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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory  (Read 15630 times)

Online Tom Scully

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2019, 02:35:49 AM »
What I find most amusing are those who dismiss claims as the product of a "conspiracy theory" while themselves advocating outlandish conspiracy theories.  Like "Russian collusion" and Jill Stein being a "Russian asset."  Kooks are not limited to the right or left.  There are plenty to go around.  The anti-vaxers are a great example.
True for the most part but how is that a defense of the President - not some oddball on the internet - promoting these conspiracy claims?

The "deep state" is not going after him and this wasn't a treasonous conspiracy to investigate him. Did Trump have enemies in the bureaucracy that perhaps abused their powers? Sure. But there is no such thing as a "deep state" and it hasn't been going after him.
They ( LNers ) be losing bigly here lately trying to defend the indefensible. Logistians, LNers ain't. The conspirators thank you mightily for your devoted patronage, suckers!

Well said, Jack....

I am tackling, in one post, the heaping helpin' "dumped" into this thread by Richard and Walt.... Hopefully, a "one stop, shop," post to shutdown CT, so far, unsupported in this thread, pro Trump Putin "stuff".

Imagine my reaction after reading posts of ideologically driven posters, in the grip of confirmation bias, who spend only a fraction of the time I devote to attempting to be and to stay informed. Embracing Trump/Fox/republican CT bs is a lazy-man endeavor or a hopelessly indoctrinated, self imposed paranoia.
In my humble but well-supported opinion, only one of these three posters is NOT regurgitating Trumpist, right wing, or (neither MSNBC or CNN corporate management is "left" wing) or center right corporate media (i.e., the majority of US for-profit news outlets). talking points.
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https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/31/twitter-now-says-1-4-million-people-interacted-with-russian-trolls-during-2016-presidential-campaign/
Twitter now says 1.4 million people interacted with Russian trolls during 2016 presidential campaign
Sarah Buhr@sarahbuhr / 5:09 pm EST • January 31, 2018...

From page 10 of 11, of recently released, bi-partisan US Senate Intelligence Committee report.:
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https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume2.pdf
...X. (U) THE COMMITTEE'S REVIEW OF RUSSIA'S USE OF SOCIAL MEDIA
(U) Throughout 2017, 2018, and 2019, in addition to its review of classified information
on the topic, the Committee worked to elevate public awareness of the threat posed by Russia
online, an effort that included applying pressure on social media companies to more fully
examine their platforms for suspected Russian government activities.
(U) On March 30, 2017, the Committee held a public hearing for the purpose of
discussing Russian malign influence efforts. The hearing, entitled "Disinformation: A Primer in
Russian Active Measures and Influence Campaigns," included testimony from a number of
expert witnesses who provided insights into the mechanics of Russian influence operations and
warned that Russian social media manipulation "has not stopped since the election in November
and continues fomenting chaos amongst the American populace."293 Committee Members joined
witnesses in calling on social media companies to do more to uncover the Russian active
measures activities occurring on 'their platforms. In the wake of the hearing, the Committee
publicly and privately pressed social media companies to release more information about the
activity of Russian actors on social media in the lead-up to the 2016 election.
(U) On April 27, 2017, Facebook released a white paper detailing an array of malicious
information operations by organized actors on the Facebook social media platform.294 Though
the paper implicitly attributed the operations to Russian intelligence actors, the company had yet
to uncover the substantial operational activity of the IRA. 295 Finally, in late summer 2017,
Face book notified the Committee of its findings from an: internal information security
investigation which uncovered 470 accounts, groups, and pages linked to the IRA.296 ...

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https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/why-on-earth-does-trump-think-a-dnc-server-is-hidden-in-ukraine
By Matt Shuham and Josh Kovensky
October 1, 2019 2:10 pm
....
Crowdstrike, the conspiracy goes, provided the FBI with false information incriminating Russian hackers while the DNC refused to hand over the servers themselves. The theory’s proponents accuse Democrats of planting evidence that their servers were hacked during the 2016 election — a breach that, arguably, contributed to Hillary Clinton’s loss that November.

This, some right-wingers strenuously assert, gave Democrats cover for the supposed murder of Seth Rich, the former DNC staffer who, conspiracists believe, was the real source of the stolen emails published by Wikileaks. (Rich’s family has repeatedly asked prominent right wingers, including via a pending lawsuit against Fox News, to stop spreading this fake story.)
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Appeals Court Reinstates Lawsuit Against Fox News Over ...
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/13/760681773/appeals-court-reinstates-lawsuit-against-fox-news-over-seth-rich-story
Sep 13, 2019 - The suit was filed by Rich's parents over a Fox News story from May 2017. ... The police department in Washington, D.C., believes Rich's shooting death was the result of a botched robbery. ... The suit by Seth Rich's parents, Joel and Mary Rich, was dismissed last year by Judge George B ...

In reality, Crowdstrike has had a hand investigating a number of high-profile hacking incidents, including the North Korean cyber-intrusion into Sony Pictures. But its work in 2016 for the Democratic National Committee brought the company to front pages worldwide....
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https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/very-important-to-unpack-this
Very Important to Unpack This
By Josh Marshall |October 17, 2019 1:55 pm
Among many other things, in his just concluded remarks, White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney slightly shifted the White House explanation. He said one reason for the hold up of weapons aid to Ukraine was about the “corruption related to the DNC server.” This needs to be unpacked.

It is just a shard of information. But it is a reference to the Seth Rich/DNC Server conspiracy theory which holds the following …

Not only did Donald Trump not collude with Russia during the 2016 campaign. Russia didn’t even interfere in the election at all. Both were framed by a conspiracy between Ukraine and the DNC. The server is the DNC server that the Russians hacked. It’s ‘missing’, so the conspiracy theory goes, because a cybersecurity firm called Crowdstrike was part of the conspiracy and they made it look like the Russians had hacked the servers when in fact it was an inside job by a disgruntled DNC employee. And which employee? Seth Rich.

You probably know this whole story, Russian propaganda channels and Wikileaks latched on to the idea that Rich, who all evidence suggests died the victim of a random street crime, was the disgruntled leaker and that he was later murdered by Democrats or people associated with the Clintons as part of the conspiracy.

That is what this is about: Russia and Trump were framed. The real election interference was a conspiracy between the DNC and Ukraine. That was why the White House held up military aid. And if there’s any question that this was an offhand remark by Mulvaney, remember: Trump explicitly invoked the “Crowdstrike server” in his call with Zelensky. That is what this is about.
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Demystifying CrowdStrike Conspiracy Theories—Cyber ...
https://fortune.com/2019/09/28/crowdstrike-conspiracy-theories-trump-ukraine/
Sep 28, 2019 - But the mention begins to make some sense if one entertains fringe beliefs, fantasies, and paranoid speculation. ... The server, they say Ukraine has it. ... (CrowdStrike provided the bureau with digital images of the DNC's ...

Two days ago, Fox News "reporting," vs reality !
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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/report-hillary-clinton-emails-violations-faults
THE CLINTONS Published 2 days ago
State Department report on Clinton emails finds hundreds of violations, dozens of individuals at fault...
VS:
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https://www.grassley.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/2019-10-17%20State%20Dept.%20to%20CEG%20-%20Classified%20Emails.pdf
Page 1 of 10 - October 16, 2019

....The Department has completed its administrative review of the handling of classified
information relating to emails located on former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's private
server and adjudication of potential security incidents.
Please find enclosed a final report
summarizing the Department's review of this matter. Should the Department become aware in
the future of any additional classified emails sent through former Secretary Clinton's server, the
Department will likewise follow appropriate procedures.

On page 8 of 10:
...The Use of Personal Email to conduct Official Business Represented an Increased Risk of
Unauthorized Disclosure
It was AP D's determination that the use of a private email system to conduct official business
added an increased degree of risk of compromise as a private system lacks the network
monitoring and intrusion detection capabilities of State Department networks. While the use of a
private email system itself did not necessarily increase the likelihood of classified information
being transmitted on unclassified systems, those incidents which then resulted in the presence of
classified information upon it carried an increased risk of compromise or inadvertent disclosure.

APD Uncovered No Persuasive Evidence of Systemic Misuse Relative to the Deliberate
Introduction of Classified Information to Unclassified Systems
While there were some instances of classified information being inappropriately introduced into
an unclassified system in furtherance of expedience, by and large, 'the individuals interviewed
were aware of security policies and did their best to implement them in their operations.
Correspondence with the Secretary is inherently sensitive, and is therefore open for broad
interpretation as to classification, particularly with respect to Foreign Government Information.
Instances of classified information being deliberately transmitted via unclassified email were the
rare exception and resulted in adjudicated security violations. There was no persuasive evidence
of systemic, deliberate mishandling of classified information.


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https://time.com/5044847/michael-flynn-hillary-clinton-republican-convention-lock-her-up/
Michael Flynn Led a 'Lock Her Up' Chant at GOP Convention ...
https://time.com › Politics › White House
Dec 1, 2017
Former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, who is expected to plead guilty to lying to federal ...

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy#Department_of_Justice_Inspector_General's_report
...Comey's October decision to send a letter notifying Congress that the investigation had been re-opened one week before the election was described as "ad-hoc" and "a serious error in judgment."[201]....
The IG report also commented on "highly classified information" in a purported Russian intelligence document obtained by the FBI that included an unconfirmed allegation that Attorney General Loretta Lynch assured a Clinton staffer that she would prevent the FBI investigation from digging too deeply into Clinton's affairs. The FBI long considered the document unreliable and a possible forgery, and Comey told IG investigators he knew the information was not true.[204] The IG report stated: "Comey said that he became concerned that the information about Lynch would taint the public's perception of the [Clinton] investigation if it leaked, particularly after DCLeaks and Guccifer 2.0 began releasing hacked emails in mid-June 2016," explaining why Comey chose to bypass Lynch and deputy AG Sally Yates to announce the FBI investigation findings himself.[205] The Washington Post also stated that "current and former officials" told them that Comey relied on the questionable document in making his July decision to announce on his own without his superiors approval that the investigation was over.[204]

Let us consider what "the four of us" might agree on, if anything. Jill Stein and the POTUS who selected Mike Flynn to be his National Security Advisor are either too clueless or lacking in self awareness to ever be seriously considered as qualified (reasonable) choices to vote for, for POTUS....
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https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/12/19/in-defense-of-emmet-sullivan-van-grack-suggested-mueller-did-review-whether-flynns-behavior-amounted-to-treason/
IN DEFENSE OF EMMET SULLIVAN: VAN GRACK SUGGESTED MUELLER DID REVIEW WHETHER FLYNN’S BEHAVIOR AMOUNTED TO TREASON
December 19, 2018/ in2016 Presidential Election, emptywheel, Mueller Probe /by emptywheel
.....
I’d like to defend Judge Emmet Sullivan’s intemperate mentions of unregistered foreign agents and treason in the Mike Flynn sentencing hearing =link to transcript of Sentencing Hearing of Mike Flynn, December 17, 2018 sentencing hearing, yesterday. Not only has the discussion about his comments gotten the precise language used wrong, but it fails to understand the import of Mike Flynn’s lies about being an agent of the Turkish government.

There are two comments in question. First, in part of a speech about how he would weigh the mitigating and aggravating factors in Flynn’s sentencing, Sullivan said that Flynn was “an unregistered agent of a foreign country, while serving as the National Security Advisor to the President of the United States.”
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I’m going to also take into consideration the aggravating circumstances, and the aggravating circumstances are serious. Not only did you lie to the FBI, but you lied to senior officials in the Trump Transition Team and Administration. Those lies caused the then-Vice President-Elect, incoming Chief of Staff, and then-Press Secretary to lie to the American people. Moreover, you lied to the FBI about three different topics, and you made those false statements while you were serving as the National Security Advisor, the President of the United States’ most senior national security aid. I can’t minimize that.

Two months later you again made false statements in multiple documents filed pursuant to the Foreign Agents Registration Act. So, all along you were an unregistered agent of a foreign country, while serving as the National Security Advisor to the President of the United States. [my emphasis]

Then, after having gotten Flynn to finally take him up on consulting with his attorneys, but before they recessed, Sullivan sat Flynn down and asked prosecutor Brandon Van Grack if prosecutors had evaluated Flynn’s activities to see if his behavior rose to the level of “treasonous activity.” Van Grack responded by answering about the crime of treason.
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COURT: All right. I really don’t know the answer to this question, but given the fact that the then-President of the United States imposed sanctions against Russia for interfering with federal elections in this country, is there an opinion about the conduct of the defendant the following days that rises to the level of treasonous activity on his part?

MR. VAN GRACK: The government did not consider — I shouldn’t say — I shouldn’t say did not consider, but in terms of the evidence that the government had at the time, that was not something that we were considering in terms of charging the defendant.

THE COURT: All right. Hypothetically, could he have been charged with treason?

MR. VAN GRACK: Your Honor, I want to be careful what I represent.

THE COURT: Sure.

