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Author Topic: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination  (Read 3457 times)

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2020, 05:04:03 PM »
Not to get too deep into the Weeds of political theory but Ruth Paine sounds like a Trotskyite.

The Trotskyite Left in modern times has come to be defined as the anti-Communist Left (At least Communism as practiced by the Soviets).

They are on the Left for the most part but suspicious of the Radical Left or the Authoritarian/Stalinist Left.

Some Trotskyites voluntarily informed the FBI about radical Left movements in the 1960s.

The co-Founder of Amnesty International, Luis Kutner, is probably the most high profile example of that sort of thing. He informed the FBI about radical Left groups and other things. He was also a Mob lawyer and knew Jack Ruby.

http://ourhiddenhistory.org/entry/luis-kutner-the-declassified-life-of-a-human-rights-icon

Also, didn’t Marina Oswald testify a few years after the assassination that she was told by the Secret Service that Ruth was close to the CIA?
Yeah, like you warned, we can get into the swamps of political theorizing and really pretend like we know more than we do <g>.

Trotsky, of course, was a Marxist. But he broke with Stalin - and Stanlinist Soviet Union - after Lenin's death and for that Stalin had him killed. Many of his followers were, similarly, anti-Stalin and anti-Soviet. But Trotsky was still a Marxist and an atheist and a believer in violent revolution. It seems to me that Ruth's worldview - as a Quaker pacifist - was steeped in religion, in the Christian social gospel cause of applying Christ's teachings to modern social problems like poverty and racism, et cetera. So while she may sympathize with the Trotsky view on economic justice and the exploitation of man, I don't think she'd embrace his call for the need for a violent overthrow of capitalist systems. Trotsky wanted to hang bankers from lamp posts; I think Ruth wanted to convert them to Christianity.

Having said that, maybe I'm full of it by labeling her politically as a liberal/leftist. Perhaps it was entirely religiously-based. But her pro-Sandinista work (as I see it) certainly indicates a political component of her behavior. I do think she and to a lesser extent Michael believed that our differences with the Soviets could be worked out through conversation and reasoning.  Perhaps that not liberal/left "goo goo" thinking but just a faith in human beings.

And if I recall, I think either she or Michael said that Oswald called himself a Trotskyite.

As to Ruth and the CIA: Yes, but I think Marina was warned by the Secret Service that Ruth was associated with the FBI and Marina apparently thought she said CIA. I think that's in the McMillan book. I'll try and find it.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 07:31:48 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #81 on: January 25, 2020, 06:00:10 PM »
Ruth Paine gives this account about her visits to Nicaragua and when she was accused of working for the CIA because of her involvement in the assassination (from the book "Mrs. Paine's Garage"):

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #82 on: January 25, 2020, 08:02:53 PM »
Michael Paine and Lee discussed capitalism and communism (from "Marina and Lee" by Priscilla Johnson McMillan):


Online John Tonkovich

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #83 on: January 25, 2020, 08:37:25 PM »
Thanks for the clarification, Mr. Galbraith.

Addendum:

Priscilla M applied to work for CIA.
Was U.S. Embassy translator, Moscow.
Marina and Lee was disavowed by..Marina.
Embellished her notes, story, when testifying before Warren Commision.
And more.
Definitely has an agenda.

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #84 on: January 25, 2020, 11:49:54 PM »
Yeah, like you warned, we can get into the swamps of political theorizing and really pretend like we know more than we do <g>.

Trotsky, of course, was a Marxist. But he broke with Stalin - and Stanlinist Soviet Union - after Lenin's death and for that Stalin had him killed. Many of his followers were, similarly, anti-Stalin and anti-Soviet. But Trotsky was still a Marxist and an atheist and a believer in violent revolution. It seems to me that Ruth's worldview - as a Quaker pacifist - was steeped in religion, in the Christian social gospel cause of applying Christ's teachings to modern social problems like poverty and racism, et cetera. So while she may sympathize with the Trotsky view on economic justice and the exploitation of man, I don't think she'd embrace his call for the need for a violent overthrow of capitalist systems. Trotsky wanted to hang bankers from lamp posts; I think Ruth wanted to convert them to Christianity.

Having said that, maybe I'm full of it by labeling her politically as a liberal/leftist. Perhaps it was entirely religiously-based. But her pro-Sandinista work (as I see it) certainly indicates a political component of her behavior. I do think she and to a lesser extent Michael believed that our differences with the Soviets could be worked out through conversation and reasoning.  Perhaps that not liberal/left "goo goo" thinking but just a faith in human beings.

Great points.

And what I meant is that “Trotskyite” has become a nickname in modern times used broadly to describe  people on the Left who are strongly anti-Socialist or anti-Communist. I wasn’t arguing that she was a Marxist or Communist. I don’t know her well enough to say what her specific views are but broadly based on what is known about her life and views I think she’s probably of the anti-Communist Left.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 11:52:30 PM by Jon Banks »

 

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