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Author Topic: Coup D'etat in 1963  (Read 4491 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2019, 09:24:46 PM »
It is an interesting theory based on the ties to Clay Shaw (the primary target of James Garrison)
Yeah...and it was a dead end rabbit hole. Clay Shaw was found not guilty...therefore don't we see... there was no conspiracy to kill JFK ::)
 One of the earliest skeptics wrote in his book "How Kennedy Was Killed" [and this was post Garrison]
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September 21, 1967, strikingly confirms every one of the charges I leveled against the Dallas police, time and again, in each of my six published books on the subject. As early as 1964, I openly accused the then Chief of Police, Jesse Curry, of complicity in the slaying of the President. My principal reason for making this grave charge was, at the time, an ill-considered statement made by Curry at a press conference on November 23. Asked why he had radioed instructions to surround and search the Texas School Book Depository immediately after the fatal shot had been fired, Curry said he could tell from the sound of the three shots that they had come from that building....... Joachim Joesten

That was not true. Curry ordered his men to the "railroad yards"
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Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/index.htm
Another failure to research their claims. It was Sgt Gerald Hill who circumvented that order by stating that he had this witness :-\
However, one thing Joesten got right...the cops were in on it up to their eyeballs. Which cops?... are mentioned so in this forum.
I don't think Curry was...he was just there to take the fall as chief of the Keystones.
 

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2019, 09:53:22 PM »
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Conspicuously absent in The Skorzeny Papers are any substantial sub-headings detailing Cuban exiles, Allen Dulles, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, or any of the genuine suspects of the JFK assassination, save for meanderings on James Angleton’s and Bill Harvey’s roles in the creation of Staff D, the CIA’s executive action arm. Ruth and Michael Paine are nowhere to be found. Neither is a description of the aborted Chicago plot, or any substantive explanation of how Lee Harvey Oswald was moved into the Texas School Book Depository, or a note about David Phillips’ role in the whole affair from his Mexico City station. While these very real aspects of the actual JFK plot are infrequently touched upon in passing—Ganis cannot ignore the entire body of evidence, despite his best efforts—he insists on crow-barring his newfound “primary source data” into a story that at this point doesn’t permit much unique interpretation. It’s safe to say, in 2018, that President Kennedy was assassinated by a domestic, military-industrial-intelligence apparatus that viewed his foreign policy as anathema to both the “winning” of the Cold War and to their image of the United States’ role in world affairs. That Kennedy was a staunch decolonization advocate, a friend and champion of Third World leaders like Sukarno in Indonesia, Nasser in Egypt, Lumumba in the Congo, and sought diplomatic solutions to prevent the impending nuclear Armageddon with Nikita Khrushchev’s Soviet Union is all but ignored in Ganis’ conclusions as to why JFK was shot in Dallas. None of it is suggested. What ultimately led to the tragedy in Dealey Plaza, according to Ganis, is something much bigger.
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/major-ralph-p-ganis-the-skorzeny-papers-evidence-for-the-plot-to-kill-jfk

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2019, 12:27:15 AM »
Yeah...and it was a dead end rabbit hole. Clay Shaw was found not guilty...therefore don't we see... there was no conspiracy to kill JFK ::)
 One of the earliest skeptics wrote in his book "How Kennedy Was Killed" [and this was post Garrison]
That was not true. Curry ordered his men to the "railroad yards" http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/index.htm
Another failure to research their claims. It was Sgt Gerald Hill who circumvented that order by stating that he had this witness :-\
However, one thing Joesten got right...the cops were in on it up to their eyeballs. Which cops?... are mentioned so in this forum.
I don't think Curry was...he was just there to take the fall as chief of the Keystones.

I don't think Curry was...he was just there to take the fall as chief of the Keystones.

Curry had to have been "in the loop".....   There was good reason that LBJ had Curry take him from Parkland to Love field where he commandeered President Kennedy's plane (AF-1)    LBJ shunned the Secret Service because he knew Curry had "got the memo" and he was in the loop.

