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Author Topic: The Silent Conspiracy  (Read 4200 times)

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2020, 12:18:15 AM »
As you point out, Latell doesn't believe Oswald acted on behalf of Castro or on his orders but that Castro may have known that something was going to happen in Dallas because Oswald had made threats against JFK at the Cuban consulate. But that's a pretty far reach; how would Castro even know Oswald was in Dallas that day? There's no evidence of any communications between him and Cuban officials. Where's the evidence for this connection?

In any case, we do have that interesting "exchange" of threats between JFK and Castro. Castro made his on September 27, 1963 at the Brazilian Embassy in Havana. There he told an AP reporter, Dan Harker, that assassination plots against him might backfire and "[the plotters] will not themselves be safe." Harker later explained that Castro specifically singled him out for the remarks and that it was clear that Castro's threat was against US leaders.

Harker: "I never misunderstood Castro. There was absolutely no hint that he was referring to the Cuban exiles. Spanish is my first language, as a Latin-American born in Columbia, Venezuela. That's why the AP sent me to Havana in the first place, because I was fluent in both Spanish and English.

Castro chose me for the interview because I had interviewed him two months earlier, and he was impressed with the4 accuracy of my account. After the September conversation, I stayed in Havana three more years and never once
did he complain that I had misrepresented him. In fact, all our wire transmissions were monitored by the Castro government, which had to approve the material before it was sent out.

The interview [with Castro] lasted three hours. We stood the entire time. Castro was not mad, merely colloquial."

And when Castro was asked about the above comment by the HSCA he said that his warning had nothing to do with the
exiles, but with it was a "warning that we know" about the plots, and they just might boomerang on the authors of the plots."

Then four days before the assassination JFK said this: "It is important to restate what now divides Cuba from my country and from all of the American countries. It is the fact that a small band of conspirators has stripped the Cuban people of their freedom and handed over the independence and sovereignty of the Cuban nation to forces beyond the hemisphere.

They have made Cuba a victim of foreign imperialism, an instrument of the policy of others, a weapon in an effort dictated by external powers to subver the other American Republics. This, and this alone, divides us. As long as this is true nothing is possible. Without it everything is possible. Once this barrier is removed, we will be ready and anxious to work with the Cuban people in pursuit of those progressive goals which, a few short years ago, stirred their hearts..."

So we do have as a backdrop these interesting tit-for-tat implicit threats by Castro and JFK against each other. Did Oswald read these? Was he aware of them? I think so. But did they motivate him to act in response?


But that's a pretty far reach; how would Castro even know Oswald was in Dallas that day? There's no evidence of any communications between him and Cuban officials. Where's the evidence for this connection?

Although I agree that we haven’t seen much evidence, and most likely never will; I don’t believe that it is a “far reach” to believe that Cuban intelligence agents would have been keeping track of LHO. After all, he made quite a scene when he visited the consulate in Mexico City. Latell writes that Castro was very much hands on leading the DIG and was immediately made aware of all important items. And that he would have unquestionably been made aware of the LHO visit. Therefore, Castro likely knew where LHO was and that JFK was in the motorcade in Dallas on 11/22/63. So to respond to your question, I believe that, at the very least, Aspillaga’s account of the radio antennae re-direction is credible evidence that Cuban intelligence (and most likely Castro) was aware.

Did Oswald read these? Was he aware of them? I think so. But did they motivate him to act in response?

I believe that the defiant “communist salute” by LHO at DPD shortly after his arrest is evidence that he was motivated by those reports. And also most likely he was motivated by other antagonistic domestic speeches by Castro that fall that he heard on his shortwave radio.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2020, 12:53:06 AM »

But that's a pretty far reach; how would Castro even know Oswald was in Dallas that day? There's no evidence of any communications between him and Cuban officials. Where's the evidence for this connection?

Although I agree that we haven’t seen much evidence, and most likely never will; I don’t believe that it is a “far reach” to believe that Cuban intelligence agents would have been keeping track of LHO. After all, he made quite a scene when he visited the consulate in Mexico City. Latell writes that Castro was very much hands on leading the DIG and was immediately made aware of all important items. And that he would have unquestionably been made aware of the LHO visit. Therefore, Castro likely knew where LHO was and that JFK was in the motorcade in Dallas on 11/22/63. So to respond to your question, I believe that, at the very least, Aspillaga’s account of the radio antennae re-direction is credible evidence that Cuban intelligence (and most likely Castro) was aware.

