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Author Topic: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?  (Read 8761 times)

Offline Alan Hardaker

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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2020, 08:57:55 PM »
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James Tague, who was the only other person,apart from JFK & Connally, known to have been injured. He took a minor wound to his right cheek. He claimed, I believe, that he was hit after the first shot. He also claimed he heard that shot after JFK's Limo had straightened out on Elm St.

The timing of the Tague shot probably hasn't been investigated enough. A shot between the throat shot and the head shot puts the whole lone nut case into a tailspin.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 09:05:07 PM by Alan Hardaker »

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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2020, 08:57:55 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2020, 09:49:14 PM »
Gary Craig,

Any other witnesses corroborate Willis' recollection of the timing of the first shot?

--  MWT  ;)

Gary just blessed us once again with his favorite Phil Willis testimony cherry-pick.

Describing the Kennedys, Willis recalled:

    "In slide No. 4 he was looking pretty much toward -- straight ahead, and
     she was looking more to the left, which would be my side of the street.
     Then when the first shot was fired, she turned to the right toward him
     and he more or less slumped forward, and it caused me to wonder if he
     were hit, although I couldn’t say."

   

JFK arrowed; Mrs. Kennedy in pink pillbox hat.

Mrs. Kennedy has already turned to her right in Willis 05.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2020, 10:49:03 PM »
As the first shot missed and the timing is not known, it is the timings of the second shot that becomes important and that particular stop watch starts the millisecond the throat shot if fired.

The only reason the “first missed shot” was postulated was because:

a) the single bullet theory was necessary to preserve the single shooter narrative.

b) 3 shells were allegedly recovered from the 6th floor of the TSBD.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 06:15:42 AM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2020, 10:49:03 PM »


Offline Gary Craig

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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2020, 01:39:48 PM »
Gary Craig,

Any other witnesses corroborate Willis' recollection of the timing of the first shot?

--  MWT  ;)

https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/index.htm

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Decker_Ex_5323.pdf


Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November A. D.1963
personally appeared -Austin Lawrence Miller W/M 26Addr. 1006 PowZll Circle, Mesquitt

-snip

It had preceeded about halfway from Houston
Street to the underpass when I heard what sounded like a shot a short second two
more sharp reports . A man in the back seat slumped over and a woman in bright col
ored dress (Orange or Yellow) grabbed the man and yelled . One shot apparently hit
the street past the car. I saw something which I thought was smoke or steam
coming from a group of trees north of Elm off the Railroad tracks .

-snip-

--------------------------------

Motorcade cop tells how it happened B.W. Hargis
Sunday News (New York) 24 November 1963


“Motorcade Cop Tells How It Happened,” Sunday News (New York), 24 November 1963, p.25:

Dallas, Nov. 23 (Special) - B. W. Hargis, 31, Dallas motorcycle patrolman who was riding
in President Kennedy’s motorcade, gave this account today of the assassination:
 
“We turned left onto Elm St. off Houston, about half a block from where it happened. I was
right alongside the rear fender on the left hand side of the President’s car, near Mrs. Kennedy.
 
When I heard the first explosion, I knew it was a shot. I thought that Gov. Connally had been
hit when I saw him turn toward the President with a real surprised look.

The President then looked like he was bent over or that he was leaning toward the Governor, talking to him.
 
As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of his head,
spinning it around.

I was splattered with blood.
 
Then I felt something hit me. It could have been concrete or something, but I thought at first I might have been hit.
Then I saw the limousine stop, and I parked my motorcycle at the side of the road, got off and drew my gun.
 
Then this Secret Service agent (in the President’s car) got his wits about him and they took off. The
motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward and announced to the chief that
the President had been shot.”


---------------------------------------



« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 02:48:37 PM by Gary Craig »

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2020, 01:50:12 PM »
Gary just blessed us once again with his favorite Phil Willis testimony cherry-pick.

Describing the Kennedys, Willis recalled:

    "In slide No. 4 he was looking pretty much toward -- straight ahead, and
     she was looking more to the left, which would be my side of the street.
     Then when the first shot was fired, she turned to the right toward him
     and he more or less slumped forward, and it caused me to wonder if he
     were hit, although I couldn’t say."

   

JFK arrowed; Mrs. Kennedy in pink pillbox hat.

Mrs. Kennedy has already turned to her right in Willis 05.

