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Author Topic: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.  (Read 2444 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #100 on: December 02, 2019, 07:05:03 AM »
So, no evidence that his jacket and shirt were equally bunched at the time of the back shot, but oh look here are some YouTube clips from Star Trek and Terminator movies.

You have deflected to an aspect of the bunching that I have not noticed here today. And I'm still not clear whether or not you intended to include/not include the possible manipulation of the bunch in that 3.3 second gap available between Croft & the twofer.

Point out where I used the terminator guy here today. I haven't used that reconstituting melted bad guy here today since this about the bunching R&R thing. The melted bad guy video is meant as a symbol of reuniting the aspects of the case rather than trying to keep individual said aspects separated.

EDIT TYPO
3:29AM EST: Dec 04
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 08:30:10 AM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #100 on: December 02, 2019, 07:05:03 AM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #101 on: December 03, 2019, 02:46:29 AM »
33.3 seconds. Seriously, Chapman? So you think your “two-fer” happened on Stemmons Freeway then?

Online Tom Scully

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #102 on: December 03, 2019, 03:45:04 AM »
Ten years after the coup d e'tat in Dallas, the HSCA determined that President Kennedy had been murdered by a group ( unnamed) of conspirators.  There has been ship loads of evidence uncovered that lead to the undeniable conclusion that Lee Oswald was merely a hapless kid who fancied himself to be a budding Herb Philbrick, who allowed himself to be suckered into the role of scapegoat .   

All of us have learned of the many nefarious and devious plots hatched by the CIA in their efforts to stir up trouble and start wars.   There can be no denial of these facts.   So why do some folks refuse to believe that Lee Oswald was simply a "Patsy", who was used by US intelligence agents?  Do those folks truly believe the Warren Report?   ( It hard to to believe that any intelligent reasoning adult would embrace the Warren Report as the truth)  Do they know the truth, and simply lack the guts to face the truth....or are they in reality agents of the conspiracy?   Still struggling after all these years  to try to keep the truth hidden.

You apprise your readers with black or white. Prominent challengers of the WR may have done more harm than good, especially early ones, Penn Jones for example.
Garrison, Fetzer, and Lifton, followed by John Armstrong, may have done even more than Jones to misinform, to stir up, you, for example.



http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/TV-Radio%20Transcripts%20From%20Trunzo%20Russ/WFLD-TV/67-07-11.pdf



Monte Lemann  -  and spouse Mildred Crumb Lyons Lemann .........Adele Ziegler Baldwin Raworth and brother Herbert Ziegler
Sons:...…………………………………...Daughter: ....................................Sons: ........................................Daughter: Mrs Jim Garrison
Stephen B Lemann ………………...Mildred Lyons Baldwin - and spouse David G Baldwin
Thomas B Lemann ....................................................................Edward Baldwin..
Son:
Nicholas B Lemann

Quote
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1974/2/6/the-rise-and-fall-of-big/
The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G.
Politics
By Nicholas Lemann,
February 6, 1974

ONE OF THE OLDEST saws about Southern politics runs something like this: If only a politician in the South could run with the united support of blacks and blue-collar whites, he would be unbeatable. And since he wouldn't be tied to the rich whites who control the South, he could really change things. Only a very few Southern politicians have been able to put together this mythical coalition, but Jim Garrison, the six-and-a-half foot tall New Orleans district attorney who lost his third reelection campaign in December, remained politically powerful in New Orleans for years with a loyal black and blue-collar white constituency. ...
......

