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Author Topic: Assassination 3D animation by Mark Tyler  (Read 3234 times)

Offline Michael Walton

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Re: Assassination 3D animation by Mark Tyler
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2019, 01:46:15 PM »
Like a lot of things with this case, people here and elsewhere quibble over the minutiae of this case. Does it really matter if the shots occurred at 12:30 and 14 seconds or 12:29 and 58 seconds?

The larger point here is this animation brings home an excellent bird's eye, real-time view as it happened that day that no single photo nor witness statement could ever match. It's important, too, to remember that people were not standing around that day in DP saying "Wait for it! Here it comes! What time is it...?!" Obviously, no one expected it to happen so, therefore, witness statements about the precise timing the shots occurred are going to vary.

Isn't there a photo taken way down on Elm Street where Jack Daniel was that clearly shows the car heading toward the photographer and it shows the clock in the background? I think the clock shows 12:30? And with the car already out of the kill zone, the Z313 shot would have been fired seconds beforehand?

See what I mean? Does it matter? We should be appreciative of what Tyler has done here. It's an amazing piece of work and I've emailed him to ask him to see if he'd be willing to add more features to it. Not quibbles about when the pilot car went by and the precise time down to the millisecond of when the third shot was fired. Further, his animation has already proven, at least for me, and debunked one of the more ridiculous theories of the case - that the Zapruder film, and then the Nix and Muchmore films as well as photos, have been altered or frames have been removed.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Assassination 3D animation by Mark Tyler
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2019, 03:22:21 PM »
Like a lot of things with this case, people here and elsewhere quibble over the minutiae of this case. Does it really matter if the shots occurred at 12:30 and 14 seconds or 12:29 and 58 seconds?

The larger point here is this animation brings home an excellent bird's eye, real-time view as it happened that day that no single photo nor witness statement could ever match. It's important, too, to remember that people were not standing around that day in DP saying "Wait for it! Here it comes! What time is it...?!" Obviously, no one expected it to happen so, therefore, witness statements about the precise timing the shots occurred are going to vary.

Isn't there a photo taken way down on Elm Street where Jack Daniel was that clearly shows the car heading toward the photographer and it shows the clock in the background? I think the clock shows 12:30? And with the car already out of the kill zone, the Z313 shot would have been fired seconds beforehand?

See what I mean? Does it matter? We should be appreciative of what Tyler has done here. It's an amazing piece of work and I've emailed him to ask him to see if he'd be willing to add more features to it. Not quibbles about when the pilot car went by and the precise time down to the millisecond of when the third shot was fired. Further, his animation has already proven, at least for me, and debunked one of the more ridiculous theories of the case - that the Zapruder film, and then the Nix and Muchmore films as well as photos, have been altered or frames have been removed.

Yes there is the photo of the motorcade with the digital clock showing 12:30 as you described. The cases were solved before midnight on 11/22/63 and LHO was charged with both of the crimes. But we’ve been arguing the minutiae ever since the first few details started being reported in the minutes following the shootings. I was watching the television coverage of 11/22/63 recently and had to chuckle at one news commentator who was already insisting that every new item indicated a conspiracy just had to have occurred. He obviously already had his mind made up about a conspiracy before enough information had been disclosed to even determine what had taken place!

The point is that the controversy will continue and people will continue to argue the minutiae long after we are all gone. And there isn’t anything we can produce that will change that. Yes, the animation is a good and useful thing. But it is also just something else that people are going to argue about.

Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Assassination 3D animation by Mark Tyler
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2019, 03:34:16 PM »
This is kind of a small point but i said i'd say it here for completeness. You have the head shot occurring at 12:30. It should actually occur at about 12:30 and 30 seconds. This is because when the vice-presidential car turned the corner onto Houston street, Rufus Youngblood noticed that the Hertz sign ahead of him (on the roof of the TSBD) was already reading 12:30. Here is the relevant WC testimony:

Mr. SPECTER. Are you able to fix the precise time of the assassination?
Mr. YOUNGBLOOD. I would say 12:30. I was to keep the times. The Vice President was asking me if we were running on time, and so forth. And so he asked me how much further, and I would call back to our followup car and ask them how many more miles and so forth.
So, for this reason, I was at that time keeping up with the time very closely. And when we turned the corner, I noticed an illuminated clock sign on this building, which I now know is the School Book Depository Building.
And that clock indicated 12:30. And the reason it is significant is because this was the time we were supposed to arrive at the Trade Mart.

The exact timing of the fatal shot is a tricky one, with different people saying it was 12:29 or 12:30.  Any witness with a watch or clock could well be a minute off either way, so its probably impossible to say exactly what the time was with any confidence.

The other reason I chose 12:30:00 in the animation is for convenience as it makes it easier for the viewer to navigate, such as 30 seconds before or after the fatal shot.  By contrast if I had a more obscure time like 12:30:33 it would be very difficult for the viewer to get their bearings.

Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Assassination 3D animation by Mark Tyler
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2019, 03:40:41 PM »
Like a lot of things with this case, people here and elsewhere quibble over the minutiae of this case. Does it really matter if the shots occurred at 12:30 and 14 seconds or 12:29 and 58 seconds?

The larger point here is this animation brings home an excellent bird's eye, real-time view as it happened that day that no single photo nor witness statement could ever match. It's important, too, to remember that people were not standing around that day in DP saying "Wait for it! Here it comes! What time is it...?!" Obviously, no one expected it to happen so, therefore, witness statements about the precise timing the shots occurred are going to vary.

Isn't there a photo taken way down on Elm Street where Jack Daniel was that clearly shows the car heading toward the photographer and it shows the clock in the background? I think the clock shows 12:30? And with the car already out of the kill zone, the Z313 shot would have been fired seconds beforehand?

See what I mean? Does it matter? We should be appreciative of what Tyler has done here. It's an amazing piece of work and I've emailed him to ask him to see if he'd be willing to add more features to it. Not quibbles about when the pilot car went by and the precise time down to the millisecond of when the third shot was fired. Further, his animation has already proven, at least for me, and debunked one of the more ridiculous theories of the case - that the Zapruder film, and then the Nix and Muchmore films as well as photos, have been altered or frames have been removed.

Yes, the "McIntire 1" photo shows the Hertz clock at 12:30 here:



According to the synchronizations I have done, this is around 10-15 seconds after the fatal shot which means that having 12:30:00 as the moment of the fatal shot is accurate within 45 seconds (assuming the Hertz clock is correct of course!).

Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Assassination 3D animation by Mark Tyler
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2019, 10:46:38 PM »
Here is the latest release of Motorcade 63 (version 1.7):

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

As well as general tweaking to improve the accuracy (thanks to everyone who helped out this time!), I added a yellow triangle for the Dillard 2 photo (just seconds after the final shot was fired).

Perhaps more importantly, I added the Jack Weaver photo which I calculate as happening at the same time as Zapruder frame Z035 based on the triangulated position of the motorbike turning the corner:





If you look closely, you can see JFK's crooked elbow in Muchmore frame 267 as he pushes his hair back:



The full details are in appendix D.2 of the updated handbook.  Crucially this spell of the Zapruder film was recorded while the Hughes and Muchmore films were also being recorded, which means I have been able to calculate the relative speeds that the films were all recorded at.  For example if the Hughes film was recorded at 18 FPS, then the Zapruder and Muchmore film rates were 18.4 FPS.  If the Hughes film was recorded at 19 FPS, then Zapruder and Muchmore were recording at 19.4 FPS.  We can never know the exact rates, only the numerical relationships between them.

This correlation of different films was possible by matching unique events that were recorded in each of the films, and by doing split second comparisons.  For example I was able to calculate the relative speeds of the Muchmore film and the Hughes film using the front blinking lights on the Presidential Limo.  These observations prove that the Muchmore film was recorded fractionally faster than the Hughes film.

As always, if anyone disagrees with the animation, my calculations, or methodology, please let me know as I am keen to make the work as accurate as possible.

Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Assassination 3D animation by Mark Tyler
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2019, 10:52:37 PM »
Thanks, i'd like to see this and see what you come up with.

I got the "JFKs limo was travelling at a speed of between 12-15 miles per hour as he drove down Main Street." from Bill Greers WC testimony.

Hello Margaret

I have just published the latest version of the animation.  In the end I moved the Pilot Car forward by 45 seconds which gets it into the 12:27 range as mentioned in your previous post.

Let me know if any other adjustments are required on this, or if anything else needs my attention.

Offline Margaret Kelly

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Re: Assassination 3D animation by Mark Tyler
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2019, 01:45:13 AM »
Hello Margaret

I have just published the latest version of the animation.  In the end I moved the Pilot Car forward by 45 seconds which gets it into the 12:27 range as mentioned in your previous post.

Let me know if any other adjustments are required on this, or if anything else needs my attention.

Looks very good Mark. I notice that you did not include the Bell footage though. You have Bell as standing on a concrete plinth as number 59. Is that where he was standing when he took his footage of the motorcade on Houston street?

Also, as a side note, how confident are you that you have the correct position of Altgens when he took the "Altgens 5" photo while standing at the Main/Houston street intersection? (i'm not questioning your positioning of him, just curious as to how accurate you think you were able to get him. To within 3 or 4 feet do you think?)

Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Assassination 3D animation by Mark Tyler
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2019, 01:20:03 PM »
Looks very good Mark. I notice that you did not include the Bell footage though. You have Bell as standing on a concrete plinth as number 59. Is that where he was standing when he took his footage of the motorcade on Houston street?

Also, as a side note, how confident are you that you have the correct position of Altgens when he took the "Altgens 5" photo while standing at the Main/Houston street intersection? (i'm not questioning your positioning of him, just curious as to how accurate you think you were able to get him. To within 3 or 4 feet do you think?)