MR. VAN GRACK: And not having that information in front of me and because it’s such a serious question, I’m hesitant to answer it, especially because I think it’s different than asking if he could be charged under FARA or if there were other 1001 violations, for example. [my emphasis]
Flynn went off, consulted with his lawyers, and wisely decided the last thing he should do is let Sullivan sentence him while he was thinking of treason. When he came back, the first thing Sullivan did was correct that Flynn was not acting as a foreign agent while serving as National Security Advisor and explain that he did not think Flynn had committed treason, but wanted to know what Mueller’s thinking on uncharged crimes was.
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THE COURT: All right. I just want to ask a couple of questions. This is directed to either government counsel or defense counsel. I made a statement about Mr. Flynn acting as a foreign agent while serving in the White House. I may have misspoken. Does that need to be corrected?

MR. VAN GRACK: Yes, Your Honor, that would be correct, which is that the conduct ended, I believe, in mid-November 2016.

THE COURT: All right. That’s what I thought, and I felt terrible about that. I just want the record clear on that. You agree with that, Counsel?

MR. KELNER: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. I also asked about — and this is very important — I also asked about the Special Counsel’s Office. I also asked questions about the Special Counsel and the — and other potential offenses for the purpose of understanding the benefit, if any, that Mr. Flynn has received in the plea deal. I wasn’t suggesting he’s committed treason. I wasn’t suggesting he committed violations. I was just curious as to whether or not he could have been charged, and I gave a few examples.

[snip]

THE COURT: And I said early on, Don’t read too much into the questions I ask. But I’m not suggesting he committed treason. I just asked a legitimate question.

MR. VAN GRACK: Yes, Your Honor. And that affords us an opportunity to clarify something on our end which is, with respect to treason, I said I wanted to make sure I had the statute in front of me. The government has no reason to believe that the defendant committed treason; not just at the time, but having proffered with the defendant and spoken with him through 19 interviews, no concerns with respect to the issue of treason. [my emphasis]
Now, I will be honest with you: I was screaming at Sullivan when I read this being tweeted out in real time, in part because I spend so much time arguing that Trump and his flunkies won’t be charged with treason because we’re not at war. I do think, in an effort to convey to Flynn just how reprehensible he believes his actions were, Sullivan got out over his skis. But I think his comments are far more defensible — and telling — than much of the commentary appreciates.

Here’s why.

First, even the docket makes it clear that there are a bunch of sealed documents that Sullivan has gotten, including an ex parte version of the government’s addendum describing Flynn’s cooperation. Sullivan started the hearing yesterday emphasizing that point, then returned to it after he had gotten Flynn to plead guilty again under oath.[/u]
Quote
There’s a great deal of nonpublic information in this case, and I’ll just leave it at that.

(The Court:) If any of my questions require a party to disclose nonpublic information, or if I begin to discuss something nonpublic, don’t be shy in telling me. My clerks over the years have learned to do this (indicating) if I get off of script or if I get into areas where — I won’t get offended if you do it. I may not see you, so stand up and raise your hands or say something, please. I don’t want to unintentionally say something that should not be revealed on the public docket.

There’s a new document that was filed at 10:19 this morning. The government filed a sealed motion alerting the Court that it inadvertently omitted one document from the government’s in-camera production.

[snip]

Having carefully read all the materials provided to the Court in this case, including those materials reviewed under seal and in-camera, I conclude that there was and remains to be a factual basis for Mr. Flynn’s plea of guilty. [my emphasis]
By yesterday morning, Emmet Sullivan probably became one of the few people outside Mueller’s team and his DOJ supervisors that understands the activities that Trump and his associates, including Flynn, engaged in from 2015 to 2017. He understands not just the significance of Flynn’s lies, but also how those lies tied to graft and conspiracy with foreign countries — countries including, but not limited to, Russia.

It should gravely worry the Trump people that Sullivan’s comments about whether Flynn’s behavior was treasonous came from someone who just read about what the Mueller investigation has discovered.

Now consider that, as part of his effort to understand how much benefit Flynn got from pleading guilty to one charge of false statements for his multiple lies, Sullivan and Van Grack had this exchange.
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MR. VAN GRACK: [W]e’d like to bring to the Court’s attention that we just had an indictment unsealed in the Eastern District of Virginia charging Bijan Rafiekian and Ekim Alptekin with various violations, and the defendant provided substantial assistance to the attorneys in the Eastern District of Virginia in obtaining that charging document.

THE COURT: All right. Could the defendant have been indicted in that indictment? Could he have been charged in that indictment?

MR. VAN GRACK: And, Your Honor, the answer is yes, and the reason for that is that in the Statement of Offense in this case, the defendant refers to false statements in that FARA filing that are part of the indictment filed in the Eastern District of Virginia.

[snip]

THE COURT: And that would have been — what’s the exposure in that indictment if someone is found guilty?

MR. VAN GRACK: Your Honor, I believe, if you’ll give me a moment, I believe it was a conspiracy, 18 U.S.C. 371, which I believe is a five-year offense. It was a violation of 18 U.S.C. 951, which is either a five- or ten-year offense, and false statements — under those false statements, now that I think about it, Your Honor, pertain to Ekim Alptekin, and I don’t believe the defendant had exposure to the false statements of that individual.

THE COURT: Could the sentences have been run consecutive to one another?

MR. VAN GRACK: I believe so.

THE COURT: So the exposure would have been grave, then, would have been — it would have been — exposure to Mr. Flynn would have been significant had he been indicted? [my emphasis]

Van Grack not only says that Flynn could have been charged in that conspiracy to act as an unregistered foreign agent indictment, but that the lies he told were part of the indictment.

And in fact, this language in Flynn’s statement of the offense (which Sullivan read yesterday in court):

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On March 7, 2017, FLYNN filed multiple documents with the Department of Justice pursuant to the Foreign Agents Registration Act (“FARA”) pertaining to a project performed by him and his company, the Flynn Intel Group, Inc. (“FIG”), for the principal benefit of the Republic of Turkey (“Turkey project”). In the FARA filings, FLYNN made materially false statements and omissions, including by falsely stating that (a) FIG did not know whether or the extent to which the Republic of Turkey was involved in the Turkey project, (b) the Turkey project was focused on improving U.S. business organizations’ confidence regarding doing business in Turkey, and (c) an op-ed by FLYNN published in The Hill on November 8, 2016, was written at his own initiative; and by omitting that officials from the Republic of Turkey provided supervision and direction over the Turkey project.

Became this language in the Bijan Kian and Ekim Alptekin indictment:
Quote
Tom Scully comment: Since this was written last December, Bijan Kian was convicted by a jury, even though Flynn did not testify at the trial....
Quote
https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/09/24/judge-trengas-bijan-kian-decision-may-hurt-not-help-mike-flynn/
JUDGE TRENGA’S BIJAN KIAN DECISION MAY HURT, NOT HELP, MIKE FLYNN
September 24, 2019/ in 2016 Presidential Election, Mueller Probe /by emptywheel
As expected, Judge Anthony Trenga has overturned the conviction of Mike Flynn’s former partner, Bijan Kian. ...
.....
While a lot of people are seeing this (accompanied by the news that Vin Weber and Tony Podesta won’t be charged) as a blow for DOJ’s new FARA prosecution practice, I think Trenga’s opinion has greater repercussions for 18 USC 951 prosecutions than it does for FARA, because he finds (convincingly) that Congress intended the standards for the former to be significantly higher than for the latter.

That said, a central part of Trenga’s ruling derived from his decisions regarding Flynn’s role in this and was, in part, a result of Flynn’s decision to renege on his plea colloquy. Because the government couldn’t call him to testify but neither could rely on his statements as a co-conspirator, it made the most important evidence fairly useless at trial.....

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From approximately January 2017 through approximately March 2017, outside attorneys for Company A gathered information to determine whether Company A or any of its employees had an obligation to register under FARA based upon Company A’s work on “Operation Confidence.” During this process, RAFIEK.IAN and ALPTEKIN knowingly provided false information to Company A’s attorneys in an effort to hide from the attorneys – and ultimately from the FARA Unit – the involvement of Turkish government officials in the project.

Among other things, RAFIEKIAN falsely told Company A’s attorneys that:

a. The meeting on or about September 19, 2016 in New York City had nothing to do with Project Confidence, and instead was in furtherance of an abandoned “Project Truth” that was distinct from Project Confidence;

b. There were no other contacts with Turkish government officials regarding the project;

c. The op-ed was Person A’s own idea, and he wrote it on his own behalf, and unrelated to the project;

[snip]

Attorneys for Company A also solicited information from ALPTEKIN for use in the FARA filings. Through his own attorneys, ALPTEKIN falsely told Company A’s attorneys that:

a. ALPTEKIN had not been consulted on the op-ed, and that he would have opposed it if he had been consulted;

[snip]

On or about March 7, 2017, RAFIEKIAN and ALPTEKIN caused to be made the following false statements of material fact in documents filed with and furnished to the Attorney General under the provisions of FARA, and omitted the following material facts necessary to make the statements therein not misleading. RAFIEKIAN reviewed the filings and provided comments to Company A’s attorneys before the filings were submitted, but did not request that any of these false statements be changed.

[snip]

Exhibit A to Company A’s FARA Registration Statement falsely stated that “[Company A] does not know whether or the extent to which the Republic of Turkey was involved with its retention by [Company B] for the three-month project.”

[snip]

Paragraph 13: “In addition to the above described activities, if any, have you engaged in activity on your own behalf which b~nefits your foreign principal?”

Response: “Because of its expertise, [Company A J -officials write, speak, and give interviews relating to national security. Although not undertaken at the direction or control of a foreign principal, it is possible that such activities may have an indirect benefit to a principal. On his own initiative, [Person A J published an op-ed in The Hill on November 8, 2016, that related to the same subject matters as [Company A] work for [Company BJ. Neither [Company BJ, nor any other person requested or directed publication of the op-ed.”

The Attachment to Company A’s FARA Supplemental Statement falsely stated that “[Company A] understood the engagement to be focused on improving U.S. business organizations’ confidence regarding doing business in Turkey, particularly with respect to the stability of Turkey and its suitability as a venue for investment and commercial activity.”
While there are other false statements alleged (presumably the ones Van Grack said Flynn was not implicated in), the EDVA indictment actually charges four counts of false statements, and one of those directly maps to the lie Flynn himself pled guilty to.

Side note: it’s worth mentioning that Rob Kelner — who is still Flynn’s lawyer — is the guy who submitted those false FARA statements, which means he may be the lawyer that will take the stand in the EDVA trial to attest to the lies on those forms. It’s Kelner who still has some cooperation with prosecutors to do, at least as much as Flynn.

Significantly, as I noted the other day, both the conspiracy and the foreign agents charges in the EDVA indictment say the conduct continued through March 2017, the date Flynn Intelligence Group filed false FARA filings, hiding the fact that they knew Turkey was behind the Fethullah Gulen project.

Quote
COUNT ONE Conspiracy – 18 U.S. C. § 3 71 THE GRAND JURY FURTHER CHARGES THAT: 1. The allegations contained in the General Allegations of this Indictment are incorporated here by reference. 2. From at least July 2016, through at least March 2017, in the Eastern District of Virginia and elsewhere, the defendants,

[snip]

COUNT TWO Acting as an Unregistered Agent of a Foreign Government – 18 U.S. C. § 9 51 THE GRAND JURY FURTHER CHARGES THAT: 1. The allegations contained in the General Allegations of this Indictment are incorporated here by reference. 2. From approximately July 2016 through approximately March 2017, in the Eastern District of Virginia and elsewhere, the defendants, [my emphasis]

There’s a reason it gets charged that way, which is even more important for Flynn than for his co-conspirators (a reason that also played out in Paul Manafort’s case, in which he was charged for hiding his ties to Ukraine at a time when they would have impacted the Trump campaign).

The point of these registration crimes is that so long as you withhold full disclosure about your actions, you continue to lie to the federal government and the public about the significance of your actions. By filing a registration in March 2017 specifically denying what all the co-conspirators knew — that Flynn Intelligence Group was actually working for Turkey, not Ekim Alptekin’s cut-out Inovo — it prevented the public and the government from assessing the import of Flynn’s actions in trying to force DOJ to deem Gulen a terrorist who could be extradited to Turkey. And frankly, so long as Flynn continued to hide that detail, it made him susceptible to pressure if not blackmail from Turkey.

There’s a grammatical difference between Sullivan’s two comments. He first said that Flynn was “an unregistered agent of a foreign country, while serving as the National Security Advisor.” That was, technically, true. For the entirety of the time Flynn served as National Security Advisor, FIG had not admitted that it had actually been working directly for Turkey. Indeed, FIG continued to lie (and so remained unregistered) about that fact until December 1, 2017, when Flynn pled guilty.

As I’ll show in a follow-up post, it is critically important that Flynn continued to lie about whether he had been working directly for Turkey when he met with the FBI on January 24, 2017.

Sullivan’s follow-up used different grammar. Then, he said “Flynn [was not] acting as a foreign agent while serving in the White House.” That is also true. He was no longer secretly being paid by the government of Turkey to do things like slap his name on op-eds written by other people.

Still, even though he was no longer being paid to take specific actions requested by the government of Turkey, for the entire time he worked at the White House (and for more than eight months afterwards), his past work as an agent of a foreign government — as opposed to a foreign company cut-out — remained unregistered, undisclosed to the public.

With that in mind, I want to return to the specific exchange that Sullivan had. In response to his question about whether Flynn’s behavior amounted not to treason, but to treasonous activity, Van Grack at first says they did not consider treason, but then corrected himself.

