Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination

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Online Charles Collins

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Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« on: December 11, 2019, 08:09:59 PM »
A very recent, well done, video interview by Jeff Meek:


https://www.swtimes.com/news/20191204/ruth-paine-remembers-jfk-assassination
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:49:19 AM by Charles Collins »

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Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« on: December 11, 2019, 08:09:59 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2019, 05:21:38 PM »
A very recent, well done, video interview by Jeff Meek:

https://www.swtimes.com/news/20191204/ruth-paine-remembers-jfk-assassination

Paine: "I think it was a spur of the moment thing for him. That he could do this. I donít think he was shooting at Kennedy. He was shooting at the Presidency."

That was Bugliosi's theory too: i.e., that Oswald was shooting at what JFK represented - that is, the head of the political and economic systems that he repeatedly said he hated - and not specifically at JFK.

It is odd that we have very little about what Oswald thought about JFK. De Mohrenschildt said that Oswald expressed admiration for JFK, especially his civil rights proposals. Marina said that she believed that Oswald liked JFK too. But she later testified that she wasn't sure and that she made that judgment because he would read favorable stories about JFK to her. I'll just add parenthetically: if Marina (and or DeMohrenschildt) was coached or coerced into giving damning information about Oswald then why didn't "they" tell her/him to say he hated JFK?

Again, however, we have Oswald's repeated denunciations of America, of its political and economic structure. So why would he "like" the leader of the systems he detested? Plus: Cuba. Oswald admired Castro, he wanted to defect there. Sure, after the problems with the Cubans in Mexico City obtaining a visa he seemed to sour on Cuba. But why turn on Castro?

In any case, I think Oswald was aware of JFK's covert war on Cuba, perhaps even about the assassination plots against Castro (question: did he meet anyone in Mexico City who "inflamed" his dislike of JFK?). And that played a role - large or small - in his decision. He may have been driven in part by a desire for fame or for attacking the Presidency and not the President but I don't think we can take JFK the man out of his motivations.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 06:09:15 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2019, 05:21:38 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2019, 05:41:31 PM »
Paine: "I think it was a spur of the moment thing for him. That he could do this. I donít think he was shooting at Kennedy. He was shooting at the Presidency."

That was Bugliosi's theory too: i.e., that Oswald was shooting at what JFK represented - that is, the head of the political and economic systems that he repeatedly said he hated - and not specifically at JFK.

It is odd that we have very little about what Oswald thought about JFK. De Mohrenschildt said that Oswald expressed admiration for JFK, especially his civil rights proposals. Marina said that she believed that Oswald liked JFK too. But she later testified that she wasn't sure and that she made that judgment because he would read favorable stories about JFK to her. I'll just add parenthetically: if Marina (and or DeMohrenschildt) was coached or coerced into giving damning information about Oswald then why didn't "they" tell her/him to say he hated JFK?

Again, however, we have Oswald's repeated denunciations of America, of its political and economic structure. So what would he "like" the leader of the systems he detested? Plus: Cuba. Oswald admired Castro, he wanted to defect there. Sure, after the problems with the Cubans in Mexico City obtaining a visa he seemed to sour on Cuba. But why turn on Castro?

In any case, I think Oswald was aware of the cover war on Cuba, perhaps even about the assassination plots against Castro. And that played a role - large or small - in his decision. He may have been driven in part by a desire for fame or for attacking the Presidency and not the President but I don't think we can take JFK the man out of his motivations.

Good observations, thanks. I think also that Marina was showing signs of being more independent of LHO and that that was a factor in his actions. Ruth Paine said that Marina had told Lee that they wouldn't come pick him up when he arrived in Dallas from Mexico City. And that Lee had subsequently hitchhiked to her house Irving. Ruth also said that Marina had told Lee not to come out to her house the weekend following the long holiday weekend because Marina felt that Lee was overstaying his welcome there. And, I don't think Ruth mentioned it in this interview, but Marina had refused to agree to move back in with Lee when Lee had asked on the evening of 1121/63.

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2019, 05:41:31 PM »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2019, 06:17:50 PM »
Paine: "I think it was a spur of the moment thing for him. That he could do this. I donít think he was shooting at Kennedy. He was shooting at the Presidency."