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2019, 01:56:53 AM »
Oh
   There was good reason that LBJ had Curry take him from Parkland to Love field 
Jesse Curry was a stooge and did what he was told. Johnson was that way with people.

Offline Paul May

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2019, 12:20:45 AM »
A tremendous post alright. The Rothschild Cartel conspiracy theory. The good old Illuminati conspiracy theory. Tremendous is the word for it. Wacky is the word that best describes it.

Bingo!

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2019, 12:29:20 PM »
....
http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Nazi%20Connection%20to%20JFK%20Assass.html

from above:

Clay Shaw, who was charged by New Orleans D.A. Jim Garrison with complicity in the JFK assassination, was a close friend of Hjalmar Schacht.

......

It is an interesting theory based on the ties to Clay Shaw (the primary target of James Garrison)

John, some advice, slow your roll. Mixed signals do not strong conclusions make. Mae tended to detect Nazis almost everywhere. DiEugenio has had a good run,
but Garrison fooled even Joan Mellen, who was much better acquainted with Garrison than DiEugenio was.





IOW, if DiEugenio refuses to even consider or discuss that Clay Shaw, his former Trademart PR guy, David Baldwin (Ms. Mellen's "CIA people") and Garrison were all keeping the same details confidential, how can you or I draw any reliable conclusions about who Garrison or Shaw were or what they were really up to?

Not an encouraging sign when DiEugenio does a "drive by" on you, instead of STFU until he can make a reasonable, well supported argument.

Quote
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?17025-The-Crimes-of-Quillette&p=126009#post126009
Tom Scully posted  09-01-2019

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Originally Posted by Jim DiEugenio View Post
Tom, I like you personally and I think you usually do good work and I defended you when people were attacking your approach at EF.

But I am at a loss to explain how you fell for Carpenter. This is a guy who writes for Max Holland.....
......
Well, enough time has passed now to reliably observe that Jim did a "drive by" on me. (Imagine how different this might have gone down if he did not like me....)

Isn't another way of saying what Jim conveyed to me?
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Tom, I like you personally.... unfortunately you are stupid enough to fall for the pronouncements of Max Holland's lackey, Donald Carpenter...

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_the_messenger
"Shooting the messenger" is a metaphoric phrase used to describe the act of blaming the bearer of bad news.
Until the advent of modern telecommunication, messages were usually delivered by human envoys. For example, in war, a messenger would be sent from one camp to another. If the message was unfitting, the receiver might blame the messenger for such bad news and take their anger out on them....

Anybody else discern a double meaning in Edward Baldwin's televised aside to his first cousin's, Liz Ziegler's husband, Jim Garrison?

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https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK’s Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006.
.......JOAN: – when (Atty Edward) Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people. Malcolm O’Hara is sitting there – he doesn’t know what hit him – and eventually Strate did not cooperate, and he went up there, and he attacked Sheridan – of course, Sheridan had immunity – nothing anyone could say about Sheridan whether in court, affidavits signed against Sheridan, Sheridan had immunity as a National Security Agency asset, cleared for FBI work, cleared for CIA work, working for the Department of Justice -…....
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/TV-Radio%20Transcripts%20From%20Trunzo%20Russ/WFLD-TV/67-07-11.pdf




Pretty slow activity here lately. Summer doldrums. Lots more readers than posters.