Thanks Margaret.  The early part of the Bell film looks somewhat strange as it was framed rather high, so I didn't use the early part of it as the Limo travelled along Houston Street (only on the turn onto Elm).  I think he was standing on the concrete plinth, as the angles seem to match up relative him looking down the pathway to the TSBD:


Someone helpfully constructed a montage image which shows his position:


The original source of this Bell in this image is the Skaggs photo here:


Yes, I would say that Altgens was within a few feet of where I have him on the map.  With this kind of triangulation the accuracy can never be perfect, but anywhere inside the dark circles should be about right.  The more photos from different angles that I use the more accurate it will be, which is why I am especially confident about the Limo on Elm Street.  We have 4 films, and several photos tracking the car at different points and from different angles in the crucial 15 seconds of the sequence.

In his early "3" photo you can judge the Altgens horizontal position relative to the road markings on Main Street.  Due to perspective, the white lines converge to a vanishing point so we can judge his position reasonably accurately:


For the "Altgens 5" photo that you mention I have assumed he is in the same position because the crowd on the corner was relatively dense as seen from the Bronson photo:


A good reference point I used for triangulating is the "No Parking" sign in front of the ramp entrance:


I also used this to position Orville Nix in a similar position as you can see that sign in his film too:


Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: Assassination 3D animation by Mark Tyler
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2020, 12:04:31 PM »
Here is the latest release of Motorcade 63 ( version 1.8 ):

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

As well as some fine tuning, I added the paths of: Rosemary Willis; Jay Skaggs; Emmett Hudson; and the man who ran up the knoll steps (I call him "Knoll Runner" in the animation).

Here are the new photos I added:

Bond 1
Grant
Moorman 4
Rickerby 0,1,2
Skaggs 4,5,6
Stoughton

A lot of people have mentioned the dictabelt evidence to me in recent weeks, so I added a large circle to show the time and place that the microphone is calculated to be by the HSCA scientists.  It's quite nice to see in real time where this needs to be.

I had the chance to review Dale Myers work regarding the Towner film frame rate.  Just to recap, in his 2007-2010 paper Myers said that the Towner film was recorded at 22.8 FPS, which is somewhat higher than was to be expected for a camera of that type.  In the end my estimate of the frame rate was very close to his, so I favour his measurements much more than those suggesting that the camera was recording at 18-20 FPS.  The full details of my workings are in appendix C.2 of the handbook:

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63/mc63_handbook.pdf

The animation has been adjusted to account for this higher frame rate which speeds up the Presidential limo as it turns the corner onto Elm Street.

As always, thanks to everyone who has contacted me to help improve the animation.  Cheers!

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Assassination 3D animation by Mark Tyler
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2020, 01:41:19 AM »
Here is the latest release of Motorcade 63 ( version 1.8 ):

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

As well as some fine tuning, I added the paths of: Rosemary Willis; Jay Skaggs; Emmett Hudson; and the man who ran up the knoll steps (I call him "Knoll Runner" in the animation).

Here are the new photos I added:

Bond 1
Grant
Moorman 4
Rickerby 0,1,2
Skaggs 4,5,6
Stoughton

A lot of people have mentioned the dictabelt evidence to me in recent weeks, so I added a large circle to show the time and place that the microphone is calculated to be by the HSCA scientists.  It's quite nice to see in real time where this needs to be.

I had the chance to review Dale Myers work regarding the Towner film frame rate.  Just to recap, in his 2007-2010 paper Myers said that the Towner film was recorded at 22.8 FPS, which is somewhat higher than was to be expected for a camera of that type.  In the end my estimate of the frame rate was very close to his, so I favour his measurements much more than those suggesting that the camera was recording at 18-20 FPS.  The full details of my workings are in appendix C.2 of the handbook:

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63/mc63_handbook.pdf

The animation has been adjusted to account for this higher frame rate which speeds up the Presidential limo as it turns the corner onto Elm Street.

As always, thanks to everyone who has contacted me to help improve the animation.  Cheers!

Hi Mark, First  allow me to congratulate you on your producing Motorcade 63, and thank you for spending what had to have been many many hours in researching and producing Motorcade 63. 

Please allow me to focus on just one tenth of one second from 12:29: 59  to 12:30:00 ....  You indicate that Tom Dillard snapped his photo of the face of the TSBD at 12:29:59, and the first shot from the window took place at 12:30:00 ....If I'm correct in reading your presentation then Tom Dillard would have had to have captured any gunman who would have been firing a rifle out of the window ( and the rifle definitely would have had to have been OUTSIDE the window) but Dillards photo shows no trace of a rifle or gunman behind that SE corner window.

P.S.    I must be misreading .... Because Dillard didn't take a photo of the TSBD BEFORE the shots were fired   
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 03:10:21 PM by Walt Cakebread »

 

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