Quote
https://jfkfacts.org/provocative-prolific-joan-mellen/#comment-869223
......
Quote
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen
Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK’s Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006. Tyler Weaver provided the introduction, and the interview was conducted by Rex Bradford.
…….
REX: I – I think –
JOAN: – when (Atty Edward) Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother (David) worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people….
.....
.........In the course of attempting to determine if my new fact checked research details were actually original, I found identical details, by author of a biography of Clay Shaw,
Donald H Carpenter.-




Quote
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/806/603/1747985/
Russo v. Conde Nast Publications, 806 F. Supp. 603 (E.D. La. 1992)

US District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana - 806 F. Supp. 603 (E.D. La. 1992)
November 17, 1992
......UNDISPUTED FACTUAL BACKGROUND:
In its January, 1992 issue, GQ Magazine published an article entitled "The Case Against Jim Garrison" (hereafter the "GQ article"). The GQ article was written by Nicholas B. Lemann, a New Orleans native and winner of numerous awards for his books and articles. The GQ article was a personal memoir[1] of Lemann's recollections of growing up in New Orleans during District Attorney Jim Garrison's prosecution of Clay Shaw for allegedly conspiring to assassinate JFK.
The 1991 movie release, JFK sparked renewed interest in the assassination as well as the prosecution itself of Clay Shaw. The film was purportedly based on Garrison's book, On the Trail of Assassins, and sympathetically portrayed Garrison.
The GQ article published by Lemann took a different slant, expressing his view that Shaw's prosecution was built on flimsy evidence and was a tremendous embarrassment to the city.[2] The thrust of Lemann's article was his opinion countering that expressed by Stone in his film release JFK, to wit:
......

Quote
The FBI, JFK and JIm Garrison
By James DiEugenio, Wednesday at 12:26 PM in JFK Assassination Debate

This was my presentation at CAPA.
I had not been to one of these in about three years.  But since Oliver went, so did I.  As most of you know, I have been working on Kennedy's foreign policy for about the last 5-6 years.  Since Oliver was there, I switched back to my old topic.  There are some things in this that I had never brought up at any conference.
 
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-fbi-jfk-and-jim-garrison

.pdf version : https://kennedysandking.com/images/pdf/FBI-JFK-Garrison-2019.pdf
The FBI, JFK and Jim Garrison
CAPA November in Dallas, 11/22/2019
Jim DiEugenio with help from Malcolm Blunt



The "research community," ignores that some of the "leading lights" are commercialized, self-important incompetents.
The "rank and file," the consumers of the "feed," such as the excerpt above, presented in Dallas less than two weeks ago, have only themselves to blame, and they indicate by a near universal reluctance to even seriously discuss it, that they like it "just fine," that Garrison conned everybody, except for Clay Shaw.

Blame author Donald Carpenter, take a bow, the silence will continue. No increase in the body of verifiable knowledge is likely until readers say, no, this is BS, enough already, with the prima donna posturing. Readers let them get away with this.

Walt, you are not part of the solution, but you could change that.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 06:26:29 AM by Tom Scully »

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #102 on: December 03, 2019, 03:45:04 AM »

Online Tom Scully

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #103 on: December 03, 2019, 05:16:47 AM »
Stephen B. Lemann, uncle of Nicholas B. Lemann and step-brother of Mildred Lyons Baldwin, and owner of more than ten percent interest in WDSU,
described by Garrison as WDSU outside counsel distributing "CIA funds".....

Quote
http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?…d=176&tab=page
2of2 Garrison 06/67 letter to FCC comm. Rosel H. Hyde
(Top of right side column)
…It should be added that the last described endeavor has been accomplished not by members of the station (WDSU) itself, but by an attorney closely connected with the station who has previously been known to disperse funds in the New Orleans area in behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency….

December 21, 1991, JFK, the movie, is released in theaters.:
January, 1992 issue of GQ Magazine:

Quote
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=6761&search=lemann#relPageId=152&tab=page
The Case Against Jim Garrison
The ex-D.A.’s theory on who murdered JFK
reassessed and shot full of holes
By Nicholas Lemann….

No disclosure in Nicholas’s rebuttal to Zachary Sklar, or from Sklar about Lemann’s conflicts/background:
Were Sklar and Stone unaware of critic Nicholas's background because Garrison kept the editor of his biography, Zachary Sklar, as well as Oliver Stone, in the dark?