Lotsa clamoring by late 1966 to reopen the Warren "investigation".... not so much after the Clay Shaw trial and verdict,
"brought to you by" one family... the matriarch of which was Mrs. Monte Lemann, aka Mildred Crumb Lemann...
Mildred had two stepsons, Stephen B Lemann and Thomas B Lemann. Thomas's son is Nicholas B. Lemann. Mildred had a daughter,
also named Mildred, AKA Mrs. David Baldwin. David had a brother. Edward Baldwin... The Baldwin brothers' mother was Mrs. Harry (nee Adele Xiegler) Raworth....
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Zachary Sklar — Charlie Rose
https://charlierose.com/guests/11110

Lists all of Zachary Sklar's appearances on the Charlie Rose program on ... Nicholas Lemann, David Denby, and Zachary Sklar debate Oliver Stone's movie ...
Quote
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=124973#post124973
Originally Posted by Tom Scully
.....
Garrison's name and the name Mrs Harry Raworth, the mother of David and Edward Baldwin, appear in the 1968 obit of Harold Ziegler, father-in-law of Jim Garrison.:


Quote
Replying to
@lisapease

Another flaw in the Garrison research & writing of DiEugenio & Lisa Pease
https://jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2296.0.html
Nothing personal, Lisa, just some facts thought you should consider, still admire the bulk of your prodigious work over many years! What's up with Tulsi-JimDi?

And Paul, maybe you can share some pointers on how to weigh likelihood something like this is coincidental, or not.....

Quote
http://jfkforum.com/2017/10/01/are-we-there-yet-part-ii/

....Tom Scully on July 20, 2017, 07:42:12 PM

……..
Priscilla Johnson fully inserted herself into Marina’s life by late July, 1964, as Katya and Declan Ford did the hand off to Priscilla. Priscilla’s CIA handler was Garrison Garry Coit. Coit and Thomas Devine and 15 other Sigma Chi frat brothers cohabited in their frat house on MIT campus from fall, 1944. Coit went to Naval radio school in late Sept., Devine followed two weeks later.

Devine had nine contacts with DeMohrenschildt from late April, 1963 through late May. Devine and his close friend Joseph F Dryer, Jr. met separately with DeMohrenschildt and Clemard Charles on 25 April, 1963.

In late Sept., 1964, Priscilla put herself and Marina under the domicile and hospitality of her first cousin David C. Davenport, later described by Sam Ballen as a former CIA man. Davenport’s obit refers to his intelligence work.
In December, 1964, news and FBI reports describe Marina and Priscilla residing in a Sedona, AZ apartment, transported and escorted by Jerome Hastings, close friend of Davenport, driving Davenport’s Corvair with Alaska plates. In July, 1965, Davenport and Hastings are sued in New Mexico by Hasting’s step-daughter, JoAnn McAdams,
first cousin of presidential assistant Clark Clifford. The suit describes Hastings as then second husband of Clifford’s aunt, Marguerite Bowman McAdams Hasty. In 1966, Jerome Hasty legally changed his name in New Mexico to Hastings.

At this link, I have documented that in 1978 HSCA counsel asked Priscilla Johnson Macmillan why her book, “Marina and Lee” was delayed at least a dozen years. See http://archive.is/esTuB
One excuse Priscilla offered was that she had experienced a bad period in which her father was a concealed suicide.
The last person reported to see Priscilla’s father Stuart alive and who reported him as missing to Locust Valley, LI police was James A. Thomas, a cousin of Allen Dulles whose sister Eleanor Lansing Thomas was maid of honor in Clover Dulles’s wedding.

.....
Quote
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=102334174

Louise Wolcott Hooker Dodge – First cousin of Senator Jay (John D IV) Rockefeller’s grandfather Elon Huntington Hooker,
and grandmother of Thomas J. Devine.
............

In this "Bush book," blurb, Bush is thanking Devine, as well as "Bemis," who was actually Bush best friend Fitzgerald Gerry Bemiss, who matched the background description in Billy's 1977 letter to President Carter, of the advisor to Henry Hurt about how to put the screws to Billy Joe Lord if Billy refused to cooperate with Hurt.

