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Author Topic: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)  (Read 571 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2019, 12:42:25 AM »
There seems to be a major discrepancy with what the 6th floor museum is showing. Their eastern-most stack of books (in the 3 stack layout) seems to be closer to the east wall of the TSBD than official photos of the 3 stack layout show. Check out these 3 photos:







The police photo of the 3 stack layout looks to have the 3 stack layout further away from the east wall than the 6th floor museums layout.

How can the entire 3 stack configuration move in the direction of the east wall like this (as per the 6th floor museum layout)? Shouldn't both layouts be using the 5 foot 6 inch distance of the middle stack from the east wall as guidance (as per the Studebaker map)? Unless, given Gary Macks conspiracy theorist mindset, while still alive he deliberately pushed the 3 stack configuration closer to the east wall of the TSBD in order to make Oswalds access in and out deliberately look small?

In fact, in the police photo the stacks are packed tight together. However, in the 6th floor museum layout, the eastern-most stack is pushed out about 1 inch from the middle stack. This is arguably a deliberate effort to push the eastern-most stack as close to the east wall as possible to make it look almost impossible for Oswald to squeeze in and out of the snipers nest.

There are three DPD photos that were testified as being taken before anything was moved. These show the hulls on the floor. Any photo that shows the stacks of boxes in locations different than they are in those 3 photos would have been taken after someone relocated them. If I remember correctly, the diagram by Studebaker was not drawn until Monday (11/25/63). There was reportedly quite a few press members there over the weekend taking photos, etc. Therefore, the diagram dimensions are questionable.

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2019, 12:42:25 AM »

Online Margaret Kelly

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2019, 01:14:13 AM »
If I remember correctly, the diagram by Studebaker was not drawn until Monday (11/25/63). There was reportedly quite a few press members there over the weekend taking photos, etc. Therefore, the diagram dimensions are questionable.
I disagree. Assuming those boxes were full of books (which they almost certainly were) stacks 2 and 3 (with stack 1 being the most easterly stack) would not have been moved by accident by reporters. It appears stack 1 (the most easterly stack) was moved out of the way in order to make examination of the snipers nest more easy. When it was put back is uncertain. That's what it appears to me anyway (the other scenario is that there was never a stack 1 but that Day or Studebaker moved boxes out of the corner (near the pipes) into position in stack 1s position in order to be able to get far enough into the corner to take the famous photo looking downwards at the 3 shells on the floor). Once this photo was taken, stack 1 was dismantled.This potentially created a problem with some officers who remembered seeing 3 stacks and thought stack 1 was part of the original barricade and so stack 1 was "reconstructed" for the police photos in the days afterwards. The Tom Alyea footage appears to only show 2 stacks:



This is what is creating doubt in my mind. Did Studebaker know something we don't know and that's why he only drew 2 stacks of books? If there were 3 originally, he would surely remember trying to squeeze into the tight snipers nest with 3 stacks there ...which is what is making me question did he move boxes out of the way into the position of "stack 1". He woudl have access to all the officers that saw the original snipers nest. He would have been able to get confirmation if his map was right in addition to the fact he was in the snipers nest too taking photos when it was discovered. 

In any case, as stack 2 could not have been accidentally moved (due to its weight), knowing that stack 2 was 5 feet 6 inches from the east wall of the TSBD (as per Studebakers map) allows us to place the entire 3 stacks in place.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2019, 01:23:37 AM »
I disagree. Assuming those boxes were full of books (which they almost certainly were) stacks 2 and 3 (with stack 1 being the most easterly stack) would not have been moved by accident by reporters. It appears stack 1 (the most easterly stack) was moved out of the way in order to make examination of the snipers nest more easy. When it was put back is uncertain. That's what it appears to me anyway (the other scenario is that there was never a stack 1 but that Day or Studebaker moved boxes out of the corner (near the pipes) into position in stack 1s position in order to be able to get far enough into the corner to take the famous photo looking downwards at the 3 shells on the floor). Once this photo was taken, stack 1 was dismantled.This potentially created a problem with some officers who remembered seeing 3 stacks and thought stack 1 was part of the original barricade and so stack 1 was "reconstructed" for the police photos in the days afterwards. The Tom Alyea footage appears to only show 2 stacks:



This is what is creating doubt in my mind. Did Studebaker know something we don't know and that's why he only drew 2 stacks of books? If there were 3 originally, he would surely remember trying to squeeze into the tight snipers nest with 3 stacks there ...which is what is making me question did he move boxes out of the way into the position of "stack 1". He woudl have access to all the officers that saw the original snipers nest. He would have been able to get confirmation if his map was right in addition to the fact he was in the snipers nest too taking photos when it was discovered. 

In any case, as stack 2 could not have been accidentally moved (due to its weight), knowing that stack 2 was 5 feet 6 inches from the east wall of the TSBD (as per Studebakers map) allows us to place the entire 3 stacks in place.

I think that you need to be discussing this with Walt Cakebread. He seems to have a vivid imagination too.

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2019, 01:23:37 AM »

Online Margaret Kelly

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2019, 01:26:23 AM »
I think that you need to be discussing this with Walt Cakebread. He seems to have a vivid imagination too.

I don't understand. Do you think there were 2 or 3 stacks of books?

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2019, 01:29:04 AM »
I don't understand. Do you think there were 2 or 3 stacks of books?

3

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2019, 01:29:04 AM »

Online Margaret Kelly

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2019, 01:35:18 AM »
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Me too. I'm just surprised Studebaker and the Warren Commission went with just 2 stacks. I guess a reasonable explanation is that Studebaker just guessed when he was doing his map on the 25th (perhaps there were just 2 stacks on that day) ...and he didn't realize that his photo of the 3 shells caught a glimpse of a 3rd stack in the foreground of his picture.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2019, 01:49:54 AM »
Me too. I'm just surprised Studebaker and the Warren Commission went with just 2 stacks. I guess a reasonable explanation is that Studebaker just guessed when he was doing his map on the 25th (perhaps there were just 2 stacks on that day) ...and he didn't realize that his photo of the 3 shells caught a glimpse of a 3rd stack in the foreground of his picture.

Oswald was dead. The rifle had been returned to the DPD from the FBI but just sat in the unopened box. My guess is that Studebaker was just following orders and going through the motions. The sixth floor museum had access to many of the police officers involved, including Carl Day, when they were researching this stuff. My guess is that they have it as close as can be determined. But it would be interesting to hear what they have to say about it.

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2019, 01:49:54 AM »

Online Jerry Organ

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2019, 02:31:55 AM »


From the east wall interior to the masonry opening for the Sniper's Nest window frame is 33 inches. Day's distance of 5' 6" (66") is probably from the east wall to where the middle stack began. As suggested, the eastern-most stack seems to have been removed by Monday.



The Museum's boxes were placed with reference to how the original cartons sat on the floorboards as seen in the DPD Crime Lab photos. The floorboards are the same as in 1963. Assuming the 14-count stack was situated reasonably accurately, it's possible the cartons got re-stacked over the years and shifted a bit.

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Re: Help me build my own snipers nest (buying cardboard boxes)
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2019, 02:31:55 AM »

 

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