Quote
JFK: The Book of the Film : the Documented Screenplay
By Oliver Stone, Zachary Sklar

…..Evidently GQ has forgotten one of the fundamental rules of American journalism: Give the readers both sides of the story. The case for Jim Garrison is not to be found in your pages. Lemann’s glib charges are so sweeping that it’s impossible to respond to all of them in a letter. I suggest anyone interested in Garrison’s case read On the Trail of the Assassins, the former New Orleans district attorney’s own account of his investigation. As the editor of this book, and co-screenwriter of Oliver Stone’s JFK, I take issue with several of Lemann’s unfounded assertions…..

Here's that Dallas priest, again.... In April, 2016, I received an email from the author Gayle Nix Jackson, whose grandfather made the Nix film. She had contacted Walter Machann and he had agreed to meet with her. He was located through details in his mother's obituary in DMN.
She asked me for suggestions of questions to ask the former priest. The meeting took place but he refused to discuss anything related to the period before he worked on foreign assignment for the U.N. in Asia.

Quote
http://jfkcountercoup2.blogspot.com/2018/09/walter-machann-interview-excerpts.html
Monday, September 24, 2018
Walter Machann Interview Excerpts

Gayle Nix Jackson's Interview Excerpts with Walter Machann.
For the complete interview - see "Pieces of the Puzzle" (by Gail Nix Jackson 2017)

GAYLE: How did you become the head of the Dallas Catholic Cuban Relief Program?

……The problem here is that the official Warren Commission records indicate that it was not Hosty, but Secret Service Inspector Thomas Kelley, who questioned Machann in New Orleans about the Odio incident. According to these documents, the investigator had Machann call Sylvia Odio on the phone and ask her once again about her visitors. And according to the official report, Odio then said one of the visitors was Rogelio Cisneros, but she later denied saying that.
And then we don’t hear from Machann for many years. When I tracked Machann’s family to Texas and talked to his sister on the phone, she said her brother was in Thailand, where he moved to after leaving the priesthood. I imagined he had continued his theological musings and became a monk, but boy was I wrong.
Machann says that, “My first real job other than being a priest or throwing a newspaper route was working at the Mental Health Halfway house (in New Orleans).”

World Travel—Thailand
After leaving New Orleans, Machann says, “I worked in Florida for a few years in the mental health field. I didn’t like the commercialization of Florida. I lived in West Palm Beach where the rich people were … I traveled throughout Russia with a travel group. It was a break in the Cold War. They wouldn’t let you read just any book, so you had to be careful which books you carried. I bought a Volkswagen in Hamburg in 1968 and drove all the way through the Baltic States, the Czech Republic and the Coast of Spain. I was sleeping in the car and eating just to stay alive. I ran out of money and had to come back home.”
“When I was in New York, I was having a hard time finding a job. I had put in applications to many overseas jobs and WHO just happened to hire me. I moved to Thailand and lived there many years. In fact, I had my son there. Yes, I have a son … Unfortunately, his mother died when he was seven of dengue fever. He basically grew up as an orphan. He had no mother. But he always was interested in philosophy as well. I don’t know how much of who we are is genetic, environment or education, but he was mesmerized by Greek books at a very young age … He did a few tours in Iraq and came back a different man. He tried to find peace here, but eventually moved back to Thailand. I’m going to see him soon.”
“I haven’t talked much about my low points in life, because you don’t go through traumatic changes in your life without discussing your philosophy, emotions, mental state and the like. My wife dying forced me to come back to Texas. That’s when I also found that in life after 40, you become unemployable in the states. My friends tried to get me jobs. Incidentally, one was a medical director at UT Southwestern. He hated the Kennedys. What came out was, he had a tremendous hatred for the Kennedys even though he was from the north. I was kind of shocked. He was one of these New England Harvard graduates, I don’t know. But I knew I didn’t want to work there.”….