Quote
COURT: All right. I really don’t know the answer to this question, but given the fact that the then-President of the United States imposed sanctions against Russia for interfering with federal elections in this country, is there an opinion about the conduct of the defendant the following days that rises to the level of treasonous activity on his part?

MR. VAN GRACK: The government did not consider — I shouldn’t say — I shouldn’t say did not consider, but in terms of the evidence that the government had at the time, that was not something that we were considering in terms of charging the defendant. [my emphasis]

All of this seems to be consistent with Mueller reviewing Flynn’s actions, reviewing statute, finding that Flynn’s behavior did rise to the standards described in 18 USC 951 (with which Van Grack said he could have been charged), but did not rise to treason (as it clearly did not). Van Grack explained that “in terms of other offenses, they were not sort of in consideration in our interfacing with the defendant,” which seems to admit that Flynn could have been charged with other crimes, but was not, because he cooperated.

This walkback, I’m convinced, is as much for the benefit of the prosecutors, who gave Flynn an unbelievable sweetheart deal, as it was for the sake of judicial restraint. Mueller is forgiving Flynn working in the White House while continuing to hide that he had, during the campaign, secretly and knowingly worked for a foreign government, in consideration of his cooperation unveiling other activities.

But legal standards aside, Sullivan — one of the only people who has read a summary of what Flynn provided in his cooperation — still could not hide his disgust about the conduct he knows far more about than we do.

Quote
This crime is very serious. As I stated, it involves false statements to the Federal Bureau of Investigation agents on the premises of the White House, in the White House in the West Wing by a high ranking security officer with, up to that point, had an unblemished career of service to his country. That’s a very serious offense.

You know, I’m going to take into consideration the 33 years of military service and sacrifice, and I’m going to take into consideration the substantial assistance of several ongoing — several ongoing investigations, but I’m going to also take into consideration the aggravating circumstances, and the aggravating circumstances are serious. Not only did you lie to the FBI, but you lied to senior officials in the Trump Transition Team and Administration. Those lies caused the then-Vice President-Elect, incoming Chief of Staff, and then-Press Secretary to lie to the American people. Moreover, you lied to the FBI about three different topics, and you made those false statements while you were serving as the National Security Advisor, the President of the United States’ most senior national security aid. I can’t minimize that.

Two months later you again made false statements in multiple documents filed pursuant to the Foreign Agents Registration Act. So, all along you were an unregistered agent of a foreign country, while serving as the National Security Advisor to the President of the United States.

I mean, arguably, that undermines everything this flag over here stands for (indicating). Arguably, you sold your country out. The Court’s going to consider all of that. I cannot assure you that if you proceed today you will not receive a sentence of incarceration. But I have to also tell you that at some point, if and when the government says you’ve concluded with your cooperation, you could be incarcerated.

It could be that any sentence of incarceration imposed after your further cooperation is completed would be for less time than a sentence may be today. I can’t make any guarantees, but I’m not hiding my disgust, my disdain for this criminal offense. [my emphasis]

I remain frustrated that Sullivan raised treason at all yesterday, as I spend a great deal of time tamping down discussion of treason; none of the Trump flunkies’ actions that have been thus far revealed reach treason.

But I think I’m beginning to understand what a big deal it was for Flynn to continue to lie about his service for Turkey, even aside from the disgust I share with Sullivan that anyone would engage in such sleazy influence peddling while serving as a key foreign policy advisor for a guy running for President.

Flynn did a lot of really sleazy things. There was no discussion yesterday, for example, about how he gleefully worked on cashing in with nuclear deals even while Trump was being inaugurated. The public lacks both a full accounting of his sleazy actions and full understanding of their import for national security.

Mueller’s team thinks Flynn’s cooperation has been so valuable that it should wipe away most punishment for those sleazy actions. Emmet Sullivan, having read a great deal of secret information, is not so sure.


Election Day, 2016:
Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/world/europe/turkey-flynn-erdogan-gulen.html
Turkey Cheered by Words of Michael Flynn, Trump’s Security Adviser
By Rod Nordland
Nov. 19, 2016

ISTANBUL — Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, the designated national security adviser for the incoming Trump administration, once wrote on Twitter that it was “rational” to fear Muslims, but that does not seem likely to cause him any grief with Turkey’s government, even though it is led by a religiously conservative Muslim, Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Ankara has paid far more attention to General Flynn’s full-throated support for Mr. Erdogan’s government, and especially its wish to extradite the Islamic scholar Fethullah Gulen from his sanctuary in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania.

General Flynn wrote an article published in The Hill on Election Day calling on the United States to be more sympathetic to the concerns of Turkey, a NATO ally, and embracing Mr. Erdogan’s position that Mr. Gulen is an extremist who was behind the failed July coup against his government.
Quote
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/foreign-policy/305021-our-ally-turkey-is-in-crisis-and-needs-our-support
Our ally Turkey is in crisis and needs our support
BY LT. GEN. MICHAEL T. FLYNN (R), CONTRIBUTOR - 11/08/16 05:46 PM EST

Mr. Gulen and his supporters deny that, and depict him as a moderate more concerned with building thousands of schools than with toppling Turkey’s government. Mr. Gulen was once an ally of Mr. Erdogan, but they had a falling out.....

Quote
Flynn 'Lied to Investigators' About Russia Trip, Says Top House Dem ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/flynn-lied-investigators-about-russia-trip-says-top-house-dem-n763216
May 22, 2017 - Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn appears to have ... The actual source of the funds for General Flynn's trip was not a U.S. company, but the Russian media propaganda arm, RT." The head table of a gala celebrating the tenth anniversary of Russia ... "I was asked by my speakers bureau, LAI.
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:RT_(TV_network)
RT talk page
...RT is a brand of "TV-Novosti", an "autonomous non-profit organization", founded by the Russian news agency, RIA Novosti, on 6 April 2005.[1][8] During the economic crisis in December 2008, the Russian government, headed by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, included ANO "TV-Novosti" on its list of core organizations of strategic importance of Russia.[9][10][11]

RT has been frequently described as a propaganda outlet for the Russian government[12] and its foreign policy.[13][14][15][16][17][18] RT has also been accused of spreading disinformation[18][19][20] by news reporters,[21][22] including some former RT reporters.[23][24][25] The United Kingdom media regulator, Ofcom, has repeatedly found RT to have breached its rules on impartiality and on one occasion found it had broadcast "materially misleading" content.[26][27][28][29] RT's editor-in-chief compared it with the Russian Army and Defence Ministry, and talked about it "waging the information war against the entire Western world."[30] In September 2017, RT America was ordered to register as a "foreign agent" with the United States Department of Justice under the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Under the act, RT will be required to disclose financial information.[31]...

Quote
Guess Who Came to Dinner With Flynn and Putin - NBC News
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/guess-who-came-dinner-flynn-putin-n742696
Apr 18, 2017 - The head table of a gala celebrating the tenth anniversary of Russia .... Jill Stein was the only American besides Flynn at the head table.RT.

Senate Russia investigators are interested in Jill Stein
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-are-senate-russia-investigators-interested-jill-stein-n831261
Dec 20, 2017 - Michael Flynn and Jill Stein of the U.S. Green Party. .... Most famously, Stein helped celebrate RT's 10th anniversary in Moscow in December ...


Disclaimer: I prefer to err on the opposite side of what obviously benefits Putin and his poodles, Greenwald and... I read wikipedia "talk" pages because they display the competition of opinions and the quality of the support of the details that sustain in the actual wikipedia article.

If you perceive those politicians most pro-Putin are victims of American journalists reporting "fake news," possibly the core problem is not the reporting?

Tucker Carlson, John Solomon, Hannity sponsored Sara Carter, vs.....

It appears to me Rep. Gabbard was raised by a scoundrel.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mike_Gabbard
Talk:Mike Gabbard

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tulsi_Gabbard_2020_presidential_campaign#Smear_campaign
Talk:Tulsi Gabbard 2020 presidential campaign

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Stephen_F._Cohen
Talk:Stephen F. Cohen


Quote
https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/8/2/20751789/kamala-harris-destroyed-tulsi-gabbard-bots-google
.......
2020 is going to be a doozy online.
By Emily Stewart Aug 2, 2019, 4:20pm EDT

Quote
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/russia-s-propaganda-machine-discovers-2020-democratic-candidate-tulsi-gabbard-n964261

Feb. 2, 2019, 7:03 AM ESTBy Robert Windrem and Ben Popken
The Russian propaganda machine that tried to influence the 2016 U.S. election is now promoting the presidential aspirations of a controversial Hawaii Democrat who earlier this month declared her intention to run for president in 2020.

An NBC News analysis of the main English-language news sites employed by Russia in its 2016 election meddling shows Rep. Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, who is set to make her formal announcement Saturday, has become a favorite of the sites Moscow used when it interfered in 2016.

Several experts who track websites and social media linked to the Kremlin have also seen what they believe may be the first stirrings of an upcoming Russian campaign of support for Gabbard.....
Quote
The Cold War Ides of March | The Nation

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-cold-war-ides-of-march/
Mar 20, 2019 - By Stephen F. Cohen .... Herself a veteran of the US military forces, Representative Gabbard soldiers on, the only would-be Democratic ...

....In a post-debate analysis, Maureen Linke and Eliza Collins at the Wall Street Journal found that hundreds of social media accounts with “bot-like traits” promoted information and content that sought to inflame racial divisions during the debates. They found that certain hashtags originated with conservative activists, but then it seemed like bots were helping to spread them.For example, on Tuesday, a user named Susannah Faulkner first shared the hashtag #DemDebateSoWhite, and then Ali Alexander, a Republican operative who sparked a racist birther-like campaign about Harris during the first round of debates, retweeted it. And on Wednesday, conservative commentator Terrence K. Williams started the #KamalaHarrisDestroyed hashtag after Harris’s onstage exchange with Gabbard.
In both instances, the Journal, citing data from analytics company Storyful, found that a high number of the accounts that interacted with and spread the tweets and hashtags had “bot-like characteristics.”...

Quote
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/20/politics/tulsi-gabbard-fake-news-russia/index.html

Tulsi Gabbard invokes Trump's 'fake news' rhetoric to push back on report of Russia-linked support
By Devan Cole, CNN

Updated 12:09 PM ET, Mon May 20, 2019
....Appearing on ABC's "This Week," Gabbard was asked about her record on Russia by host George Stephanopoulos, who cited an article published last week by The Daily Beast titled "Tulsi Gabbard's Campaign Is Being Boosted by Putin Apologists."

The piece said her campaign was being "underwritten by some of the nation's leading Russophiles," citing donations from three supporters of the Kremlin and Russian President Vladimir Putin. The piece noted that Gabbard, who represents Hawaii, "is one of her party's more Russia-friendly voices in an era of deep Democratic suspicion of the country over its efforts to tip the 2016 election in favor" of Trump.....

May 19, 2019: Rep. Gabbard defends herself using a phrase made familiar by......despite having fifteen weeks to compose a defense without that phrase. :
Quote
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-19-19-rep-tulsi-gabbard-john/story?id=63130784
'This Week' Transcript 5-19-19: Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, John Hickenlooper, Rep. Seth Moulton and Gen. David Petraeus

ByABC NEWS May 19, 2019, 9:53 AM ET

....GABBARD: You know, it’s unfortunate that you’re citing that article, George, because it’s a whole lot of fake news. What I am focused on is what is in the best interest of the American people, what is in the best interest of our national security, keeping the American people safe.....

Quote
https://www.thedailybeast.com/tulsi-gabbards-campaign-is-being-boosted-by-russophiles
СОБАКА BITES ЧЕЛОВЕК

Tulsi Gabbard’s Campaign Is Being Boosted by Putin Apologists The Hawaii congresswoman is quickly becoming the top candidate for Democrats who think the Russian leader is misunderstood. Lachlan Markay
Reporter Sam Stein Politics Editor
Updated 05.17.19 11:49AM ET /
...Hawaii Rep. Tulsi Gabbard’s campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination is being underwritten by some of the nation’s leading Russophiles.

Donors to her campaign in the first quarter of the year included: Stephen F. Cohen, a Russian studies professor at New York University and prominent Kremlin sympathizer; Sharon Tennison, a vocal Putin supporter who nonetheless found herself detained by Russian authorities in 2016; and an employee of the Kremlin-backed broadcaster RT, who appears to have donated under the alias “Goofy Grapes.”

« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 02:58:14 AM by Tom Scully »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2019, 02:35:49 AM »

Online Bill Chapman

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2019, 04:24:26 AM »
Alex Jones was ostracized long ago. What about the 'we hate Trump and everyone that looks like him' radical psychopathic antifa loons and that all this assassination of Trump by impeachment stuff that is supposed to be EXPOSING the truth by holding everything in deep state secret?
It's deep alright   



« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 04:25:13 AM by Bill Chapman »

Online Tom Scully

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2019, 08:29:15 AM »
Robert Reeves and anyone else of the UK, I am very interested in reading your opinions on this researcher.