That was Bugliosi's theory too: i.e., that Oswald was shooting at what JFK represented - that is, the head of the political and economic systems that he repeatedly said he hated - and not specifically at JFK.

It is odd that we have very little about what Oswald thought about JFK. De Mohrenschildt said that Oswald expressed admiration for JFK, especially his civil rights proposals. Marina said that she believed that Oswald liked JFK too. But she later testified that she wasn't sure and that she made that judgment because he would read favorable stories about JFK to her. I'll just add parenthetically: if Marina (and or DeMohrenschildt) was coached or coerced into giving damning information about Oswald then why didn't "they" tell her/him to say he hated JFK?

Again, however, we have Oswald's repeated denunciations of America, of its political and economic structure. So what would he "like" the leader of the systems he detested? Plus: Cuba. Oswald admired Castro, he wanted to defect there. Sure, after the problems with the Cubans in Mexico City obtaining a visa he seemed to sour on Cuba. But why turn on Castro?

In any case, I think Oswald was aware of the cover war on Cuba, perhaps even about the assassination plots against Castro. And that played a role - large or small - in his decision. He may have been driven in part by a desire for fame or for attacking the Presidency and not the President but I don't think we can take JFK the man out of his motivations.

JFK was the ultimate 'somebody'
Oswald was the ultimate 'nobody'

'Spur of the moment'
>>> Cool

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2019, 06:17:50 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2019, 06:36:55 PM »
JFK was the ultimate 'somebody'
Oswald was the ultimate 'nobody'

'Spur of the moment'
>>> Cool


It was an opportunity that fell into his lap. And his plan of the surprise ambush was a good one.

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2019, 06:36:55 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2019, 07:07:56 PM »
Good observations, thanks. I think also that Marina was showing signs of being more independent of LHO and that that was a factor in his actions. Ruth Paine said that Marina had told Lee that they wouldn't come pick him up when he arrived in Dallas from Mexico City. And that Lee had subsequently hitchhiked to her house Irving. Ruth also said that Marina had told Lee not to come out to her house the weekend following the long holiday weekend because Marina felt that Lee was overstaying his welcome there. And, I don't think Ruth mentioned it in this interview, but Marina had refused to agree to move back in with Lee when Lee had asked on the evening of 1121/63.
Marina told the HSCA that their plans were to move into a new apartment in another "week or two". And that she didn't agree to move in that weekend but that they would get back together later. So I think the explanation that the reason he left almost all of his money and his wedding ring was because they were splitting up is incorrect.

From her testimony:

Marina: "We were separated not for the reasons of having a divorce or something like that, it twas because of the financial difficulties and there was only one way we could manage to save some money, if we lived apart. He wanted to come back; we were planning to get together as soon as possible, so he did mention the apartment [the day before the assassination]."

And this:
Q.: Do you remember this particular discussion the day before the assassination about him renting an apartment in Dallas?
Marina: I think so.
Q.: Do you recall if he said when in particular he would rent this apartment?
M: The location, no.
Q. Not the location but when he would rent it?
M: In the very near future, maybe a week or two.

So from this account she said she had not agreed to move back with him that weekend but that she would later, in another week or two.

Y'know, for a CIA agent Oswald sure didn't have much money. I guess having no car, no house, no phone and not much of anything else was his cover. Because in conspiracy world everything indicates a conspiracy.

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2019, 07:07:56 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2019, 07:54:50 PM »
Marina told the HSCA that their plans were to move into a new apartment in another "week or two". And that she didn't agree to move in that weekend but that they would get back together later. So I think the explanation that the reason he left almost all of his money and his wedding ring was because they were splitting up is incorrect.

From her testimony:

Marina: "We were separated not for the reasons of having a divorce or something like that, it twas because of the financial difficulties and there was only one way we could manage to save some money, if we lived apart. He wanted to come back; we were planning to get together as soon as possible, so he did mention the apartment [the day before the assassination]."

And this:
Q.: Do you remember this particular discussion the day before the assassination about him renting an apartment in Dallas?
Marina: I think so.
Q.: Do you recall if he said when in particular he would rent this apartment?
M: The location, no.
Q. Not the location but when he would rent it?
M: In the very near future, maybe a week or two.

