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Author Topic: CE 2562  (Read 3267 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: CE 2562
« Reply #100 on: January 25, 2020, 02:05:30 AM »
So, the rifles were shipped in which container, weight of that container - including packing material?

Simple, direct questions.

Also, Oswald ordered 36 " rifle, according to WC.

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So, the rifles were shipped in which container, weight of that container - including packing material?

Listen closely, the shipper request form from "Crescent Firearms" said the amount was 750 and that's what's on ALL the paperwork thereafter, end of argument!
BTW I really don't know why you waste so much of your life worrying about something that has no value?



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Simple, direct questions.

Sure, but how does your self perceived weight anomaly overturn the mountain of evidence I presented above?
You only have conspiracy on your mind and just like "Iacoletti", you get tied up on inconsequential detail and can't see the forest for the trees.

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Also, Oswald ordered 36 " rifle, according to WC.

How does this Conspiracy work? Are you suggesting that evidence was faked yet they couldn't even fake the right details? Go on, tell me more? Hahaha!

JohnM




Online John Iacoletti

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Re: CE 2562
« Reply #101 on: January 25, 2020, 02:40:31 AM »
Sure, but how does your self perceived weight anomaly overturn the mountain of evidence I presented above?

You mean your mountain of misrepresentations?

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You only have conspiracy on your mind and just like "Iacoletti", you get tied up on inconsequential detail and can't see the forest for the trees.

Don’t confuse “Mytton” with details when his mind is made up.

P.S. my name is actually Iacoletti. No quotation marks necessary.

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: CE 2562
« Reply #102 on: January 25, 2020, 03:23:03 AM »


On January 15, 1962, Klein's contracted with Crescent for 400 M91/38 TS Carcanos ("Model 91TS" in the picture above). Klein's advertised in catalogues and several gun and sport magazines; I only have information on their ads that ran in "American Rifleman".



Between March and June, "American Rifleman" ads offered the TS Carcanos (Order No. C20-T749) for $11.88. The model wasn't specified, only "6.5 Italian Carbine". If a customer knew the TS was 36 1/2" long, he might assume he was getting a M91/38 TS Carcano, as the ad presented the length as 36". The illustration showed a different rifle, and the weight was wrong.

"American Rifleman" was a monthly magazine and had a much more slower turnover than a news weekly like "Life". The March issue would have been on the stands around early February, if not late January. Monthlies usually had a deadline for ads to be finalized about a week or two before the magazine was actually printed. Then maybe a week for the magazines to make it from the printers to remote newsstands (the weeklies having priority). So the "American Rifleman" ads that ran between March and June seem to reflect the order from Crescent.

On April 13, 1962 the Cresecent order was amended to receive from Crescent Carcanos presumably of a different model than the TS rifle (the new rifles are not referred to as "Model 91TS") and at a cost increase of one-dollar. We know Crescent paid one-dollar more for the M91/38 Fucile Corto (Short Rifle) 40" Carcanos, being a slightly-more substantial rifle than the 36" TS. Beginning August 1962, "American Rifleman" ads show a new Order No. C20-T1196 for $12.88. This would seem to reflect the one-dollar-more wholesale price from Crescent.

Assuming Klein's was ethical, they would satisfy those $12.88 orders with the 40" Carcanos, and use the same rifles to fulfill the "package deal" with the scope. They continued to advertise the wrong weight and illustration, so it may be that they thought the new Carcanos were 36". They didn't weigh the rifles so why should we assume they measured them; at some point they did or word got back to them because the weight and length were amended during 1963, though not for the February 1963 "American Rifleman" ad.

The use of "T" doesn't mean the Carcanos were TS models. It may mean Type-38 because the 1938 model-revisions were supposedly an improvement over the pre-1938 models. "Italian-Select" the order form to Crescent says. The M91/38s were sold by the Italian government as surplus after the pre-1938 stock had been auctioned off. I assume Klein's would have wanted 1938-and-newer stock, so the references to "38".

Interesting.

Citations?

They ran an ad for a 36" rifle for many months, but had already run out and...continued running the ad and sending different rifles.


Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: CE 2562
« Reply #103 on: January 25, 2020, 05:01:45 AM »
An estimate. DUH!

Sure, if there was an obvious discrepancy.

See above.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, you keep asking for evidence, so here it is.

Oswald was photographed with C2766

Imagine our luck that Oswald posed with both murder weapons so we could ascertain his penchant for assassinating people and holding commie lit showing the motivating ideology that egged him on!

Marina took 5 other pics too and burnt 1 of them. But she didn't take the money shot, CE 133a with the Imperial Reflex camera, she used another camera. Then she lied to the FBI and said she only took 1 photo with the Imperial Reflex. Then the DPD staged some backyard photos and created a cutout of CE 133c, which was found in Roscoe White's widow's house and was never admitted into evidence. Baaaa..

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C2766 was found at Lee Harvey Oswald's place of employment.

Right where the sheep dippers planted it. Baaaa..

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The HSCA evidence showing the chip on C2766 being in the same place as in the Backyard Photos taken at Neely street

Could have been the same rifle they planted in the TSBD. It was the designated patsy rifle after all. Baaa..

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Oswald's palm print was discovered on C2766.

Let's have a look at the FBI analysis that made the match. What, they burned their notes? Baaaa..

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Case Closed!

JohnM

Strewth, you're right mate! How did I not see it? Oswald was a PATSY!!! Baaa..

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: CE 2562
« Reply #104 on: January 25, 2020, 06:33:35 AM »
Listen closely, the shipper request form from "Crescent Firearms" said the amount was 750 and that's what's on ALL the paperwork thereafter, end of argument! So , the 750lbs is now a fact, not an estimate, as you, previously suggested?
BTW I really don't know why you waste so much of your life worrying about something that has no value?
The facts don't matter[?/b]


Sure, but how does your self perceived weight anomaly overturn the mountain of evidence I presented above? what mountain?
You only have conspiracy on your mind and just like "Iacoletti", you get tied up on inconsequential detail and can't see the forest for the trees.

How does this Conspiracy work? Are you suggesting that evidence was faked yet they couldn't even fake the right details?

Certainly a possibility. FBI assembled a "mountain" of evidence in ..less than 48 hours.

JohnM

« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 06:36:52 AM by John Tonkovich »

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: CE 2562
« Reply #105 on: January 25, 2020, 07:01:18 AM »
An estimate. DUH!

Sure, if there was an obvious discrepancy.

See above.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, you keep asking for evidence, so here it is.

Crescent Firearms sent C2766.



Kleins received C2766



Kleins sent C2766 to Oswald's PO Box.



Oswald was photographed with C2766



C2766 was found at Lee Harvey Oswald's place of employment.



The HSCA evidence showing the chip on C2766 being in the same place as in the Backyard Photos taken at Neely street



Mr. FITHIAN. Then I take it, it is your testimony that the chip or the defect is sufficiently unique, with the corners or whatever, that spotting it in each of the pictures at least gives you the confidence that that rifle you are holding is the rifle that was photographed?
Sergeant KIRK. When I match that up with the scientific data Mr. McCamy has obtained from measuring it, this has to tilt the scales in the direction, yes, indeed it is the same rifle.


Mr. FITHIAN. Mr. McCamy, can you give us any measurement or photogrammetric process or anything that you did to further nail down this I think vital question.
Mr. McCAMY. Yes. We made measurements, measurements on the rifle, and on the photographs to ascertain that indeed this particular chip was in the right place.


Oswald's palm print was discovered on C2766.



Case Closed!

JohnM

836. Looks like g to me
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 07:02:25 AM by John Tonkovich »

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: CE 2562
« Reply #106 on: January 28, 2020, 09:10:03 PM »
An estimate. DUH!

Sure, if there was an obvious discrepancy.

See above.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, you keep asking for evidence, so here it is.

Crescent Firearms sent C2766.



Kleins received C2766



Kleins sent C2766 to Oswald's PO Box.



Oswald was photographed with C2766



C2766 was found at Lee Harvey Oswald's place of employment.