Quote
https://caltonjock.com/wish-us-luck/
......
I am just one of, “Jock Tamson’s bairn’s”. All my life I have yearned for the day when Scotland would be free of the United Kingdom, UK an arrangement entered into over 300 years ago at the time a few so called, ” Scottish Lords” took a few pockets of English gold and sold their nation to a German King and his cohorts in England. ...

These are examples of the first of any reporting about Joseph Mifsud, beginning on 30 October, 2017.:
Quote
Who’s who in the George Papadopoulos court documents: The Post has identified several of the unnamed individuals who were in contact with the Trump campaign adviser.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/whos-who-in-the-george-papadopoulos-court-documents/2017/10/30/e131158c-bdb3-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html
Helderman, Rosalind S.The Washington Post (Online), Washington, D.C.: WP Company LLC d/b/a The Washington Post. Oct 31, 2017.
...[Papadopoulos] out of his hair," she said. "The Professor": Joseph hitMifsud...
...hitMifsud, who formerly served as a government official in Malta. hitMifsud did not...
...Papadopoulos met hitMifsud in March 2016 while traveling in Italy, according to...

Top campaign officials knew of Trump adviser’s outreach to Russia: George Papadopoulos sought to arrange meetings between the campaign and Russian leadership.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaign-adviser-pleaded-guilty-to-lying-about-russian-contacts/2017/10/30/d525e712-bd7d-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html
Helderman, Rosalind S; Hamburger, Tom.The Washington Post (Online), Washington, D.C.: WP Company LLC d/b/a The Washington Post. Oct 30, 2017.
...as Joseph hitMifsud, the director of the London Academy of Diplomacy. That...
... Mifsud told The Post in an email in August that he had "absolutely no contact...

Three former Trump campaign officials charged by special counsel: The charges were the first criminal allegations in the investigation into possible links between the Trump campaign and Russia.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/manafort-and-former-business-partner-asked-to-surrender-in-connection-with-special-counsel-probe/2017/10/30/6fe051f0-bd67-11e7-959c-fe2b598d8c00_story.html
Zapotosky, Matt; Helderman, Rosalind S; Leonnig, Carol D; Hsu, Spencer S.The Washington Post (Online), Washington, D.C.: WP Company LLC d/b/a The Washington Post. Oct 30, 2017.
...identified the professor with whom he met as Joseph Mifsud, the director of the...

Timeline: How a Trump adviser tried to work with the Russian government
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/10/30/timeline-how-a-trump-adviser-tried-to-work-with-the-russian-government/
Bump, Philip.The Washington Post (Online), Washington, D.C.: WP Company LLC d/b/a The Washington Post. Oct 30, 2017.
...on Monday that the professor is likely Joseph hitMifsud, the director of the...
...Duma and a "Valdai meeting." (There is such a meeting on April 19 that hitMifsud...

By Mid-November, this Scot seemed well informed.
Quote
https://caltonjock.com/2017/11/17/trump-putin-congressional-investigation-moving-finger-of-fate-pointing-at-the-tory-party-and-stirling-university-on-the-hook-as-well/
Trump – Putin Congressional Investigation – Moving Finger of Fate Pointing at the Tory Party and Stirling University on the Hook as Well
    George Papadopoulos     Papadopoulos and His Bid For Political Stardom George Demetrios Papadopoulos was born in August 1987 in Chicago, Cook County, Illinois. He graduated from DePaul University in 2009 with a degree in political science and government. Richard Farkas, a Russian politics professor at DePaul University, on discovering that his former … Continue reading“Trump – Putin Congressional Investigation – Moving Finger of Fate Pointing at the Tory Party and Stirling University on the Hook as Well”

Posted on November 17, 2017.....
Quote
https://caltonjock.com/2017/11/19/bogus-colleges-bogus-students-bogus-diplomas-bogus-directors-backdoor-immigration-on-an-industrial-scale-need-to-undo-the-gordian-knot/
Bogus Colleges – Bogus Student’s – Bogus Diploma’s – Bogus Directors – Backdoor Immigration on an Industrial Scale – Need to Undo the Gordian Knot
19 November, 2017
.....
12 Nov 2017: College chums: another academic link in the Mifsud puzzle

The London School of Executive Training (LSET) is a dynamic institution located in the heart of London with a “world-renowned” teaching faculty…..or so its website says...

Weeks later, this "opus" appeared.:
Quote
https://caltonjock.com/2017/12/05/the-longest-word-jigsaw-i-have-ever-compiled-i-know-it-all-links-but-can-you-work-it-out-a-clue-it-all-points-to-a-near-400-billion-rip-off/
5 December, 2017
The Longest Word Jigsaw I Have Ever Compiled – I know It All Links – But Can You Work It Out – A Clue – It All Points to a near £400 Billion Rip Off
        The Trump-Russia Saga The 2017 Special Counsel inquisition is an ongoing investigation in the United States led by former FBI Director Robert Mueller as special counsel under supervision of the United States Department of Justice. Mueller is exploring any coordination or Criminal conspiracy between Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and the … Continue reading“The Longest Word Jigsaw I Have Ever Compiled – I know It All Links – But Can You Work It Out – A Clue – It All Points to a near £400 Billion Rip Off”
.......
On the same day, Mueller’s team revealed that former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos had admitted making false statements to FBI agents about contacts he had with Russian citizens while working for the Trump campaign in 2016.

What is potentially unravelling is a series of events so huge it covers international espionage, off-shore banks, dodgy real estate deals, mobsters, money laundering, poisoned dissidents, computer hacking, and the most shocking election in American history.

This article provides detail supporting contact/ links between:

Paul Manafort, Rick Gares, Michael Flynn, George Papadopoulous, Professor Joseph Mifsud, Stephan Claus Roh,Prasenjit Kumar Singh, Boris Johnson, Alok Sharma, Andrew Colin, Jeffrey T Leeds, Colin Powell, The Hon. Rupert Soames OBE and many other persons of interest.

It also provides evidence of working relationships within/between the following organisations:

INTO university partnerships, Leeds Equity Partners, The London Academy of Diplomacy, Stirling University, The London School of Executive Training (LSET), The Vavaldi Club, The Brexit Campaign, The Tory Party, The Link Campus University in Italy, ‘Globalistics’ in Moscow
......
About Joseph Mifsud

Born in Malta in 1960 his career began at the University of Malta where he became head of the education faculty in 1993.

He also claimed to have “served prominently” in the Maltese foreign ministry and to have played a “vital” role in Malta’s joining of EU in 2004……..though it’s doubtful whether he actually did....
Quote
https://caltonjock.com/2017/11/23/trump-russia-for-profit-education-the-gordian-knot-unravelled-multi-billion-profits-at-risk-with-a-clinton-presidency-so-she-had-to-go/
Trump – Russia – For Profit Education – The Gordian Knot Unravelled – Multi Billion Profits at Risk With A Clinton Presidency – So She Had to Go
        The Trump-Russia Story The 2017 Special Counsel investigation is an ongoing investigation in the United States led by former FBI Director Robert Mueller as special counsel under supervision of the United States Department of Justice. Mueller is exploring any coordination or Criminal conspiracy between Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and the … Continue reading“Trump – Russia – For Profit Education – The Gordian Knot Unravelled – Multi Billion Profits at Risk With A Clinton Presidency – So She Had to Go”
....

Four months later, he seems headed in the opposite direction, Trump becomes a victim...
Quote
https://caltonjock.com/2018/04/14/dirty-tricks-trumpgate-and-skripal-all-roads-lead-to-london-and-mi6/
Dirty Tricks – Trumpgate and Skripal – All Roads Lead to London and MI6
April 14, 2018
Note:  This article is a follow up to the undernoted link. (https://caltonjock.com/2017/11/17/trump-putin-congressional-investigation-moving-finger-of-fate-pointing-at-the-tory-party-and-stirling-university-on-the-hook-as-well/)       Boris Johnson – Trump – The Tory party Three senior past and present Foreign Office ministers, including the foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, were targeted by individuals identified by the FBI as central to their investigation … Continue reading

Three months later, Obama "victimized" Trump.:
Quote
https://caltonjock.com/2018/06/05/putin-trump-helsinki-summit-us-press-corps-and-many-political-false-prophets-disgracefully-keep-the-pot-boiling-against-their-elected-president/
Putin Trump Helsinki Summit US Press Corps and Many Political False Prophets Disgracefully Keep the Pot Boiling Against Their Elected President
          16 Jul 2018: Helsinki Press Confernce President Putin Denied Russian government interference in the 2016 US Presidential Election President Trump then declined to endorse the US intelligence community’s assessment that Russia interfered in the election. Rebutting a number of  pointedly questionable  negative comments by a member of  the press corps he … Continue reading

I am still confident the facts contradict "Calton Jock's last two posts, but I am willing to read and consider facts supported opinions in disagreement.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 09:00:10 AM by Tom Scully »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2019, 08:29:15 AM »

Offline Zeon Mason

  • Sr. Member
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  • Posts: 287
Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2019, 04:05:13 PM »
since 2003 and the Beyond Conspiracy "documentary" which was an elaborate effort by the leftward leaning media to repackage the WC report with computer simulation graphics, there has been increasing pressure to accept the WC report as "Case Closed".

All the more reason to suspect there IS a deep state that exists and it HAS been trying to shadow ban certain points of view, ofA which Alex Jones is a perfect example of how far the Google/Apple/Facebook technocracy is willing to go to silence dissenting views.

So I remain a Skeptic at the least if not an outright CT because this conflagration of media with repetitive talking points and banning and coercive effort to suggest politically correct speech is exactly what a deep state that was involved in the JFK assassination, would do, imho.


Offline Robert Reeves

  • Jr. Member
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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2019, 06:06:56 PM »
Tom, several years ago when Cyprus' financially collapsed (2013) *can't remember where* I heard or read about Cyprus worrying western intelligence agencies due the close relationship with Putin/Russia there. Russia was going to fill the void. And then I remember on UK tv the discussion at the time because there was a growing influence of Russias 'Mafia' on the island. First I'd heard of it, I thought Cyprus was still a British colony, but I guess we let it go -- In hindsight, a mistake! Looks like everybody is after a piece of the action there. Another glorious own goal!

https://in-cyprus.com/the-russian-mafia-is-here/

Quote
A ‘branch’ of the Russian mafia is present in Cyprus and has close ties with the parental organisation which keeps its ‘branches’ under close control by applying a strong hierarchy and strict rules.

This conclusion was reached after the testimony given by Georgios Theodoridis, a 57-year-old Georgian. Theodoridis was arrested on February 8th for the murder of 47-year-old Ernesto Leonidis.

The team of Georgians involved in the murder appear to have been members of the criminal organisation. Theodoridis’s statement also mentions that the organisation keeps a treasury holding the revenue earned from their criminal activities and pays in this way the ‘wages’ of those involved, always according to instructions of the of the parental organisation in Russia. There is a strict hierarchy, a division in terms of different activity, and a clear distribution of tasks and responsibilities

A sub-group was in Limassol and the victim, Leonidis, was its leader and the one who controlled the Georgians in Cyprus. One of his murderers and a member of the illegal criminal organisation in Russia was opposed to him because Leonidis was trying to direct the criminal elements in Cyprus towards not committing any serious offenses. This reduced the illegal income and bothered the parental organisation.


https://in-cyprus.com/relations-between-cyprus-and-russia-developing-positively-says-putin/

Quote
Russia’s President Vladimir Putin and Cyprus President Nicos Anastasiades referred to the  close relations between Cyprus and the Russian Federation during a meeting on the sidelines of the Belt and Road Forum, organised in Beijing by the Chinese government.

A Presidency statement said that during the meeting, Putin, speaking through an interpreter, noted relations between Cyprus and Russia are based on “mutual respect. We have an excellent dialogue and remain in contact and have fine economic relations. Commerce increased by 154%”, he said, adding that more emphasis should be given on increasing direct contact with business people from both countries. He said that relations are developing positively.

On his part, Anastasiades said relations are increasingly strengthened and there is no doubt that Cyprus is grateful for Russia’s longstanding support on the political and economic level. Equally important is the military assistance that Russia gave to Cyprus when others refused to sell armament to Cyprus for its basic defence.

The President noted Russia’s decisive stance on the Cyprus issue, adding that knowing the excellent relations developing between Russia and Turkey, “I believe Russia’s intervention might prove more effective in efforts to solve the Cyprus problem”.

Cyprus has been divided since 1974, when Turkey invaded and occupied its northern third.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/17/welcome-to-limassolgrad-the-city-getting-rich-on-russian-money

Quote
Welcome to Limassolgrad: the city getting rich on Russian money

The skyline in Cyprus is changing rapidly with rich Russians moving in to claim a little slice of the EU

Nearly five years on from Cyprus’s near financial collapse and bailout, Limassol is undergoing a property development boom fuelled by Russian money.

In the marina of the island state’s second largest city, opened in 2014 by the president, Nicos Anastasiades, super-yachts are berthed in front of €15m villas along with their support ships carrying helicopters and other accoutrements of the super rich.

Look to the marina’s east and the skyline is beginning to fill up with high-rise luxury apartment developments. Look west and by 2021 Europe’s biggest casino resort is due to have opened its doors. The €550m investment aims to attract at least 300,000 tourists and 11,000 jobs.

It is Russians who are flocking to Limassol, snapping up properties along the island’s southern coast. Many are “buy to leave” investors, with most of the villas around the marina left empty by owners who prefer to live elsewhere.

