernie-sanders/bernie-sanders-target-saying-3-richest-have-much-w/


Scully,

Malignant?

Because I believe that either a self-avowed Marxist or the KGB/DGI murdered JFK?

Funny you realize that Trump is in bed with KGB-Mafia boy Putin but are unable to connect the dots as to how the KGB-encouraged anti-CIA and anti-FBI "tinfoil hat" conspiracy theories that arose out of the JFK Assassination dumbed-down and made cynical paranoiac and apathetic our body politic, ultimately enabled Putin's DNC hackers and Internet Research Agency trolls, etc, to have the deleterious effect that they did on our 2016 election.

--  MWT   ;)

PS  Haven't you admitted on these pages that you like to analyze political/social events from a "class warfare" / "class struggle" perspective?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 03:57:11 AM by Thomas Graves »

 

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