"Describing the Kennedys, Willis recalled:

    "In slide No. 4 he was looking pretty much toward -- straight ahead, and
     she was looking more to the left, which would be my side of the street.
     Then when the first shot was fired, she turned to the right toward him
     and he more or less slumped forward, and it caused me to wonder if he
     were hit, although I couldn’t say."


He had his finger on the shutter button of his camera when the 1st shot went off causing him to snap a photo at that instant. In effect creating a time stamp of the event - versus his recall of what he was seeing.   ???

In the world I live in the photo he took at the instant of the shot is the better record of what was occurring.


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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2020, 01:50:12 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2020, 03:38:20 PM »
"Describing the Kennedys, Willis recalled:

    "In slide No. 4 he was looking pretty much toward -- straight ahead, and
     she was looking more to the left, which would be my side of the street.
     Then when the first shot was fired, she turned to the right toward him
     and he more or less slumped forward, and it caused me to wonder if he
     were hit, although I couldn’t say."


He had his finger on the shutter button of his camera when the 1st shot went off causing him to snap a photo at that instant. In effect creating a time stamp of the event - versus his recall of what he was seeing.   ???

In the world I live in the photo he took at the instant of the shot is the better record of what was occurring.

Or it could be hype to help sell his slide set.

Willis thought his fifth slide corresponded to Z226 and that it showed what his slide didn't: that Kennedy "had already grabbed his throat". He testified at the Shaw Trail: "I cocked my camera for another picture and this loud shot went off ...  so I became alarmed". He then added: " I was trying to take a picture at the moment and the reflex from the shot caused me to take one of these pictures." It was the "reflex from the shot" (shot reverberations?) that caused him to take his fifth slide.

Offline Anthony Clayden

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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2020, 12:04:53 AM »
Truth is that the official story changed as evidence come up that caused the previous story to be no longer sustainable.

3 casing can only be likely proof of more than 2 shots from 6th floor of TSBD.
As the sequence "eject shell, fire shot, eject shell, fire shot, eject shell and no shot" is as plausible as "shot, eject shell, shot, eject shell, shot, eject shell"

So now you are left with injuries... Initially Connally with multiple wounds from most likely 1 bullet and Kennedy with 2 wounds from clearly 2 different, with the both Connally's insistence on Kennedy injury from 1st shot followed by Connally's injury from 2nd second shot. So as we know the initial official story was Kennedy neck shot than Connally shot than Kennedy head shot.

Tague's testimony of a ricochet injury, from what he indicated was the 2nd shot, meant that there were either 4 shots (Kennedy, Tague, Connally, Kennedy or Kennedy, Connally, Tague, Kennedy ) or as is now the official story the first bullet that hit both Connally and then Kennedy. (Kennedy/Connally. Miss hitting Tague, Kennedy.)

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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2020, 12:04:53 AM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: 5.6 seconds or 4.9 seconds (between magic bullet and head shot)?
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2020, 12:25:30 AM »
Truth is that the official story changed as evidence come up that caused the previous story to be no longer sustainable.

3 casing can only be likely proof of more than 2 shots from 6th floor of TSBD.
As the sequence "eject shell, fire shot, eject shell, fire shot, eject shell and no shot" is as plausible as "shot, eject shell, shot, eject shell, shot, eject shell"

So now you are left with injuries... Initially Connally with multiple wounds from most likely 1 bullet and Kennedy with 2 wounds from clearly 2 different, with the both Connally's insistence on Kennedy injury from 1st shot followed by Connally's injury from 2nd second shot. So as we know the initial official story was Kennedy neck shot than Connally shot than Kennedy head shot.

Tague's testimony of a ricochet injury, from what he indicated was the 2nd shot, meant that there were either 4 shots (Kennedy, Tague, Connally, Kennedy or Kennedy, Connally, Tague, Kennedy ) or as is now the official story the first bullet that hit both Connally and then Kennedy. (Kennedy/Connally. Miss hitting Tague, Kennedy.)

Some other considerations.

If a bullet went through the President's neck (autopsy said no bullets or fragments in neck from either back and front wounds), where did it go? (ie: most likely into Connally but if not, where? Ice bullet?)

The bullet that went into Connally arguably was tumbling.

If Tague was simply wrong, fragment from headshot could have caused his injury (Thompson said it was a possibility).