The HSCA evidence showing the chip on C2766 being in the same place as in the Backyard Photos taken at Neely street



Mr. FITHIAN. Then I take it, it is your testimony that the chip or the defect is sufficiently unique, with the corners or whatever, that spotting it in each of the pictures at least gives you the confidence that that rifle you are holding is the rifle that was photographed?
Sergeant KIRK. When I match that up with the scientific data Mr. McCamy has obtained from measuring it, this has to tilt the scales in the direction, yes, indeed it is the same rifle.


Mr. FITHIAN. Mr. McCamy, can you give us any measurement or photogrammetric process or anything that you did to further nail down this I think vital question.
Mr. McCAMY. Yes. We made measurements, measurements on the rifle, and on the photographs to ascertain that indeed this particular chip was in the right place.


Oswald's palm print was discovered on C2766.



Case Closed!

JohnM

Again, that is G on line 836

It's already been pointed out, years ago, that the rifle - one of the rifles - is marked with a "G".

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: CE 2562
« Reply #107 on: January 29, 2020, 12:26:19 AM »
836. Looks like g to me

I would agree with 95% of Mr Mutton's post.....   I do believe that Lee ordered the carcano ...BUT George De M actually bought the Postal MO and gave it to Lee to order the cheap old unusual rifle that they wanted to use as a photo prop for the BY photo and a throw down gun to be left for the police to find at Walker's house.

The 5% of Mutton's post that is totally wrong is the part where he actually believes that the smudge on the foregrip of the rifle is Lee's palm print.    Anybody who believes that an adult man could grasp the 5/8" diameter ( the size of a AA penlight battery)  metal barrel and deposit an identifiable palm print on the small cylinderical surface should visit a shrink....

That part of Mutton's post is pure BS....   The liars who framed Lee have made suckers out of gullible idiots like Mutton......

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: CE 2562
« Reply #108 on: January 29, 2020, 12:48:10 AM »
I would agree with 95% of Mr Mutton's post.....   I do believe that Lee ordered the carcano ...BUT George De M actually bought the Postal MO and gave it to Lee to order the cheap old unusual rifle that they wanted to use as a photo prop for the BY photo and a throw down gun to be left for the police to find at Walker's house.

The 5% of Mutton's post that is totally wrong is the part where he actually believes that the smudge on the foregrip of the rifle is Lee's palm print.    Anybody who believes that an adult man could grasp the 5/8" diameter ( the size of a AA penlight battery)  metal barrel and deposit an identifiable palm print on the small cylinderical surface should visit a shrink....

That part of Mutton's post is pure BS....   The liars who framed Lee have made suckers out of gullible idiots like Mutton......

Ok. ? You have citations on any of what you've stated?

The topic is. CE 2562.  Weight of the rifle. Packing. Shipping.  750 lbs.
Which suggests ..36" rifles - which is what Oswald, or someone - ordered. 5.5 lbs  x. 100 = 550lbs. Plus , possibly, weight of wooden crate, plus packing materials?

Or 100 40" rifles, @ 7 or 7.5 lbs, leaving either 50lbs, or none, for packaging.

Also, inventory lists rifle as G2766. 

Your contributions to this topic are always appreciated.
Thanks.

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: CE 2562
« Reply #109 on: January 29, 2020, 12:54:52 AM »
I would agree with 95% of Mr Mutton's post.....   I do believe that Lee ordered the carcano ...BUT George De M actually bought the Postal MO and gave it to Lee to order the cheap old unusual rifle that they wanted to use as a photo prop for the BY photo and a throw down gun to be left for the police to find at Walker's house.

The 5% of Mutton's post that is totally wrong is the part where he actually believes that the smudge on the foregrip of the rifle is Lee's palm print.    Anybody who believes that an adult man could grasp the 5/8" diameter ( the size of a AA penlight battery)  metal barrel and deposit an identifiable palm print on the small cylinderical surface should visit a shrink....

That part of Mutton's post is pure BS....   The liars who framed Lee have made suckers out of gullible idiots like Mutton......


 

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