Quote
The China Diary of George H. W. Bush: The Making of a Global ...
https://books.google.com › books
Jeffrey A. Engel - 2011 - ‎History
Bemis, Lias and Devine had a meeting regarding my political future—very thoughtful of them.5 All I know now is to do the best job one can here. There is no ...
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 01:07:37 PM by Tom Scully »

Offline Thomas Halle

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2019, 12:04:52 AM »
I don't mind this reply to the remarks of Mr. Pesa....but, why--THE DICKENS--would you copy the ENTIRE body of his remarks? Why not just a small section, to which you are replying?!! Having to wade through what amounts to about FOUR pages is kinda crazy. :-[

Offline John Pesa

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2019, 06:15:58 PM »
A version of my post adapted/written by a dear and mutual friend:

     from Coup d'etat 1963 by John Pesa (JFK Assassination Forums post)

       A man who sat on the Warren Commission and whose name is old news for those who study Cold War spying, Allen Dulles, enjoyed a certain intimacy with the accused, Lee Oswald, and also with a senior member of German High Command, Adolf Hitler, with whom he met for Schroeder Bank in 1933 to forgive his campaign debts.   A lover of Dulles, Mary Bancroft was a very close friend of Ruth Forbes Paine, whose son, Michael, had Oswald's rifle in his garage.  Oswald went to the Paine residence once a week to visit his wife, who was boarding there, not to visit his rifle.   It could easily have been moved without his knowing.   
       The Warren Report was a publication, not an investigation.  It had more in common with Life Magazine than the records of a homicide bureau.  The fact that it was discarded by real investigators as pulp fiction has not saved us from the legacy of a family friend's advice column.  Life Magazine had a holding interest in the matter of Clare Boothe Luce, the owner Henry Luce's wife.  Clare was also a lover of Dulles, a spymaster with whom Jacqueline Kennedy was a confidante, and the author of a scandalizing Broadway smash hit play, "The Women." 
       While Henry Luce purchased, suppressed, and tampered with for publication, the A.Z. film of the murder, Clare circulated a profile of Oswald provided by George Joannides, who handled the Cuban Student Directorate that he said Oswald joined as a spy.   It was a CIA funded group providing Clare with her woman's day journal material, a fraternal paper feed, sort of like a church-friendly council get-together and tell-all.  Naturally, attempts to bureaucratize the information to evaluate for substance and by source were pooh-poohed as irresponsible journalism by spoilers with an agenda, yakking their paranoid theories, to gleeful giggles on-stage.
       People do not like going mad.  What is sometimes called The Kennedy Curse is actually targeting of their family by the Reich to shatter the mind of America and demoralize our victory.   In this sense, the Kennedy Curse is a curse on the United States of America, but more importantly a hex, with riddles of a hexagram expounded, against any attempt to disclose or inform.  The anti-Kennedy hex now rules.
       Clare Boothe Luce was a descendant of John Wilkes Booth, who did in a different Abraham than the one who profited from her husband's acquisition.   The Paine Family, who were given a public image by the Warren Magazine as sincere Quakers caught up suddenly in a mess that they were helping America straighten out, should have been reviewed the way Mary Surratt was investigated for her role in the murder of Lincoln.  Nothing of the sort transpired.  To this day, even the most determined and honest Kennedy researchers are known to avert their eyes from significant patterns.
       It is as though it is too much to consider that gossip columnists who preferred the Reich, from which Ingrid Bergman came, triumphed by lady's will.

Offline Thomas Halle

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2019, 10:52:31 PM »
Well said, Jerry.  :)

BTW, this is Dr. Thomas Halle, a medical professional since 1990, and a member of the Research Community for at least forty years. My unpublished MS is "Treason and Treachery in 1963."

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2019, 07:44:58 PM »
Bingo!
Not to Iacolletti. You have to prove to him that the Illuminati/Rothschild/Federal Reserve power brokers who really run the world didn't kill JFK. He won't accept evidence - any - of Oswald's guilt but will consider this absolute paranoid nonsense.

It is odd: the theory is that all of these powerful groups who run the country, if not the world, had to stop JFK because something or other. They run the world, they have control of the levers of power but JFK had to be stopped because...well, something or other. Vietnam, the gold standard, aliens, the MIC...something.

 

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