So from this account she said she had not agreed to move back with him that weekend but that she would later, in another week or two.

Y'know, for a CIA agent Oswald sure didn't have much money. I guess having no car, no house, no phone and not much of anything else was his cover. Because in conspiracy world everything indicates a conspiracy.

Well, there you have it then. LHO the innocent must have been out looking for apartment-for-rent signs when he encountered Tippit. And he left almost all his money with Marina because he didn't want to be tempted to put any money down on an apartment until he had a chance to discuss it with Marina. He was just that kind of guy... right?  ;)

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2019, 07:54:50 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2019, 10:18:10 PM »
So from this account she said she had not agreed to move back with him that weekend but that she would later, in another week or two.

I donít think thatís accurate. There was never an agreement for her to move back in with him.

Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband give any reason for coming home on Thursday?

Mrs. OSWALD. He said that he was lonely because he hadn't come the preceding weekend, and he wanted to make his peace with me.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you say anything to him then?

Mrs. OSWALD. He tried to talk to me but I would not answer him, and he was very upset.

Mr. RANKIN. Were you upset with him?

Mrs. OSWALD. I was angry, of course. He was not angry--he was upset. I was angry. He tried very hard to please me. He spent quite a bit of time putting away diapers and played with the children on the street.

Mr. RANKIN. How did you indicate to him that you were angry with him?

Mrs. OSWALD. By not talking to him.

Mr. RANKIN. And how did he show that he was upset?

Mrs. OSWALD. He was upset over the fact that I would not answer him. He tried to start a conversation with me several times, but I would not answer. And he said that he didn't want me to be angry at him because this upsets him.

On that day, he suggested that we rent an apartment in Dallas. He said that he was tired of living alone and perhaps the reason for my being so angry was the fact that we were not living together. That if I want to he would rent an apartment in Dallas tomorrow--that he didn't want me to remain with Ruth any longer, but wanted me to live with him in Dallas.

He repeated this not once but several times, but I refused. And he said that once again I was preferring my friends to him, and that I didn't need him.

Mr. RANKIN. What did you say to that?

Mrs. OSWALD. I said it would be better if I remained with Ruth until the holidays, he would come, and we would all meet together. That this was better because while he was living alone and I stayed with Ruth, we were spending less money. And I told him to buy me a washing machine, because two children it became too difficult to wash by hand.

Mr. RANKIN. What did he say to that?

Mrs. OSWALD. He said he would buy me a washing machine.

Mr. RANKIN. What did you say to that?

Mrs. OSWALD. Thank you. That it would be better if he bought something for himself--that I would manage.

Mr. RANKIN. Did this seem to make him more upset, when you suggested that he wait about getting an apartment for you to live in?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He then stopped talking and sat down and watched television and then went to bed. I went to bed later. It was about 9 o'clock when he went to sleep. I went to sleep about 11:30. But it seemed to me that he was not really asleep. But I didn't talk to him.

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2019, 10:18:10 PM »

Offline Joe Mannix

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2019, 10:36:55 PM »
JFK was the ultimate 'somebody'
Oswald was the ultimate 'nobody'

'Spur of the moment'
>>> Cool

The most amazing thing Ozzy did was make his bullets perform u-turns and cause them to sound like they came from knoll.  Nearly everyone was tricked into thinking that the shots came from there.

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2019, 10:36:55 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2019, 12:00:51 AM »
Well, there you have it then. LHO the innocent must have been out looking for apartment-for-rent signs when he encountered Tippit. And he left almost all his money with Marina because he didn't want to be tempted to put any money down on an apartment until he had a chance to discuss it with Marina. He was just that kind of guy... right?  ;)
Hah, don't be surprised if that isn't suggested by one of the Oswald defenders. More than one.

And he had his revolver and extra bullets because the apartment he was looking into was in a dangerous part of town.

Look, Oswald shot JFK. Maybe he was manipulated, maybe he was used, maybe he had some help (or thought he was going to get some). But the evidence is powerful for me that he shot JFK. And any alternate explanation of what happened that day simply don't make sense. Put that together and one has to start with Oswald shooting JFK: then argue/suggest a conspiracy from there. Otherwise one is just falling for "the wish is the father of the idea." That is: You want to believe in a conspiracy.

 

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