It is all far removed from the island’s near financial meltdown at the height of its banking crisis in 2013. The EU and IMF were forced to step in with a $10bn financial lifeline when it became clear that Cypriot banks, exposed to gargantuan levels of Greek debt, were at the point of collapse.

Limassol has long been a magnet for affluent Russian expatriates, with the city earning the moniker “Limassolgrad” partly because of its reputation as a hub for offshore Russian finance and those wanting to hide their riches.

In the wake of perestroika, the 50,000-strong Russian community has grown exponentially. Shops with Cyrillic signage abound alongside Russian newspapers, radio stations, schools and churches.

But while focus on the expatriates has sharpened as investigators home in on Russian links to the inner circle of the US president, Donald Trump, Cypriot authorities are eager to lure ever more.

“We hold about six seminars a year promoting Cyprus across Russia,” says Antis Nathanael, head of the Cyprus Russian business association in Nicosia. “The 300 Cypriot companies in our directory have 90% of their operations in Russia and are worth around 80% of the wealth of Cyprus. We share the same religion and they love our sun. With Brexit, I am now working on bringing oligarchs over from London.”

Limassol’s changing skyline is also testimony to Cyprus’ Russian love-in. Under a money-for-passports programme instituted to help boost economic recovery, foreigners can become Cypriot citizens in a mere six months if they invest €2m in property.[/b]

Lawyers readily admit that the pickings have been rich. Russians desperate for a passport that will give them and their families easy access to other EU countries have led the wave. Last year the finance minister, Harris Georgiades, admitted that the controversial business model had injected around €4bn in foreign investment into the Cypriot economy – nearly 25% of the island’s GDP.

“If they are going to pay €2m for a property, why not get a passport as well,” quipped Christodoulides.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-10/cyprus-loses-luster-as-mediterranean-haven-for-russian-business

Quote
While the world's wealthy have abundant choices for passports and residency permits – from old standbys in the Caribbean to EU rivals such as Malta – Cyprus is the fastest, the consultants say. The nation's EU membership also makes its passport a golden ticket. The burgundy-red booklet allows travel to 147 countries, including the UK and Japan, without getting a visa in advance. That's a globetrotter's dream compared with Russia's 105, a figure taken from an index compiled by Montreal-based Arton Capital, which advises clients seeking passports.A US program offering residency rights in exchange for investment is under renewed scrutiny after press reports that companies associated with White House adviser and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner have been pitching it to Chinese investors.

The sale of EU citizenship has raised concern among anti-corruption advocates, who say the practice opens gaping gateways into the 28-nation bloc.“That’s a back door,” said Miklos Ligeti, legal director of Transparency International Hungary, which has published research on alleged abuses in a Hungarian program that exchanges residency for bond investments. Russians and others who obtain Cyprus passports, but don't actually live there, are unfairly buying EU access, he said. “Giving residency permits to rich people just because they are rich is against the principle of equal opportunity.” The European Parliament passed a nonbinding resolution in 2014 that declared: “EU citizenship should never become a tradable commodity.” During the debate at the Strasbourg-based legislature, Romania's Sebastian Bodu protested that European passports would give visa-free travel to cash-rich Chinese and Russians. Any “gangster or oligarch will be able to do this unhindered if he has a bank account,” he said. “This seems to me to be rather outrageous and unfair.” In the case of Cyprus, there are signs he was right. One reason Russians have loaded up on passports is that Cypriot citizenship helps them avoid the prying eyes of their government and pay lower taxes. It also may make it easier to move money, because banks see them as benign locals rather than potentially suspicious foreigners.The resurgence of Russian money in Cyprus has become important on the world stage because it keeps popping up in news about links between Trump's team and Russia.

Former campaign manager Paul Manafort used Cypriot bank accounts to receive money from Russian tycoon Oleg Deripaska and Ukrainian clients, according to court records and former executives at the bank where the accounts were kept. Manafort and Deripaska have said the accounts were opened for legitimate business transactions.

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross invested in Bank of Cyprus after the bailout, becoming vice-chairman of the island's largest lender for a time. The bank’s biggest individual investor: Russian billionaire Viktor Vekselberg. Thanks to the inflows of Russian money, Ross’s investment, still under water, isn’t a total flop.

But Cyprus’s passport popularity may become the revival’s undoing. Some advisers who help foreigners get citizenship are starting to worry that the swelling number of new Cypriots will cause the EU to pressure the country to make the citizenship process harder. If that happens, Russians looking to hide their riches might have to shop around again for new nationalities.
--


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-passports-for-sale-in-sunny-cyprus-lure-rich-russians-and-their-cash-a7732326.html

https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-browder-cyprus-accused-of-abetting-russian-money-laundering/

Quote
The anti-corruption and human rights activist Bill Browder is stepping up his campaign against dirty money in Cyprus with a complaint that has triggered a criminal investigation.

Browder, a U.S.-born British financier who has waged a campaign against the Kremlin and Russian organized crime for the past decade, argues that the case is symptomatic of much deeper problems with money laundering in Cyprus.

“From our experience, Russian organized crime has fully infiltrated Cyprus law enforcement and this is a prime example,” Browder said in an interview.

Campaigners and investigators have long identified Cyprus as a major destination for illicit Russian cash, and have accused Cypriot authorities of failing to crack down. The authorities say they have taken steps in recent years to address the problem. “I think the Cypriot authorities are effectively welcoming Russian laundered funds by not creating any consequences for the launderers,” Browder said. “Russia has been using Cyprus as the Trojan horse to getting money into Europe. It’s one of the weak links for Europe to fight Russian organized crime.”

Remember when Putin went after Browder whilst stood next to Trump in Helsinki? and then Trump tweeted about handing Browder over to the Russians to face investigating. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
----

All of this makes sense when you read this. As per usual, follow the money.

https://www.dw.com/en/cyprus-gas-discoveries-spark-us-russian-gamesmanship/a-48585334 

Quote
Earlier this year, ExxonMobil, together with Qatar Petroleum, found the third large gas reservoir off the coast of Cyprus. Known as the Glaucus-1 field, this latest discovery will add to the inventory of Eastern Mediterranean gas reservoirs coming online in neighboring Israeli and Egyptian territorial waters[/b], which are expected to form a new energy hub for regional and, possibly, export markets.

At the same time, officials in Washington are increasingly expressing support for cooperation between Israel, Cyprus and Greece in developing the reserves as a measure to counter both growing Russian influence in the Eastern Mediterranean, and also Turkish hostility towards gas development in Cyprus' territorial waters, where both have claims to energy resources.

The move signifies the return of direct US involvement in a region, where it has been largely absent in recent years as Russia strengthened its positions on the Syrian coast. Some officials in Washington and Europe also see the development of Eastern Mediterranean gas fields as a potential alternative energy source to Russian gas imports, through what is being called the East Med pipeline, which would run from Israel and Egypt through Cyprus, Greece and then onward to Italian and European markets.

I've been following Papadopoulos' twitter timeline and he's been saying some interesting stuff. And he started mentioning Cyprus. It triggered my memory of the Russian mafia influence on the island! It started to make sense why he became a target!










He's open and honest about what he got into. But who did, or does he work for?

Ok so when this whole Russiagate stuff began I remember Papadopoulos described as a 'lower ranking member' of Trump's campaign. Trump called him 'Low Level'. “Few people knew the young, low level volunteer named George, who has already proven to be a liar,” from a tweet https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/925335577217683456

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/us/politics/trump-manafort-papadopoulos-mueller.html

From those Papadopoulos tweets you can see yourself there's no way this was some lower level member of the team, especially if you are one of the nations fighting for control of Cyprus' gas. This guy was potentially advising the next POTUS. Cyprus has massive significance for European energy independence. Plus all their shady stuff with passports and money laundering. Right now Europeans are hooked on Russian gas - a BIG security problem. Surely someone told Trump this? State dept briefing? Do candidates get briefings on these things? I presume Papadopoulos has no state dept or previous government links, and yet he could have been brokering some significant future energy decisions in a very tricky area of the world right now. BIG BIG national importance for a lot of people. Papadopoulos introduced Trump to the Egyptian leader just 2 months before the election. Trump may, or may not -- which would be pretty shocking -- but it appears Papadopoulos knew the significance of what is going on between Cyprus>Turkey>Israel>Egypt>Russia>USA (and throw into that group all the Europeans). This is kinda ridiculous that Trump walked into this mess. Massive stakes, and he seems clueless!

And then when you throw into the mix Gen. Flynn's link to the Turkish government, this is big time potential conflict of interests. Gen. Flynn is wide open to compromise and leverage as an undeclared foreign agent for Turkish interests, in such an important area dealing with Turkey/Russia/Cyprus/Israel/Egypt

To me, it makes sense why both Flynn and Papadouplos were being monitored by *lets say* the IC. Plural agencies 'spying' on them. *And I say that as someone who initially thought Trump was right, that he, and his team were spied on* But, Papadouplos & Flynn, they both have major conflicts of interests. Papadouplos' are unknown? he seems to have randomly got himself into a position where he might have been given a Trump government position -- but yet his background is unverifiable.Surely he had to be monitored, for his own safety! Flynn is extremely wreckless. The guy must have known more about what was going on right now with Cyprus and Turkey>Russia, it would be ridiculous, he, a former head of DIA never declared his interests -- kinda worrying that there are people like Flynn in governments exposing nations to blackmail based decisions.

It's going to be interesting to see if Bidens are tangled up in this Cyprus/Ukrainian corruption, as Papadouplos alleges. I think he might know the truth, more than many. Which might explain Obama wanting to cover Biden's ass. The Trump team conveniently gave Obama's government enough concerns to investigate Flynn and Papadouplos, plus Manafort. They made it easy to be framed with Russia through Papadouplos and Fynn's pretty serious compromising connections.

There was smoke. As I think Brennan or Clapper said, about Russia and Trump's campaign. But the fire might also be for Biden/Obama's crew!

The experiment of having 'outsiders', like Trump, in government, has failed. Having someone without experience, plus his crap advisors around him, it's got him sucked into making many poor decisions. Manafort, Wilbur Ross, and Papadouplos, Flynn, all tangled up in Cypriot shenanigans. Obama was definitely right when he advised Trump not to hire Flynn. Flynn is so reckless -- Obama probably meant 'for all our sakes' don't hire Flynn. Knowing Flynn's conflict of interests would eventually also shed light on the dodgy dealings of the Biden's and whatever happened on Obama's watch elsewhere.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/us/politics/hunter-biden-ukraine.html

Quote
Diplomat Told House Investigators He Raised Alarm About Hunter Biden in 2015
A career State Department official told House impeachment investigators that he raised concerns about the vice president’s son serving on the board of a Ukrainian company, but was ignored.

WASHINGTON — A career State Department official told impeachment investigators this week that he raised concerns with a senior White House official in 2015 about the son of then-Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. holding a position on the board of a Ukrainian gas company.

But the warning from George P. Kent, then a State Department officer stationed in Kiev, was not acted on, according to two people familiar with Mr. Kent’s testimony. Mr. Kent, now of the State Department’s Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs, said he told the official that Hunter Biden’s position could look like a conflict of interest, given his father’s role, and would complicate American efforts to encourage Ukraine to clean up corruption.

Obama wont be endorsing Biden! guaranteed!

And I wont be type the name Papadopoulos for a while!

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2019, 06:06:56 PM »

Online Tom Scully

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 845
Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2019, 06:33:33 PM »
since 2003 and the Beyond Conspiracy "documentary" which was an elaborate effort by the leftward leaning media to repackage the WC report with computer simulation graphics, there has been increasing pressure to accept the WC report as "Case Closed".

All the more reason to suspect there IS a deep state that exists and it HAS been trying to shadow ban certain points of view, ofA which Alex Jones is a perfect example of how far the Google/Apple/Facebook technocracy is willing to go to silence dissenting views.

So I remain a Skeptic at the least if not an outright CT because this conflagration of media with repetitive talking points
and banning and coercive effort to suggest politically correct speech is exactly what a deep state that was involved in the JFK assassination, would do, imho.

It's only the future of my country hanging in the balance....keep right on sipping the Trump-Putin Kool-Ade, why don't you?
Or, perhaps you have extraordinary discernment, and despite all of my verfiable facts, I am the one duped by the "deep state" plotters against our "victim-in-chief" in the White House? BTW, I included an article on Sapir dated in year 2000 and on Russian mob names in Brighton Beach dated 1994. Even the imaginary "deep state" would find it difficult to "fake" those articles.

And.. to set this thread up, here is 2008 reporting by the man who later hired the former MI-6 one-time covert Moscow Agent:
Quote
Russia's Deripaska Faces Western Investigations - WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122359420472121077
Oct 10, 2008 - ..Attorney General Michael Mukasey, citing Russia and Central Asian nations, said that underworld figures' growing clout in energy and strategic-materials.. Glenn R. Simpson at glenn.simpson@wsj.com and..

House Ex-Staffer Caught in Probe - WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB121306664542359865
Jun 10, 2008 - Attorney General Michael Mukasey in April said the government has reconvened its long-dormant federal Organized Crime Council to combat what he called a new ... Write to ..Glenn R. Simpson at glenn.simpson@wsj.com ..