Did Oswald read these? Was he aware of them? I think so. But did they motivate him to act in response?

I believe that the defiant “communist salute” by LHO at DPD shortly after his arrest is evidence that he was motivated by those reports. And also most likely he was motivated by other antagonistic domestic speeches by Castro that fall that he heard on his shortwave radio.

I believe that the defiant “communist salute” by LHO at DPD shortly after his arrest is evidence that he was motivated by those reports.

Oh boy, so now we are down to a biased interpretation of a gesture?


Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2020, 01:25:23 AM »

But that's a pretty far reach; how would Castro even know Oswald was in Dallas that day? There's no evidence of any communications between him and Cuban officials. Where's the evidence for this connection?

Although I agree that we haven’t seen much evidence, and most likely never will; I don’t believe that it is a “far reach” to believe that Cuban intelligence agents would have been keeping track of LHO. After all, he made quite a scene when he visited the consulate in Mexico City. Latell writes that Castro was very much hands on leading the DIG and was immediately made aware of all important items. And that he would have unquestionably been made aware of the LHO visit. Therefore, Castro likely knew where LHO was and that JFK was in the motorcade in Dallas on 11/22/63. So to respond to your question, I believe that, at the very least, Aspillaga’s account of the radio antennae re-direction is credible evidence that Cuban intelligence (and most likely Castro) was aware.

Did Oswald read these? Was he aware of them? I think so. But did they motivate him to act in response?

I believe that the defiant “communist salute” by LHO at DPD shortly after his arrest is evidence that he was motivated by those reports. And also most likely he was motivated by other antagonistic domestic speeches by Castro that fall that he heard on his shortwave radio.
How did Cuban agents know Oswald moved to Dallas? Was working there? Why would they even care about some oddball who made threats against JFK but was, according to the accounts of the Cubans there, tossed out on his rear end. Again, Azcue reportedly forcefully threw Oswald out of the consulate and didn't want anything to do with him.

By the Cubans accounts, Oswald came across as a crank, a misfit that they wanted nothing to do with. It simply doesn't add up to me that they would somehow track his whereabouts. When he went back to Dallas he laid low. How would they find him?

And Oswald put a New Orleans address (4907 Magezina (sic) Street address) on his transit visa application. I can see that if he put Dallas as an address that would help keep track of him.

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2020, 01:30:15 AM »
I believe that the defiant “communist salute” by LHO at DPD shortly after his arrest is evidence that he was motivated by those reports.

Oh boy, so now we are down to a biased interpretation of a gesture?

First of all, this is not an original idea that I dreamt up. It is the theme of Latell’s book. I suggest you read the book before blindly criticizing it. Here is a quote from the book that corroborates what Steve brought up about the speeches and I commented on:

The Dallas Times Herald reported that Kennedy “all but invited the Cuban people to overthrow Castro and promised them support if they do.” In the same editions on November 19, the Dallas press for the first time carried block-by-block details of the route the president’s motorcade would follow three days later. It was then that Lee Harvey Oswald first became aware that Kennedy would pass beneath the windows of the Texas Book Depository where he worked. Oswald probably also read what Kennedy had said in Miami Beach and the Dallas paper’s interpretation of it.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2020, 01:45:07 AM »
First of all, this is not an original idea that I dreamt up. It is the theme of Latell’s book. I suggest you read the book before blindly criticizing it. Here is a quote from the book that corroborates what Steve brought up about the speeches and I commented on:

The Dallas Times Herald reported that Kennedy “all but invited the Cuban people to overthrow Castro and promised them support if they do.” In the same editions on November 19, the Dallas press for the first time carried block-by-block details of the route the president’s motorcade would follow three days later. It was then that Lee Harvey Oswald first became aware that Kennedy would pass beneath the windows of the Texas Book Depository where he worked. Oswald probably also read what Kennedy had said in Miami Beach and the Dallas paper’s interpretation of it.

It is the theme of Latell’s book. I suggest you read the book before blindly criticizing it.

