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Author Topic: A Candidate For Prayer Person?  (Read 9978 times)

Offline Chris Davidson

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Re: A Candidate For Prayer Person?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2019, 05:28:48 PM »
Friends, now that Mr Oswald has been found in the Wiegman film-----------



-----------we can rule him out as Prayer Person in WiegmanThumb1:

As I have argued elsewhere, Prayer Person in Wiegman is in fact Mr Bill Shelley.

But! Who is Prayer Person in Darnell?



It's not Mr Shelley, that's for sure.

Could it be Mr Oswald? It's just possible, though I now strongly doubt it (for a reason I won't go into here... oh alright then: white tshirt!).

The problem is, no other Depository employee fits the bill.  :'(

However! Here's a new candidate: Mr Ken DuVall.

 Thumb1:
Did you eliminate other possible causes of the Wiegman double images?
How about "camera shake".
If interested, starting at 6min27sec in, https://www.digital-photo-secrets.com/tip/129/the-top-4-causes-of-blurry-photos-and-how-to-fix-them/

If you start from the right hand side of the Wiegman sequence provided, which is earlier in the film sequence, from right to left (3 frames), the shake is slowly steadying while the prayerperson image in the shadows becomes more in focus, albeit still in shadow.
Same concept in the two left-hand frames.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Candidate For Prayer Person?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2019, 05:45:11 PM »

Mr. & Mrs. Kenneth Boyd DuVall, touring the White House in 1963

Though there is a vast contrast in difference between Mr. DuVall and Prayer Man, at least Mr. Ford presented a plausible candidate, rather than the horse manure Mr. Doyle tried to pass off as more than mere masquerading "research".  As Clint Eastwood would say, he's a legend in his own mind...

Again, Mr. Ford, appreciate, admire and respect your exemplary research, in spite of our respective placements of the wrongly accused standing outside in front of his workplace during the P. Parade...

Great thanks for posting this 1963 photograph of Mr DuVall!  Thumb1:

Not sure we can write off his being Prayer Man from this...



Mr DuVall is in sunlight here, but his hair on the left side (i.e. right as we look) looks quite dark (compare the effect of the sun on his wife's dark hair!).

If Mr Duvall's hair was not quite so tightly cut on 11/22/63, and if we are seeing Prayer Man's head in profile, then this could be a match IMO.

 Thumb1:

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Candidate For Prayer Person?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2019, 05:49:29 PM »
Did you eliminate other possible causes of the Wiegman double images?
How about "camera shake".
(~Snip~)
If you start from the right hand side of the Wiegman sequence provided, which is earlier in the film sequence, from right to left (3 frames), the shake is slowly steadying while the prayerperson image in the shadows becomes more in focus, albeit still in shadow.
Same concept in the two left-hand frames.

There is of course some camera shake & motion blur in these frames, but the phenomenon in multiple Lovelady@HigherElevation frames of a double head, one higher than the other, only attaches itself to Mr Lovelady------------the person in the doorway who has a 'shadow' down his side that (despite the best efforts of you & others, Mr Davidson) cannot be explained as a natural shadow.

If this were in the Zapruder film, you would be all over it!

Thumb1:

Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: A Candidate For Prayer Person?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2019, 06:01:10 PM »
Nothing more than intimidation, Mr. Trotter, especially when the safety and well being of one's loved ones are at stake/risk. Courage doesn't grow on trees, Mr. Trotter, especially when the risk far outweigh the rewards.

We all know what becomes of anyone who dares to come forward with the truth, especially if it involves seeing say the late John Gotti mete out mob "justice". Suddenly, amid a real paralyzing fear, no one saw anything. Same paralyzing fear  is evident here in this case as well. Those people out on the steps there were essentially made an offer they could not refuse. It's that simple really.

The wrongly accused was right out there with them, how else could he have known precisely where Bill Shelley stood? Anyone genuinely up on the sixth floor and/or 2nd floor could not see Bill Shelly's specific position back in the landing.

 The wrongly accused was framed.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 06:16:33 PM by Alan J. Ford »

Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: A Candidate For Prayer Person?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2019, 06:42:56 PM »
Great thanks for posting this 1963 photograph of Mr DuVall!  Thumb1:

Not sure we can write off his being Prayer Man from this...