Eleven years later:
Quote
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-latest-russia-conspiracy-busted-why-the-feds-settled-the-prevezon-case
Trump's Latest Russia Conspiracy Busted—Why the Feds Settled..
Harry Siegel 07.17.17
....
Prevezon was represented at that appeal by Michael Mukasey, the former U.S. attorney general whose son, Marc, has been rumored as a potential replacement for Bharara in the SDNY.

(As if this wasn’t complicated enough: Michael Mukasey is also currently working along with Marc’s law partner, Rudy Giuliani, for Reza Zarrab, the Turk close with that country’s leadership charged by Bharara with busting Iran sanctions. The pair have told the judge in that case that they were retained to find an extrajudicial resolution—...—to get their client off the hook.)

“The SDNY refused when Veselnitskaya wanted that renewal” last January, the official said. “At the time she met with Donald Trump, Jr., she was not here on its authority.”

The SDNY also tried to use its authority to remove her translator, Samochornov, who later accompanied her to the Trump Tower meeting, from the Prevezon case, telling the judge that he was “really a member of the defense team,” ....
https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/01/10/the-misrepresentations-of-the-simpson-veselnitskaya-meetings/
The Misrepresentations of the Simpson-Veselnitskaya Meetings
January 10, 2018
..while it supports that Simpson saw Veselnitskaya at the court hearing (meaning Veselnitskaya is wrong on that point), it doesn’t support that she came from or returned to a meeting with Simpson directly before and after the Trump Tower meeting. Instead, it seems to support the case that Veselnitskaya and Simpson saw each other three days in succession because the Prevezon hearing was the stated purpose of her visit to the US. And Simpson’s claim that linguistic barriers prevented them from chatting that much seems credible.

..why the claim that Veselnitskaya had met with Simpson got leaked to Fox..

Quote
https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2007/12/27/what-do-susan-sarandon-and-alan-dershowitz-have-in-common/
What Do Susan Sarandon, Alan Dershowitz and the Russian Mob Have in Common?
December 27, 2007 By Richard Silverstein
Susan Sarandon, Denise Rich..
...Lev Leviev is not a member of the Russian mob. He’s way beyond that..

..Recently, Leviev decided to expand his diamond and real estate business to New York, where he owns property worth well over $1 billion including the Plaza Hotel and New York Times building ($525 million). The store opening and accompanying protest was covered by The Forward and JTA,..

As the photo above indicates, Leviev is linked with former Russian mobster and now oligarch, Roman Abramovich in the diamond business. ..Leviev, not to be outdone, also owns an Israeli football club. According to Haaretz, Leviev and Abramovich are among the two largest donors to Elad, whose goal is the “Judaize” East Jerusalem by buying up Arab property and transferring it to Jewish ownership..

...As for Dershowitz, ever the entertaining clown, Dersh must’ve seen the brouhaha and decided he needed to get a slice of Sarandon’s PR. So he went down to the Leviev showroom and came out swinging his shopping bag..he said that he opposed Israeli settlements. How quickly they forget. After watching Dershowitz’s pathetic primping performance in this video...

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Avnerovich_Leviev
Lev Leviev (born July 30, 1956) is an Israeli[3] businessman, philanthropist and investor, of Uzbek Bukhari Jewish background, Known as the "King of Diamonds". Lev Leviev has a net worth of $1.1 billion as of September 2016, [2] and has been a major philanthropist for Hasidic Jewish causes in Eastern Europe and Israel.[4] Beginning in the 1990s, Leviev avoided being directly involved with the Yeltsin family, and nurtured ties with Vladimir Putin.[5][6] His diamond mining investments in Angola and his investments in Israeli settlements have been the target of protests.[7] ..he is president of the World Congress of Bukharian Jews.

......
Money-Laundering

According to an article published in The Guardian on July 24, 2017, Donald Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner sealed real estate deal worth $295m with Lev Avnerovich Leviev's firm cited in money-laundering case. The ties between Trump family real estate deals and Russian money interests are attracting increasing interest from the justice department’s special counsel, Robert Mueller as he is investigating alleged Russia interference in the presidential election.[27]

Quote
https://hillreporter.com/how-cohens-and-manaforts-ukraine-ties-tell-the-deeper-story-of-trump-russia-and-the-mueller-probe-4886
How Cohen’s and Manafort’s Ukraine Ties Tell the Deeper Story of Trump-Russia and the Mueller Probe
BY BRIAN FRYDENBORG August 1, 2018

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/09/nyregion/brass-knuckles-over-2-broadway-mta-landlord-are-fighting-it-over-rent.html
Brass Knuckles Over 2 Broadway; M.T.A. and Landlord Are Fighting It Out Over Rent and Renovations
By CHARLES V. BAGLI AUG. 9, 2000

Mr. Sapir (pronounced suh-PEER), 52, left the Soviet Union in 1973 with a wave of Jewish immigrants. He landed in New York in 1976, where he drove a cab for three years before borrowing $10,000 against his taxi medallion to open a small electronics store. The store, at 200 Fifth Avenue in the Flatiron neighborhood, became a wholesale outlet for Soviet diplomats, K.G.B. agents and Politburo members.

...In the 1980s, Donald Trump bought some 200 televisions for one of his hotels from an electronics store run by Semyon “Sam” Kislin and Tamir Sapir, immigrants from the then-Soviet Republics of Ukraine and Georgia, respectively.  Their store was a known hot-spot for senior government officials, spies, and politicians all from the Soviet Union.

Sapir may have (once) been part of or even come to the U.S. secretly working for the Soviet Ministry of Internal Affairs (at whose academy he had apparently studied). Rumors swirled around the sources of his extremely unlikely and massive wealth.  One of his primary business partners pled guilty to longtime scams with the Gambino Crime family.

As for Sapir’s partner, as I noted in more detail previously, Kislin was a longtime ally of Rudolph Giuliani: a prolific repeat donor to the future-Trump-ally’s mayoral campaigns, with Giuliani as mayor even appointing Kislin to his economic council where he served until Giuliani’s final year as mayor. Kislin would also later serve on another of the city’s economic advisory groups.  By at least the mid-1990s, U.S. authorities believed Kislin had helped launder millions for the Russian mafia, had helped bring in a suspected hired assassin to America, and specifically had been linked by the FBI to Vyacheslav Ivankov’s Russian mob crew based in Brighton Beach as a “member or associate.”

Ivankov—one of the Russian mafia’s top men in America—lived in Trump Tower, had the Trump Organization’s private contact numbers in his address book, and also loved frequently spending time—along with other Russian mobsters at Trump’s Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City, NJ.

Ivankov reported to Russian mafia “boss of bosses” Semion Mogilevich, perhaps the most powerful mobster in the world today, a financial mastermind known for long-term schemes, a top concern of the FBI for decades, and a longtime-friend and ally of current Russia President Vladimir Putin, who shields him to this day from U.S. (and other) authorities.

Mogilevich set up a front company in America in 1995 that would perpetrate a massive stock fraud worth $150 million on the Toronto Stock Exchange. Its ostensible “CEO” was Jacob Bogatin, who made repeated donations in this role to the National Republican Congressional Committee. Jacob’s brother, David Bogatin, had served in the Soviet Army in Vietnam during the Vietnam War, targeting U.S. aircraft.  By the mid-1980s, Bogatin had purchased five Trump Tower apartments that Trump had personally sold to him. By 1990s, he was also a key soldier for Mogilevich.

A man that a U.S. Supreme Court petition for a writ of certiorari alleges was another Mogilevich lieutenant, Mikhael Sheferovsky, had a son, Felix Sater, who, even without his father’s possible relationship with Mogilevich (which Felix denies), ended up having his own ties to the Russian mafia.

Sater was involved in a massive stock fraud and money laundering scheme worth tens of millions. Sater ran his illegal operation in the mid-1990s from an office in none-other-than-Trump-owned 40 Wall Street. It’s well-known that Sater’s plan involved the Russian mafia, but it is not publicly known if Mogilevich was involved. If Mogilevich were involved, it would hardly be surprising because of his involvement in similar stock fraud and money laundering in the U.S. and Canada during the same period.

Many details of Sater’s case remain sealed because he later mysteriously cooperated with the U.S. government on national security issues in a deal made on the government’s side by Andrew Weissmann, then a federal prosecutor and now a key member of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team.

Glenn Simpson (a Fusion GPS opposition research lead investigator on numerous Russian cases including Trump’s connections to Russia and the infamous Prevezon/Magnitsky case, discussed later) also testified to U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee staff that Sater has strong ties to the Mogilevich crew. Specifics on which basis Simpson is alleging this are not clear.

Sater also grew up in Brighton Beach—a neighborhood notorious for being a Russian mafia enclave—and had a friend since childhood from that neighborhood whose uncle ran a catering establishment in New York then popular with the Russian mafia figures.  That friend was Michael Cohen, the same Michael Cohen closse to Trump and at the center of the Stormy Daniels saga.....

......If only Deripaska had a fixer like Michael Cohen, who apparently allegedly regularly paid women who had extramarital sexual affairs with Trump (and at least one other significant Republican Party figure, Elliott Broidy) to be quiet and go away.
Quote
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-a-mcconnell-backed-effort-to-lift-russian-sanctions-boosted-a-kentucky-project/2019/08/13/72b26e00-b97c-11e9-b3b4-2bb69e8c4e39_story.html
How a McConnell-backed effort to lift Russian sanctions boosted a Kentucky project
By Tom Hamburger and Rosalind S. Helderman
August 14, 2019 at 11:10 a.m. EDT
....By the next day, McConnell had successfully blocked the bill, despite the defection of 11 Republicans.

Within weeks, the U.S. government had formally lifted sanctions on Rusal, citing a deal with the company that reduced the ownership interest of its Kremlin-linked founder, Oleg Deripaska. And three months later, Rusal announced plans for an extraordinary partnership with Bouchard’s company, providing $200 million in capital to buy a 40 percent stake in the new aluminum plant in Ashland, Ky. — a project Gov. Matt Bevin (R) boasted was “as significant as any economic deal ever made in the history of Kentucky.”....

Outside a courtroom in mid-April of this year in which the business inside centered on criminal inquiries into his own business dealings, Cohen took time to share cigars with Rotem Rosen and other friends.
Quote
Here is Cohen, with Rotem Rosen to his immediate right, just days after what Trump described as "an attack on our country," the FBI executing search warrants of Cohen, obtained by DOJ, SDNY prosecutors, and signed by a magistrate....
https://twitter.com/ElizLanders/status/984895132276273159

Rosen married Tamir Sapir’s daughter, Zina Sapir, in 2007 at a ceremony hosted by Donald Trump himself at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort, and the next year, Trump and Kushner attended the newlywed couple’s bris for their newborn.

Rosen was the longtime right-hand man of Lev Leviev, a famous Israeli diamond oligarch from the former Soviet republic of Uzbekistan.  Leviev is close and, it seems, a friend to Vladimir Putin, but also is close with the Sapirs, Deripaska, and (another) Russian aluminum oligarch named Roman Abramovich, who is himself close to Putin and was apparently the first to recommend Putin to then-Russian President Boris Yeltsin as a successor.  Abramovich owns the UK club football team Chelsea, and until recently lived in the UK. Following Russia’s shocking recent Skripal chemical nerve agent attack on British soil, the UK declined to renew Abramovich’s visa, and he made aliyah to Israel, instantly becoming that nation’s wealthiest citizen).

When former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko, who had been talking on tape about Putin’s “good relationship” with Mogilevich, among other things, was assassinated with radioactive material in the UK in 2006 on the orders of the Kremlin (not that different from the Skripal poisoning), he was helping both British and Spanish intelligence look into money laundering and organized crime ties surrounding Abramovich.

Ivanka has been very close with Dasha Zhukova, Abramovich’s wife during this period (they separated in mid-2017, and Abramovich has since curiously been spotted with Polina Deripaska, Oleg’s “estranged” wife) for over a decade (introduced, interestingly, by Wendi Deng, then Rupert Murdoch’s wife and more recently a rumored lover/girlfriend of, yes, Vladimir Putin).  Abramovich became acquainted with both Kushner and Ivanka as a result.

His and Putin’s friend Leviev, whose company’s U.S. operations were headquartered at Trump’s 40 Wall St. property (where Sater ran his 1990s’ massive scam), was a business partner of Denis Katsyv, scion of a Putin ally, through Katsyv’s company Prevezon. Their dealings were at the heart of the whole Magnitsky money laundering and Russian sanctions saga that, in turn, led to the infamous June 2016, Trump Tower meeting hosted by Manafort, Kushner, and Donald Jr. with a variety of Russian operatives with deep Kremlin connections.

Leviev later conducted a major business deal with Kushner in 2015 and financing from Deutsche Bank related to that deal is under scrutiny by federal authorities. Deutsche also helped finance Donald Trump for years when few other banks would, and financed the Prevezon deal between Katsyv and Leviev. The Prevezon deal later became the subject of a settled civil case from the local U.S. Attorney’s office and is still the subject of a criminal probe there (a piece I wrote on Prevezon/Magnitsky was even censored in Russia). “Magnitsky” has since become synonymous with a human-rights crusade against Putin, and his Kremlin allies carried out by one Bill Browder, who has been a repeated target of Putin and Russian authorities as a result.

