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Author Topic: Coup D'etat in 1963  (Read 2369 times)

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 04:55:20 PM »

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 04:55:20 PM »

Offline John Anderson

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 05:53:35 PM »
Cool rebuttal, bro.

What you would rather I tried to educate the poster by explaining how Darby compared an ink print with a poor quality photo copy of a print, how he claimed to find way less similarities than the poster claims, and how Darby somehow failed to recognise more differences than similarities. After explaining all this to the poster I could then supply links for him to read, contemplate, then possibly alter his position regarding the credibility of finger print evidence belonging to 'known hit man' Malcolm Wallace.

I could indeed do all that but judging by the posters apparent desire to believe fantasy, as evidenced in this very thread, I reckon he wouldn't be interested so I'd rather just do this instead....


Offline Lee Wotton

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 07:17:10 PM »
Great post John!!

Also what were the odds of all those key witnesses (that didn't support the WC or FBI explanation) dying in such a short time frame again? Oh yes over 1 trillion to one!!


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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 07:17:10 PM »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 08:07:18 PM »
Great post John!!

Also what were the odds of all those key witnesses (that didn't support the WC or FBI explanation) dying in such a short time frame again? Oh yes over 1 trillion to one!!

Umpteen Trillion to One Odds?
Cite: MacAdams

The conspiracy literature occasionally still quotes a supposed study done by the London Sunday Times which found that "the odds against these [assassination] witnesses being dead by February 1967, were one hundred thousand trillion to one."

The House Select Committee on Assassinations asked the newspaper where they got that number. The paper replied with the following letter.

"The Editor has passed me your letter of 25th April.
Our piece about the odds against the deaths of the Kennedy witnesses was, I regret to say, based on a careless journalistic mistake and should not have been published. This was realized by The Sunday Times' editorial staff after the first edition ? the one which goes to the United States and which I believe you have ? had gone out, and later editions were amended.

There was no question of our actuary having got his answer wrong. It was simply that we asked him the wrong question. He was asked what were the odds against 15 named people out of the population of the United States dying within a short period of time to which he replied ? correctly ? that they were very high. However, if one asks what are the odds against 15 of those included in the Warren Commission index dying within a given period, the answer is, of course, that they are much lower. Our mistake was to treat the reply to the former question as if it dealt with the latter ? hence the fundamental error in our first edition report, for which we apologize.

None of the editorial staff involved in this story can remember the name of the actuary we consulted, but in view of what happened you will, I imagine, agree that his identity is hardly material."

Yours sincerely,
Antony Whitaker,
Legal Manager.
(4 HSCA 464-65)

Offline Lee Wotton

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 08:57:37 PM »
Umpteen Trillion to One Odds?
Cite: MacAdams

The conspiracy literature occasionally still quotes a supposed study done by the London Sunday Times which found that "the odds against these [assassination] witnesses being dead by February 1967, were one hundred thousand trillion to one."

The House Select Committee on Assassinations asked the newspaper where they got that number. The paper replied with the following letter.

"The Editor has passed me your letter of 25th April.
Our piece about the odds against the deaths of the Kennedy witnesses was, I regret to say, based on a careless journalistic mistake and should not have been published. This was realized by The Sunday Times' editorial staff after the first edition ? the one which goes to the United States and which I believe you have ? had gone out, and later editions were amended.

There was no question of our actuary having got his answer wrong. It was simply that we asked him the wrong question. He was asked what were the odds against 15 named people out of the population of the United States dying within a short period of time to which he replied ? correctly ? that they were very high. However, if one asks what are the odds against 15 of those included in the Warren Commission index dying within a given period, the answer is, of course, that they are much lower. Our mistake was to treat the reply to the former question as if it dealt with the latter ? hence the fundamental error in our first edition report, for which we apologize.

None of the editorial staff involved in this story can remember the name of the actuary we consulted, but in view of what happened you will, I imagine, agree that his identity is hardly material."

Yours sincerely,
Antony Whitaker,
Legal Manager.
(4 HSCA 464-65)

Much lower than a hundred thousand trillion to one is still a huge number!!!  It doesn't dent the point made

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 08:57:37 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 09:34:07 PM »
What you would rather I tried to educate the poster by explaining how Darby compared an ink print with a poor quality photo copy of a print, how he claimed to find way less similarities than the poster claims, and how Darby somehow failed to recognise more differences than similarities. After explaining all this to the poster I could then supply links for him to read, contemplate, then possibly alter his position regarding the credibility of finger print evidence belonging to 'known hit man' Malcolm Wallace.

Yes, I would have preferred that.