I didn't criticize the book, I criticized the absurd notion that the gesture of a man can be interpreted in the way you (and perhaps the book) did.

It was then that Lee Harvey Oswald first became aware that Kennedy would pass beneath the windows of the Texas Book Depository where he worked.

Just because the Dallas trip was announced in the papers on November 19th doesn't mean automatically that Oswald became aware of it on that date. Given the fact that Oswald used to read yesterday's papers he may well not have known about the schedule of the motorcade until, at best, the next day or even later. The testimony of his co-worker indicates that he asked him, on the 22 th, what the fuzz was all about, which may well mean that he didn't know at all about the motorcade passing by the TSBD until they day it happened.

Oswald probably also read what Kennedy had said in Miami Beach and the Dallas paper’s interpretation of it.

Probably?

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2020, 01:47:08 AM »
How did Cuban agents know Oswald moved to Dallas? Was working there? Why would they even care about some oddball who made threats against JFK but was, according to the accounts of the Cubans there, tossed out on his rear end. Again, Azcue reportedly forcefully threw Oswald out of the consulate and didn't want anything to do with him.

By the Cubans accounts, Oswald came across as a crank, a misfit that they wanted nothing to do with. It simply doesn't add up to me that they would somehow track his whereabouts. When he went back to Dallas he laid low. How would they find him?

And Oswald put a New Orleans address (4907 Magezina (sic) Street address) on his transit visa application. I can see that if he put Dallas as an address that would help keep track of him.

The official responses from the Cubans after the assassination are what they wanted to project. They would have wanted to appear to have dismissed him as a nut. However the Mexico City consulate was a hub of activity for the Cuban intelligence agents’ efforts to enlist and direct many Central American revolutionaries. They were accustomed to dealing with revolutionary zealots like LHO. Why wouldn’t they be interested in LHO? He was attempting to help their cause! They would have at least wanted to find out if he was really who he said he was and not a potential spy. According to Latell, the DGI was better than the CIA in many respects during this period. Some of that was due to the CIA underestimating their abilities.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 02:20:19 AM by Charles Collins »

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2020, 01:59:36 AM »
It is the theme of Latell’s book. I suggest you read the book before blindly criticizing it.

I didn't criticize the book, I criticized the absurd notion that the gesture of a man can be interpreted in the way you (and perhaps the book) did.

It was then that Lee Harvey Oswald first became aware that Kennedy would pass beneath the windows of the Texas Book Depository where he worked.

Just because the Dallas trip was announced in the papers on November 19th doesn't mean automatically that Oswald became aware of it on that date. Given the fact that Oswald used to read yesterday's papers he may well not have known about the schedule of the motorcade until, at best, the next day or even later. The testimony of his co-worker indicates that he asked him, on the 22 th, what the fuzz was all about, which may well mean that he didn't know at all about the motorcade passing by the TSBD until they day it happened.

Oswald probably also read what Kennedy had said in Miami Beach and the Dallas paper’s interpretation of it.

Probably?

Look back at your previous comments in this thread. You have criticized practically every point, and continue to do so.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2020, 02:18:03 AM »
Look back at your previous comments in this thread. You have criticized practically every point, and continue to do so.

Nope.. I have questioned every point and for one very good reason; the points raised are not sound and require all sorts of speculation to even make sense.

Get your act together and present a compellent case and we may have something to talk about. All you are doing so far is confirming your own bias.

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2020, 02:23:32 AM »
Nope.. I have questioned every point and for one very good reason; the points raised are not sound and require all sorts of speculation to even make sense.

Get your act together and present a compellent case and we may have something to talk about. All you are doing so far is confirming your own bias.

Your opinions don’t interest me. Read the book, like I already suggested, and then you might be able to make a comment worth responding to.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Silent Conspiracy
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2020, 02:33:55 AM »
Your opinions don’t interest me. Read the book, like I already suggested, and then you might be able to make a comment worth responding to.

Your opinions don’t interest me.

There it is again, the standard Charles Collins cop out whenever somebody says something he doesn't like.

You are the one who started the thread, now I am giving you feed back you don't like and like a coward you run.... Pathetic!

Don't start a thread and ask for opinions if you can't handle the responses.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 02:35:33 AM by Martin Weidmann »

 

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