Another money laundering case of note involved the arrest of Mogilevich-linked Russian mobsters in Trump Tower when local boss Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov and his minions Vadim Trincher and Anatoly Golubchik were allegedly overseeing an illegal high-stakes international gambling ring. The ring targeted wealthy clientele and was, in part, operated out of the building (and was the subject of the recent Jessica Chastain movie Molly’s Game).  The gambling ring was popular with Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs in both Russia and Ukraine, and besides the gambling, its ringleaders also engaged in some $100 million in money laundering.

In 2009, Trincher bought an apartment in Trump Tower just below an apartment owned by Donald Trump, in which Trincher nearly held a fundraiser for future-Trump-ally Newt Gingrich two years later. The fundraiser never occurred after a mold problem, and a water leak was detected. Other mobsters in the outfit also owned Trump properties.  The minions did not escape justice in 2013 raids orchestrated by Preet Bharara (later fired by Trump), but Tokhtakhounov did and was soon after a red-carpet VIP guest at Trump’s 2013 Miss Universe Pageant. The two men arrived within minutes of each other, and it is certainly possible they interacted there in Moscow, a city where, to this day, Tokhtakhounov is regularly spotted at trendy public places.

*****

 

Meanwhile, Manafort’s and Gates’ work led to the triumphant rise of Yanukovych’s Party Of Regions and of Yanukovych’s ascent to Ukraine’s presidency in 2010.  Ultimately, the gas scam that empowered those wins precipitated the 2014 (Euro)Maidan revolution, the ouster of Yanukovych, Russia’s annexation of Crimea, and today’s civil war in Ukraine.  At this time, Manafort and Gates were lobbying the U.S. government to improve the corrupt image of Yanukovych’s government, and it was for lying about this work that Alexander van der Zwaan, son-in-law of major Putin-linked Russian oligarch billionaire German Khan, was sentenced in April, the first defendant in Mueller’s Russia probe sentenced to time in prison.

After Trump’s presidential win and eleven days before Trump’s inauguration in January 2017, Cohen met with a Russian oligarch close to Putin and the Kremlin named Viktor Vekselberg, who has been sanctioned by the U.S. government in response to Putin’s hostile actions. The two men discussed Russian-American relations in Trump Tower in New York; probably not coincidentally, a company of Vekselberg’s ended up sending Cohen substantial sums of money amounting to more than half of a million dollars.

A diplomatic episode from the beginning of Trump’s presidency ties all this together.  Early in 2017, Cohen teamed up with his old friend Sater and Topolov’s old associate Artemenko from the alleged Gazprom-related laundering scam in an unofficial diplomatic meeting in Manhattan regarding Ukraine. This meeting was organized by Alex Oronov, whom Artemenko described in March 2017 as a “partner, mentor, teacher and friend.” His statement was made shortly after Oronov had mysteriously died.

The purpose of the meeting was to discuss a “peace” plan for Ukraine that had support from senior Putin aides, one that would cede to Russia official control over Crimea, which Russia illegally annexed with a 50 or 100-year “lease.”  At the meeting were also discussed ways to undermine Ukraine’s current anti-Putin president, Petro Poroshenko.  Cohen personally delivered the proposal to National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, who had attended a Russian gala dinner in 2015 while seated at Putin’s table, which was next to Vekselberg’s table. Flynn would later resign from Trump’s team because of his Russian entanglements that would then lead to his indictment by the Special Counsel.

Such excellent Ukraine work assisting Russian interests would have made Manafort proud, and Manafort may even have played a role in it.  Artemenko used his private plane to fly Manafort to Europe in July 2013, and Manafort made at least 19 trips to Kiev in the 20 months after Yanukovych was overthrown in 2014, possibly partnering with Medvedchuk.

Soon after the last trip, he and Gates joined the Trump campaign, just in time for the campaign to defang the Republican Party Platform’s harsh language on Russia’s actions in Ukraine.

Cohen’s work on the 2017 “peace plan” would, had it been adopted, have been the long-worked-for culmination of over a decade of work by Manafort and Gates. This “peace plan” would have basically put an official stamp of approval on the latest in the long series of Putin, Yanukovych, Medvedchuk, and their whole crew’s efforts to enforce Russian domination of Ukraine through corruption, politics, lobbying, laundering, annexation, and war. Russia’s any means necessary approach was often orchestrated in no small part by Manafort.

With Manafort sidelined by the clouds hanging over his head, Cohen, along with his old friend Sater, were virtual representatives of Manafort, both in agenda and in spirit, ready to carry the pro-Russian torch Manafort had so diligently carried steadfastly for so long.

What is clear at a minimum is that an awful lot of people with deep ties to the Russian government, the Russian mafia, especially to Mogilevich, and involvement in (sometimes alleged) money laundering surround both Cohen and Manafort in profound, sustained ways. Those ties also appear to pertain directly to their relations to Trump the businessman, Trump the candidate, and Trump, the president.  At worst, this could go way beyond collusion.....

Quote
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/trumps-lawyer-launched-an-offshore-casino-and-left-a-wake#.lrNJY6oqZ
How Trump's Lawyer Placed A Big Casino Bet That Left Dozens Empty-Handed

..Michael D. Cohen backed a different kind of venture: a gambling cruise that stiffed employees and vendors, and blew off many of the ensuing lawsuits.

March 15, 2017,
...this week, Michael Cohen at first said that he did not have a stake in the casino business, only the yacht, and bore no responsibility for lost wages and unpaid debts. But BuzzFeed News then sent him documents with his signature showing he owned 30% of the company.

“I disagree and, if I did, I never knew it,” he said.
Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/02/us/politics/michael-cohen-donald-trump.html
Trump Foot Soldier Sidelined Under Glare of Russia Inquiry
JULY 2, 2017

...Just over a decade ago, Donald J. Trump was locked in conflict with a group of apartment owners.... Mr. Trump turned to Michael D. Cohen, a former personal injury lawyer who helped run a taxi fleet.

Mr. Cohen did not seem to have extensive expertise in the arcana of New York City condo rules... He had already purchased a number of Trump properties and had persuaded his parents, in-laws and a business partner to buy apartments in Mr. Trump’s flashy new development, Trump World Tower.

Plus, he had read Mr. Trump’s book “The Art of the Deal.” Twice...

... An uncle close to the Cohen family, Morton W. Levine, is a doctor and businessman...has long owned a Brooklyn catering hall, El Caribe,.. (Dr. Levine was never charged with any wrongdoing.)..

...After the infamous mob boss Agron was killed, Nayfeld served as a bodyguard and chauffer for the next don of the Russian mob, Marat Balagula.

Balagula maintained an office at the El Caribe Country Club, a Brooklyn catering hall and event space owned by the uncle of President Donald Trump's longtime personal lawyer, Michael Cohen.

The uncle, Dr. Morton Levine, said that all..have an ownership in the company, but that Cohen "gave up his stake," after Trump was elected.

Quote
Michael Cohen's Ties to Russia, Crime and Trump – Rolling ...
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/a-brief-history-of-michael-cohens-criminal-ties-628875/
Apr 10, 2018 - In a five-year period, he and people connected to him would purchase Trump properties worth $17.3 million. All the frenzied buying by Cohen
Quote
Trump's businesses are full of dirty Russian money. The scandal
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/trumps-businesses-are-full-of-dirty-russian-money-the-scandal-is-thats-legal/2019/03/29/11b812da-5171-11e9-88a1-ed346f0ec94f_story.html
Mar 29, 2019 - Shell companies put figures from Putin's Mafia into Trump Tower. ... the deeds to, lived in or ran criminal operations out of Trump Tower in New York .... There is no evidence of personal interaction between Trump and Ivankov.
Quote
Trump's Russian Laundromat | The New Republic
https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate
Jul 13, 2017 - The FBI concluded that one of Ivankov's partners in the operation was Felix Komarov, an upscale art dealer who lived in Trump Plaza on Third ...
New York Magazine Nov 7, 1994




Was Trump's intervention in this convict serving out his prison sentence a result of the convict's and others in the Trump orbit
affiliation with Chabat? The nickname of Chabat rabbi Lazar is Putin's rabbi.
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/11/27/the-odd-chabad-connection-between-putin-and-trump/
The largest financial supporter of Chabat is Putin "friend" the oligarch Lev Leviev. Jared Kushner is linked religiously to Chabat and the former NY Times building with Lev Leviev. The former CEO of Leviev owned Israel Africa, described as Leviev right hand man Rotem Rosen was photographed last Friday talking with Michael Cohen and his 2007 wedding with Zina Sapir, daughter of Bayrock (Felix Sater) partner Tamir Sapir was hosted by Trump at Mira Lago. Trump is seen in a 2013 photo in Moscow with three others, including Rosen and Zina's brother Alex Sapir. The female Russian lawyer at the 2016 Trump tower meeting was at the center of litigation with US federal officials in her client's efforts to remove the Magnitsky act instigated freeze on Lev Leviev's Africa Israel assets which were under the disguised "ownership" of a Russian student.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-company-whose-lawyer-was-at-the-trump-tower-meeting-threatens-to-break-a-deal-with-the-feds
A reporter for Politico.com wrote an article in April, 2017 about the Happy Go Lucky Chabat folk behind Trump. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007
That article was published two months before the Trump Tower meeting was disclosed and 8 months before this
curious Trump intervention releasing this convict from prison.

Quote
https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-sholom-rubashkins-supporters-got-trump-to-commute-his-sentence/
How Sholom Rubashkin’s supporters got Trump to commute his sentence
Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, prominent lawyers and Orthodox Jews all urged for pardon of Kosher meatpacking CEO
By RON KAMPEAS  23 December 2017, 3:19 am

Kushner has longstanding ties to the Chabad-Lubavitch movement, of which Rubashkin is a member. “My impression is that Donald Trump is much more receptive to the interests and concerns of the Orthodox Jewish community, maybe because of the association with his son-in-law,” said Nathan Lewin, a top Washington lawyer..

Kushner has longstanding ties to the Chabad-Lubavitch movement, of which Rubashkin is a member. “My impression is that Donald Trump is much more receptive to the interests and concerns of the Orthodox Jewish community, maybe because of the association with his son-in-law,” said Nathan Lewin, a top Washington lawyer..

and the Cohen to Flynn, peace plan.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/08/the-curious-link-between-trumps-moscow-tower-deal-and-a-ukraine-peace-plan/

Trump hosted the 2008 Mar-a-Lago wedding of Rotem Rosen and Zina Sapir, daughter of Tamir Sapir.
Rotem Rosen and his wife, Zina's brother, Alex Sapir are pictured with Trump in Moscow in 2013. Rotem Rosen was pictured talking with
Michael Cohen, last Friday.

Rotem Rosen was described in 2009 as the right hand man of Putin friend, Lev Leviev, largest contributor to Chabad.
Rotem Rosen until 2011 was CEO of Leviev's Africa-Israel, USA (aka AFI) Prevezon was partnered with Leviev's Netherlands affiliate of AFI.

The Russian lawyer representing Prevezon was the lawyer in the Trump Tower, "dirt on Hillary," meeting in June, 2016.:
Quote
Jared Kushner sealed real estate deal with oligarch's firm cited in ...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/24/jared-kushner-new-york-russia-money-laundering

Jul 24, 2017 - Court documents and company records show that AFI was cited in the Prevezon case as a business partner of the defendants. In 2008 ... “Natalia's main role was coordinating, including regular coordination with Chaika, whom she knew personally,” said a source acquainted with the Prevezon case.
Quote
https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-director-louis-freeh-russia-prevezon-money-laundering-2017-11
Former FBI director Louis Freeh represented Prevezon, firm at center of money-laundering probe - Business Insider

Nov 16, 2017 - Prevezon is also represented by Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer who met with top Trump campaign officials in June 2016 at Trump Tower. ... a company called AFI Europe, which Prevezon says froze a payment of more than $3 million as part of the US litigation against the Russian-owned firm.
Quote
Quote
Inside the link between the Russian lawyer who met Donald Trump Jr. and the Trump dossier
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/07/11/inside-the-link-between-the-russian-lawyer-who-met-donald-trump-jr-and-the-trump-dossier/
Jul 11, 2017 - Prevezon is owned by Russian businessman Denis Katsyv. His father, Pyotr Katsyv, was vice premier and minister of transport of Moscow region from 2004 to 2012. Katsyv's deputy minister was Alexander Mitusov, Veselnitskaya's ex husband. Fusion GPS began its separate work on the Trump-Russia ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Katsyv
Denis Katsyv is a Ukrainian-Jewish businessman based in Moscow and owner of Prevezon Holdings Limited. He was linked in a civil-assets case to money laundering through real estate investments in the United States, in violation of the Magnitsky Act of 2012; the case was settled in 2017 with the United States Justice Department by Prevezon agreeing to pay $5.9 million in fines.

Katsyv has been represented by attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya, who met with Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn R. Simpson and Donald Trump Jr in the summer of 2016, during the U.S. presidential campaign of the latter's father, then-nominee Donald Trump.

Background[edit]

Katsyv is the son of Pyotr Katsyv, a former vice governor and transportation minister of the Moscow region. He was educated and took advantage of business opportunities as Russia began to privatize.