May 26, 1957 DMN article








Quote
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/5347-father-mcchann-and-odios/?tab=comments#comment-44700
William Kelly - Posted November 9, 2005
….
Here's some excerpts from Lafontaine's book regarding McChann, and have read Maryanne Sullivan's book, "Kennedy Ripples - A True Love Story" (1994, San Clemente, Calf.), which Lafontaine calls the "Harlequin Romance" version of the Kennedy assassination, which follows McChann to New Orleans and Florida, but not to Tailand.
Peter Dale Scott has been spending a lot of time in Thailand, and he's awaiting my review of Max Holland's KAT, and I'll ask him about McChann.
Bill Kelly
Bary Kampjfk3@yahoo.com
Machann, Walter Michael, Father –
Also spelled phonetically as MaChann, McCann, McKann and McChan.
From: Oswald Talked – The New Evidence in the JFK Assassination
by Ray and Mary La Fontaine, (Pelican Publishing Co. , Gretna, 1996).
[p.264-265]: “The last time Father Machann was seen in his public role as shepherd of the city’s Catholic exile community was the Tuesday night of October 1, 1963. On that evening, he and other prominent members of the resettlement committee had shared the stage of Highland Park Town Hall with a guest speaker, John Martino, a fifty-two-year-old American and Mafia associate who was on a Bircher-paid tour to talk about his recently published book, ‘I Was Castro’s Prisoner.’ Martino had been imprisoned in Cuba for some thirty-nine months (during which time he befriended Silvia Odio’s father, Amador), and his three-hour book talk dwelled on the barbarism of his confinement by the revolutionary regime – balm to the ars of the gathered refugees and their circle of benefactors on the Town Hall stage…”

......
.........“…investigator Harold Weisberg had also heard that Father Machann entered ‘a home to rest’ following the assassination.”
Page 251: “….A few weeks before the assassination (Fr. Walter M. Machann) had mysteriously dropped out of sight, perhaps from a breakdown, in the city where he had been a lifelong resident. Some weeks later, after the assassination, he quietly left town and has not lived in Dallas since, though returning occasionally to visit his mother. He was last seen in (1993) in Bangkok. (Machann’s mother told Mary in a recent interview that he was visited by the Secret Service or other government investigators as recently as 1992 or 1990.).”
“But in the spring of 1964, Father Machann hadn’t yet made it to Bangkok. That April, apparently at he behest of the Western general counsel J. Lee Rankin, the Secret Service had launched an all-out search for the unusual padre, who was rumored to have bedded a number of women parishioners during his denture as assistant pastor at the Catholic church in east Dallas. After agents failed even to identify the father in Miami (where he had received his training as a Cuban refugee adviser), Secret Service inspector Thomas Kelly managed to locate Machann in New Orleans, interviewing him on Thursday, April 30.”
“The former Dallas priest (he was now on indefinite leave) had been attending classes at LOYOLA UNIVERSITY, and was, as he told Kelly, a frequent visitor of Silvia’s uncle, Dr. Agustin Guitart, a physics professor at the university. Cuitart, it may be recalled, happened also to be a friend of Carlos Bringuier’s, and had attended the New Orleans court hearing of Lee Harvey Oswald following his ‘street scuffle’ with Bringuier and two other members of the local chapter of the Student Revolutionary Directorate (DRE) the previous summer.”
“It wasn’t, of course Machann’s vow-breaking proclivities that interested assassination investigators like Kelley, but the role he was said to have played from 1961 through most of 1963 as chaplain of a Dallas group assisting Cuban refugees; for if rumors were flying concerning the priest’s sexual liaisons, they were even more rampant on a more relevant matter, the possible participation of Cubans – whether pro- or antic-Castro one couldn’t say – in the assassination of the president. On the latter matter, Machann had been in a position to be an invaluable informant.” .....

« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 06:04:38 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Mark A. Oblazney

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #104 on: December 03, 2019, 07:49:31 AM »
Stephen B. Lemann, uncle of Nicholas B. Lemann and step-brother of Mildred Lyons Baldwin, and owner of more than ten percent interest in WDSU,
described by Garrison as WDSU outside counsel distributing "CIA funds".....