Mr DuVall is in sunlight here, but his hair on the left side (i.e. right as we look) looks quite dark (compare the effect of the sun on his wife's dark hair!).

If Mr Duvall's hair was not quite so tightly cut on 11/22/63, and if we are seeing Prayer Man's head in profile, then this could be a match IMO.

 Thumb1:

[/img][/img] <----- made several good faith efforts to insert a much clearer photo for review, Mr. Ford, with any good fortune my forum benefactor, who has already aided me twice now w/posting a photo will complete the hat trick. Thanks in advance, cheers.

Otherwise, click on the following link for a much clearer Prayer Man comparison ---->

http://jfkact.org/?p=940

Scroll down to 3rd image. Unlike Mr. DuVall, Prayer Man does not present with a forehead shaped "V".
« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 06:54:05 PM by Alan J. Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Candidate For Prayer Person?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2019, 07:24:19 PM »
[/img][/img] <----- made several good faith efforts to insert a much clearer photo for review, Mr. Ford, with any good fortune my forum benefactor, who has already aided me twice now w/posting a photo will complete the hat trick. Thanks in advance, cheers.

Otherwise, click on the following link for a much clearer Prayer Man comparison ---->

http://jfkact.org/?p=940

Scroll down to 3rd image. Unlike Mr. DuVall, Prayer Man does not present with a forehead shaped "V".

Hmmm, to be honest, Mr Ford, I'm not sure this enhancement isn't adding information not in the original image:



If Mr Duvall in shadow and with somewhat longer hair------------



------------were to rotate into near-full profile, I think he might well appear this way:



 Thumb1:

Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: A Candidate For Prayer Person?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2019, 08:48:49 PM »
Akin to our respective placement of the wrongly accused outside of the TSBD-in the front entrance of his workplace during the P. Parade, Mr.  Ford, we'll also have to respectfully disagree upon Mr. DuVall as a candidate for Prayer Man as well.

That said, I am grateful to you for bringing some looooong overdue attention to the front entrance of the TSBD, and its occupants standing there.

If I get a response to my inquiry w/Mr. DuVall's employer, Central Freight, in respect to the uniform colour(s) scheme of their drivers covering Mr. DuVall's employment period, will certainly retrace my steps back here to share that development here. In the photos to date we have of Mr. DuVall, courtesy of his surviving daughter's FB page,  it's not in character for him to present as a shabby dressed-down warehouse-man, with torn/ripped clothing left untucked/untidy.

We also have to take into account...hold that thought brb...Fido!!!!!

*Continuation...

My apologies, we rescued our pet dog from an animal shelter years ago, and there are times when he displays behaviour as if he has a few stubborn mules in his ancestry. As I was saying before, we also have to take into account the CE 1381 statements of the 69 TSBD employees, where in chorus all said they did not see any strangers that afternoon, which begs the question even IF Mr. DuVall was acquainted with several of them via his occasional delivery duties, How do we explain away the statements of the vast majority not acquainted with him? as they ventured back up the stairs to return inside the building...

Surely at least one clerk-typist, if not two dozen more working in a private office in the building void of seeing any deliveries being made, would have made mention of him as a stranger.  Not even 1 out of 69...that's very telling.











« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 09:19:55 PM by Alan J. Ford »

Offline Chris Davidson

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Re: A Candidate For Prayer Person?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2019, 11:21:53 PM »
There is of course some camera shake & motion blur in these frames, but the phenomenon in multiple Lovelady@HigherElevation frames of a double head, one higher than the other, only attaches itself to Mr Lovelady------------the person in the doorway who has a 'shadow' down his side that (despite the best efforts of you & others, Mr Davidson) cannot be explained as a natural shadow.

If this were in the Zapruder film, you would be all over it!

Thumb1:
I asked if you tried to eliminate other possibilities.
For instance: De-interlacing along with Inverse telecining.
After that, stabilizing five consecutive frames and then creating a back/forth loop to compare Lovelady's characteristic movements with other objects within the same five frames.
From memory, my initial re-entry into this foray was the video posting of the cop stepping out of the shadow with a vertical shadow across his back and horizontal across his helmet.
I did not say anything about how far he was from the west wall or what time it was.
In fact, I have not stated an opinion on either the shadow or the double-head since then.
I have supplied examples for others if they wanted to form their own opinions.
You seem to have forgotten my railing gif that clearly showed which side the black hatted lady was on.
Also, a graphic showing the distance between the railing and the west wall(at 12:30, according to James H) relating to where that shadow falls.
Are there other sources of light within that alcove?



Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Candidate For Prayer Person?
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2019, 01:41:59 AM »
Akin to our respective placement of the wrongly accused outside of the TSBD-in the front entrance of his workplace during the P. Parade, Mr.  Ford, we'll also have to respectfully disagree upon Mr. DuVall as a candidate for Prayer Man as well.

That said, I am grateful to you for bringing some looooong overdue attention to the front entrance of the TSBD, and its occupants standing there.

If I get a response to my inquiry w/Mr. DuVall's employer, Central Freight, in respect to the uniform colour(s) scheme of their drivers covering Mr. DuVall's employment period, will certainly retrace my steps back here to share that development here. In the photos to date we have of Mr. DuVall, courtesy of his surviving daughter's FB page,  it's not in character for him to present as a shabby dressed-down warehouse-man, with torn/ripped clothing left untucked/untidy.

We also have to take into account...hold that thought brb...Fido!!!!!

Sounds good------and thank you!  Thumb1:

Quote
My apologies, we rescued our pet dog from an animal shelter years ago, and there are times when he displays behaviour as if he has a few stubborn mules in his ancestry. As I was saying before, we also have to take into account the CE 1381 statements of the 69 TSBD employees, where in chorus all said they did not see any strangers that afternoon, which begs the question even IF Mr. DuVall was acquainted with several of them via his occasional delivery duties, How do we explain away the statements of the vast majority not acquainted with him? as they ventured back up the stairs to return inside the building...

Surely at least one clerk-typist, if not two dozen more working in a private office in the building void of seeing any deliveries being made, would have made mention of him as a stranger.  Not even 1 out of 69...that's very telling.

I agree it's odd that no one would have remembered Mr DuVall's presence on the steps, but if he took shipments from the building on a regular basis then he will at least have been a familiar face and so not one to stand out as a 'stranger' to employees.

Again I have to say the possibility of a visual match between Mr Duvall and Prayer Man is rather striking. And I doubt he would have worn a suit while picking up shipments from a book depository. He was a truck driver, not a clerk.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 02:19:36 AM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Candidate For Prayer Person?
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2019, 02:04:07 AM »
I asked if you tried to eliminate other possibilities.
For instance: De-interlacing along with Inverse telecining.
After that, stabilizing five consecutive frames and then creating a back/forth loop to compare Lovelady's characteristic movements with other objects within the same five frames.

Of course I studied the frames long and hard, Mr Davidson, looking to see if this curious phenemenon of
------------double head
------------the second at higher elevation and variable relative position
------------across multiple frames
attached itself to anyone other than the person to whom an impossible 'shadow' had attached itself.

It didn't-----------and still doesn't! It is unique to the uniquely magic-shadowed Mr Lovelady:



Quote
From memory, my initial re-entry into this foray was the video posting of the cop stepping out of the shadow with a vertical shadow across his back and horizontal across his helmet.
I did not say anything about how far he was from the west wall or what time it was.

You mean this?



A cop on the landing in a completely different location to Mr Lovelady here?



When I asked you to get back and illuminate us as to whether you felt this illustrated anything specific... crickets. Giving false hope to those determined to explain away the 'shadow' down Mr Lovelady as a natural shadow.

Quote
In fact, I have not stated an opinion on either the shadow or the double-head since then.
I have supplied examples for others if they wanted to form their own opinions.
You seem to have forgotten my railing gif that clearly showed which side the black hatted lady was on.

Indeed I do------------and, if you were unhappy with Mr Mytton's misuse of that GIF, you hid it well!

Quote
Are there other sources of light within that alcove?

A ceiling light that has no bearing whatsoever on this issue:



Mr Davidson, as I have stated multiple times here, I wonder at your visual archive and your facility with images. But I have to ask: how can you still not have developed a view as to whether the 'shadow' down Mr Lovelady is natural or not?

 Thumb1:

 

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