Offline John Pesa

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2019, 02:22:14 AM »
x

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2019, 02:22:14 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2019, 03:13:47 AM »
Allan Dulles wasn't fired.
OK you could say he was dismissed**  ::)
Quote
LBJ didn't hand-pick Dulles for the Commission. Dulles, along with John McCloy, were recommended by Bobby Kennedy.
So LBJ said.  Johnson's man Katzenbach mentioned this. However...RFK nor any one close to him ever confirmed that.
Quote
LBJ continued Kennedy's policies towards Vietnam.
I'm sure there is disagreement about that :-\
 
Quote
**During the Kennedy Administration, Dulles faced increasing criticism.[2] In autumn 1961, following the Bay of Pigs incident and Algiers putsch against Charles de Gaulle, Dulles and his entourage, including Deputy Director for Plans Richard M. Bissell Jr. and Deputy Director Charles Cabell, were forced to resign. On November 28, 1961, Kennedy presented Dulles with the National Security Medal at the CIA Headquarters in Langley, Virginia.[30] The next day, November 29, the White House released a resignation letter signed by Dulles.[31]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Dulles#Dismissal

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2019, 03:13:47 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2019, 07:55:10 PM »
The Warren Commission Report framed the couple that Lee Harvey Oswald was staying with just prior to the Assassination, Michael and Ruth Paine, as some random Quaker family that were Good Samaritans ..........
The Paines weren't really a 'couple' at the time. They were separated. Michael Paine lived in Grand Prairie [a suburb west of Dallas] close to Bell Helicopter where he worked. He was a visitor to Irving on weekends.
Quote
John J. McCloy was a hairdresser for the Schiff Family 
  :D :D His mother was. John McCloy was a laywer. Check your facts next time.
A narrative like the lead post should have been footnoted. Where did it all come from? 
I'm sure there may be a colorful response to that :-\
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 07:57:49 PM by Jerry Freeman »

Offline John Pesa

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2019, 02:14:07 AM »
Yes, John J. McCloy's mother was the hairdresser of the Schiff's up in Bar Harbor, Maine.

https://jaxrevenge.blogspot.com/2011/06/hairdressers-son.html

from above, Jack's Flame, the Origins of John J McCloy, Warren Commission Member:

This is Anna the hairdresser's son, Jack. The photo was taken in 1916 where he was a freshman in college. Outside the classroom he began taking tutoring jobs to earn a little more money for tuition. During the summer of 1920, Jack accompanied his mother once again but this time he was able to hire himself out as a tutor of history and law. One day his mother urged him to approach the Rockefellers, one of her rich clients, for a tutoring job.

Although the Rockefeller children aleady had a history tutor his personable mother managed to get Jack a job teaching the young Rockefellers sailing in the harbor below their estate. John D. Rockefeller, Jr., was forty-six years old and had five sons and one daughter, Abby, who was seventeen at the time. John D. 3rd, Nelson, Laurance, Winthrop, and young David ranged in ages from fourteen to five. That summer set the terms for what turned out to be a lifelong association between Jack and the Rockefellers. David was so young at the time that he would scarcely remember the episode. But in the eyes of the other boys, McCloy would always seem a teacher, a mature figure, closer in authority to their father's generation than to their own.


The source that has George Lyman Paine (Michael Paine's father) as a boyhood friend (sailed together in Bar Harbor) with the Rockefeller boys is:

Not Without Love, Memoirs, by Constance Webb, page 124.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ltvgliX4Qw4C&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=george+lyman+paine+rockefeller+sutton+island&source=bl&ots=ipA3-Mr1qi&sig=ACfU3U2nZrL_Ruj-QsZ2PAxRD5wWjM55jg&hl=en&ppis=_e&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiw2Z2HoITmAhUDmeAKHdoRD2oQ6AEwBXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=george%20lyman%20paine%20rockefeller%20sutton%20island&f=false

What a coincidence?


My next line of research is Otto Skorzeny, of Nazi Special Operations (did the rescue of Mussolini...). Anyway, Skorzeny's father in law was Hjalmar Schacht, Hitler's banker.  According to Mae Brussell, Hjalmar Schacht was a close friend of Clay Shaw.

http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Nazi%20Connection%20to%20JFK%20Assass.html

from above:

Clay Shaw, who was charged by New Orleans D.A. Jim Garrison with complicity in the JFK assassination, was a close friend of Hjalmar Schacht.

Here is an Israeli publication talking about how this Nazi, Otto Skorzeny, became an Israeli hitman.

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/the-strange-case-of-a-nazi-who-became-a-mossad-hitman-1.5423137

back to the Mae Brussell post link above:

" Michael Paine was a descendant of the Cabots on both sides. His cousin Thomas Dudley Cabot, former president of United Fruit, had offered their Gibraltar Steamship as a cover for the CIA during the Bay of Pigs. Another cousin was Alexander Cochrane Forbes, a director of United Fruit and trustee of Cabot, Cabot, and Forbes.
    Both Allen Dulles and John J. McCloy were part of the United Fruit team. The Paine family had links with circles of the OSS and the CIA.
    Ruth Hyde Paine maintained close ties with the Forbes families. Peter Dale Scott investigated the Paines, "the patrician Paine and Forbes families." A far cry from anybody's neighbor.
    Michael's education came as a tradition, third generation physicist at Harvard before working for Bell Helicopter."


Now a relatively recent release of the Otto Skorzeny Papers has led to the release of this book: The Skorzeny Papers: Evidence for the Plot to Kill JFK

https://www.amazon.com/Skorzeny-Papers-Evidence-Plot-Kill/dp/1510708413

It is an interesting theory based on the ties to Clay Shaw (the primary target of James Garrison)

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Re: Coup D'etat in 1963
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2019, 02:14:07 AM »

 

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