December 21, 1991, JFK, the movie, is released in theaters.:
January, 1992 issue of GQ Magazine:

No disclosure in Nicholas’s rebuttal to Zachary Sklar, or from Sklar about Lemann’s conflicts/background:
Were Sklar and Stone unaware of critic Nicholas's background because Garrison kept the editor of his biography, Zachary Sklar, as well as Oliver Stone, in the dark?

Here's that Dallas priest, again.... In April, 2016, I received an email from the author Gayle Nix Jackson, whose grandfather made the Nix film. She had contacted Walter Machann and he had agreed to meet with her. He was located through details in his mother's obituary in DMN.
She asked me for suggestions of questions to ask the former priest. The meeting took place but he refused to discuss anything related to the period before he worked on foreign assignment for the U.N. in Asia.

May 26, 1957 DMN article








Bless me, Fadduh, for I have sinned, and have never given a confession, coz' nobody listens anyway.

Great findings (again), Tom.  Oh, bytheway....... I see Cardinal Stone has anointed St. Judyth of Bradenton with his Most Holy Oil (from his scalp, maybe?)  Got Brylcreem?

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #104 on: December 03, 2019, 07:49:31 AM »

Online Tom Scully

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #105 on: December 03, 2019, 08:57:38 AM »
Bless me, Fadduh, for I have sinned, and have never given a confession, coz' nobody listens anyway.

Great findings (again), Tom.  Oh, bytheway....... I see Cardinal Stone has anointed St. Judyth of Bradenton with his Most Holy Oil (from his scalp, maybe?)  Got Brylcreem?

Mark, the two of them deserve each other. Harold, Sylvia, Roger Feinman, formerly of CBS died trying to "solve the case." Mary's and Garrison's families, along with Oliver and Judyth,
have been monetizing cherry picked details. It's always about the benjamins. Sempel when he was at Warner greenlighted the money to make JFK. I wonder if he interacted with Garrison.

What is DiEugenio blaming Donald Carpenter or Max Holland for doing, embarrassing Jim with facts? Dallas in November has experienced its share of face saving.
Remember Janney's presentation there in 2012? "We concluded he was missing and must be a CIA assassin, but it turned out we couldn't find him because he changed his name to "Bill".
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 09:14:21 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #106 on: December 04, 2019, 09:09:32 AM »
33.3 seconds. Seriously, Chapman? So you think your “two-fer” happened on Stemmons Freeway then?

Oops. Just corrected that, TypoSuckJohnny.
Thanks for living up to the above term I coined for you.
Run, Johnny... RUN... hide behind your typo-sucking

You call what I post irrelevant: Tell us why I should engage a contrarian in your interminable blablafuckinbla when I can get my point across in one powerful image.


 
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 09:48:17 AM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #106 on: December 04, 2019, 09:09:32 AM »

Online Ray Mitcham

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #107 on: December 04, 2019, 11:44:31 AM »
Just a rule reminder for Chapman.

"Behave at all times, no swearing, racism or personal insults."

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #107 on: December 04, 2019, 11:44:31 AM »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #108 on: December 04, 2019, 04:00:35 PM »
Just a rule reminder for Chapman.

"Behave at all times, no swearing, racism or personal insults."

If that was seriously enforced, the Forum would self-destruct.

With all the run-around and silliness, how about closing the Forum for two weeks around the upcoming holidays?

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #109 on: December 04, 2019, 04:01:56 PM »
Oops. Just corrected that, TypoSuckJohnny.

Why is it that every time Chapman screws up some aspect of this case (which is pretty much every day), it’s a “typo”. I suppose it was also a “typo” when he claimed the gunman was 12-15 feet away from Callaway too.

Quote
You call what I post irrelevant: Tell us why I should engage a contrarian in your interminable blablafuckinbla when I can get my point across in one powerful image.

What point? You refuse to engage in the details because you are woefully ignorant of them. You’re here to play games and try to look “clever”.

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Re: 56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.
« Reply #109 on: December 04, 2019, 04:01:56 PM »

 

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