The son became a shareholder of Cyprus-based Prevezon Holdings Ltd. shortly after it received mysterious cash payments in 2008 from Moldova.[1]

In May 2017, Prezevon settled a case brought by the U.S Department of Justice for $5.9 million in fines. It was related to Russian tax fraud and money laundering originally uncovered by the late Russian lawyer and auditor Sergei Magnitsky. Katsyv was represented by attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya [2][3] and law firm BakerHostetler in cooperation with research firm Fusion GPS, which was concurrently assembling opposition research against candidate Trump[4]. ..

Online Tom Scully

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2019, 07:26:16 PM »
Tom, several years ago when Cyprus' financially collapsed (2013) *can't remember where* I heard or read about Cyprus worrying western intelligence agencies due the close relationship with Putin/Russia there. Russia was going to fill the void. And then I remember on UK tv the discussion at the time because there was a growing influence of Russias 'Mafia' on the island. First I'd heard of it, I thought Cyprus was still a British colony, but I guess we let it go -- In hindsight, a mistake! Looks like everybody is after a piece of the action there. Another glorious own goal!

https://in-cyprus.com/the-russian-mafia-is-here/


https://in-cyprus.com/relations-between-cyprus-and-russia-developing-positively-says-putin/


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/17/welcome-to-limassolgrad-the-city-getting-rich-on-russian-money

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-10/cyprus-loses-luster-as-mediterranean-haven-for-russian-business
 --


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/eu-passports-for-sale-in-sunny-cyprus-lure-rich-russians-and-their-cash-a7732326.html

https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-browder-cyprus-accused-of-abetting-russian-money-laundering/

Remember when Putin went after Browder whilst stood next to Trump in Helsinki? and then Trump tweeted about handing Browder over to the Russians to face investigating. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
----

All of this makes sense when you read this. As per usual, follow the money.

https://www.dw.com/en/cyprus-gas-discoveries-spark-us-russian-gamesmanship/a-48585334 

I've been following Papadopoulos' twitter timeline and he's been saying some interesting stuff. And he started mentioning Cyprus. It triggered my memory of the Russian mafia influence on the island! It started to make sense why he became a target!
.....
He's open and honest about what he got into. But who did, or does he work for?

Ok so when this whole Russiagate stuff began I remember Papadopoulos described as a 'lower ranking member' of Trump's campaign. Trump called him 'Low Level'. “Few people knew the young, low level volunteer named George, who has already proven to be a liar,” from a tweet https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/925335577217683456

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/us/politics/trump-manafort-papadopoulos-mueller.html

From those Papadopoulos tweets you can see yourself there's no way this was some lower level member of the team, especially if you are one of the nations fighting for control of Cyprus' gas. This guy was potentially advising the next POTUS. Cyprus has massive significance for European energy independence. Plus all their shady stuff with passports and money laundering. Right now Europeans are hooked on Russian gas - a BIG security problem. Surely someone told Trump this? State dept briefing? Do candidates get briefings on these things? I presume Papadopoulos has no state dept or previous government links, and yet he could have been brokering some significant future energy decisions in a very tricky area of the world right now. BIG BIG national importance for a lot of people. Papadopoulos introduced Trump to the Egyptian leader just 2 months before the election. Trump may, or may not -- which would be pretty shocking -- but it appears Papadopoulos knew the significance of what is going on between Cyprus>Turkey>Israel>Egypt>Russia>USA (and throw into that group all the Europeans). This is kinda ridiculous that Trump walked into this mess. Massive stakes, and he seems clueless!

And then when you throw into the mix Gen. Flynn's link to the Turkish government, this is big time potential conflict of interests. Gen. Flynn is wide open to compromise and leverage as an undeclared foreign agent for Turkish interests, in such an important area dealing with Turkey/Russia/Cyprus/Israel/Egypt

To me, it makes sense why both Flynn and Papadouplos were being monitored by *lets say* the IC. Plural agencies 'spying' on them. *And I say that as someone who initially thought Trump was right, that he, and his team were spied on* But, Papadouplos & Flynn, they both have major conflicts of interests. Papadouplos' are unknown? he seems to have randomly got himself into a position where he might have been given a Trump government position -- but yet his background is unverifiable.Surely he had to be monitored, for his own safety! Flynn is extremely wreckless. The guy must have known more about what was going on right now with Cyprus and Turkey>Russia, it would be ridiculous, he, a former head of DIA never declared his interests -- kinda worrying that there are people like Flynn in governments exposing nations to blackmail based decisions.

It's going to be interesting to see if Bidens are tangled up in this Cyprus/Ukrainian corruption, as Papadouplos alleges. I think he might know the truth, more than many. Which might explain Obama wanting to cover Biden's ass. The Trump team conveniently gave Obama's government enough concerns to investigate Flynn and Papadouplos, plus Manafort. They made it easy to be framed with Russia through Papadouplos and Fynn's pretty serious compromising connections.

There was smoke. As I think Brennan or Clapper said, about Russia and Trump's campaign. But the fire might also be for Biden/Obama's crew!

The experiment of having 'outsiders', like Trump, in government, has failed. Having someone without experience, plus his crap advisors around him, it's got him sucked into making many poor decisions. Manafort, Wilbur Ross, and Papadouplos, Flynn, all tangled up in Cypriot shenanigans. Obama was definitely right when he advised Trump not to hire Flynn. Flynn is so reckless -- Obama probably meant 'for all our sakes' don't hire Flynn. Knowing Flynn's conflict of interests would eventually also shed light on the dodgy dealings of the Biden's and whatever happened on Obama's watch elsewhere.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/us/politics/hunter-biden-ukraine.html

Obama wont be endorsing Biden! guaranteed!

And I wont be type the name Papadopoulos for a while!

Robert, you obviously are sincere and endeavor to be informed, too rare in these forums, but.... I urged Ed Forum readers to keep up with the research of Dr. Marcy Wheeler, in 2009... I try to read every piece authored by her, not necessarily by the others who post articles there. She has been exposing and humiliating Papadopoulos, accurately and justly, IMO, since days after his guilty plea was announced.

George Papadoupolos married a woman who was employed by Joseph Mifsud.

Robert, the "path" to Dr. Wheeler's conclusion below, at least in the U.S. goes this way...The White house leaks enough unique
details, mostly thru Sean Hannity, to give an appearance of accuracy. Hannity leaks primarily to three propagandists, John Solomon, Sara Carter, and dailycaller.com's Chuck Ross. (They are not investigative journalists) Papadoupolos takes what you regard as influential, from those four, "Trump fed" disinfo sources...
Quote
Sara Carter's Passion For Truth - Sean Hannity
https://hannity.com/media-room/real-journalism-sara-carters-passion-for-truth/
Feb 27, 2018 - Get Carter was the name of the film, an old crime drama starring ... the Washington Examiner's Byron York and Chuck Ross of the Daily Caller.

Quote
PAPADOPOULOS OBTAINED HIS BELIEFS ABOUT JOSEPH MIFSUD FROM THE DAILY CALLER, LA REPUBLICA, FOX NEWS, AND OTHER UNSOURCED REPORTS

Quote
https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/10/20/breaking-george-papadopoulos-says-fbi-should-have-surveilled-him-more-than-they-did/
BREAKING! GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS SAYS FBI SHOULD HAVE SURVEILLED HIM MORE THAN THEY DID
October 20, 2019/24 Comments/in 2016 Presidential Election, Mueller Probe /by emptywheel

Quote
https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/10/16/the-frothy-right-gets-more-excited-about-an-eight-year-old-phone-than-contemporaneous-metadata/
THE FROTHY RIGHT GETS MORE EXCITED ABOUT AN EIGHT YEAR OLD PHONE THAN CONTEMPORANEOUS METADATA
SIDNEY POWELL AND BILL BARR HAVE GOTTEN THE FROTHY RIGHT MORE WORKED UP...

Quote
https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/10/12/the-presidents-joint-defense-agreement-with-the-russian-mob/
THE PRESIDENT’S JOINT DEFENSE AGREEMENT WITH THE RUSSIAN MOB
JOHN DOWD'S DESPERATE ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE UKRAINE SCANDAL GO AWAY THE SAME...

Quote
https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/10/07/bill-barr-risks-becoming-george-papadopoulos-coffee-boy/
BILL BARR RISKS BECOMING GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS’ COFFEE BOY
IT'S CRAZY ENOUGH THAT BILL BARR TREATS GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS' HOAXES SERIOUSLY....
Quote
I’m not a conspiracy theorist. Everything I’ve ever tweeted or — probably, if that’s what you’re referring to, it’s just backed by things I’ve read in the media. George Papadopoulos

First, I testified against both Downer and Mifsud a year ago to help launch Durham’s investigation. Now, the fruit of that accurate testimony is exposing the global nature of the attempt to set up the 2016 campaign and interfere in the democratic process. George Papadopoulos

There has only been one roadmap that clearly identifies what AG Barr and John Durham are investigating abroad, it’s all in my book. George Papadopoulos

In this post, https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/10/02/bill-barr-risks-becoming-joseph-mifsuds-new-coffee-boy/
I noted that Attorney General Bill Barr had put himself in the role of an FBI line Agent and flown to Italy not so he could interview Joseph Mifsud — and so obtain information that might be useful in assessing the credibility of his Russian-backed lawyer’s claim that Mifsud actually worked for Western, not Russian, intelligence — but instead to sit in a room and watch a movie, the taped deposition made by Mifsud’s Russian-linked lawyer.

Not only had Barr flown to Italy without obtaining the real ask, a face-to-face interview, but he did so chasing claims that were laundered through one of the frothy right’s stenographers
https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/24/george-papadopoulos-congress-suspicious-interactions/
into the mouth of George Papadopoulos for his October 24, 2018 Congressional testimony,
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5781512/Transcript-of-George-Papadopoulos-interview-by.pdf
provenance so unbelievably sketchy it would be shameful for Rudy Giuliani to chase the conspiracy theory, much less the Attorney General of the United States of America on the taxpayer dime.

As a reminder, to try to help him avoid prison for lying to the FBI, Papadopoulos’ lawyers explained that in 2016,
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4808119/Sentencing-Memorandum.pdf
“To say George was out of his depth would be a gross understatement” and described his pursuit of ties to Russia as part of his campaign work as an attempt to, ” be at the center of a globally significant event.” They explained that he “lied, minimized, and omitted material facts” about the Russian investigation, “Out of loyalty to the new president and his desire to be part of the administration.” This is not a man you’d think anyone in government would take seriously.

I think, because Papadopoulos has so little credibility outside of the frothy right, traditional journalists largely ignored the role of Papadoulos and his Congressional testimony
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5781512/Transcript-of-George-Papadopoulos-interview-by.pdf
 until it had already taken hold of the entire frothy right. That’s changing. Vox has a good post on Papadopoulos’ centrality in Bill Barr’s treasure hunt, and NYT tried
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/06/us/politics/italy-russia-mifsud-trump.html
to debunk the Italian part of it pertaining to Mifsud.

But I’d like to look at one more detail, that makes Papadopoulos’ obvious lack of credibility even more non-existent.

Most of the conspiracy theories he floated in his testimony didn’t even come from his first-hand information. Rather, they’re stuff he read, often from known stenographers for the frothy right, relying on sources that are fairly obviously either close to the President and/or close to Russian and Ukrainian sources who shouldn’t be trusted; where he relied on credible journalists, he misrepresented it. Papadopoulos, then, serves not as witness. Instead, he’s just an empty vessel being used by others to carry a concocted story.

PAPADOPOULOS OBTAINED HIS BELIEFS ABOUT JOSEPH MIFSUD FROM THE DAILY CALLER, LA REPUBLICA, FOX NEWS, AND OTHER UNSOURCED REPORTS
One of the few exceptions is that Papadopoulos believes that Alexander Downer recorded the conversation in which Papadopoulos told the Australian that someone had told him Russia had dirt on Hillary they were going to release material on Hillary to help the Trump campaign because Downer holds his phone when he speaks.
(Mr. Meadows is a congressman and leader of the Freedom Caucus, the most extreme right group in congress, with 37 member of 435 in the House of Rep.)
Quote
You know, at that time, I’m like, Wow, all these, you know, very senior diplomats and people want to just meet this 28-year old young aid who just joined the campaign, I think, or month or so before. But why not, you know. They could send it back to the campaign that I just met with the Australian diplomat. What I’m going to tell you right now is what I remember telling special counsel directly to their face, too. One, I felt like Alexander Downer — first, I felt the meeting was completely controlled. That he was sent to meet me by some entity or some organization, and that he was recorded my conversation with him. And what do I mean by recording my conversation? If I had my phone I would show you of how strange this character was acting. I sat down with him and he pulls his phone out and he starts holding it like this towards me.

Mr. Meadows. Here.

Mr. Papadopoulos. Here, I’ll show you. And I told the special counsel this over a year ago. I’m sitting down within 5 or 6, 7 minutes of meeting this person, I’m talking and he goes like this to me, stone-faced, just holding his phone like this towards me. And I didn’t know what to think except do I tell him Will you stop recording me, or, What are you doing? Because it was just, it just left such an indelible memory of how this individual was acting that I never forgot it, and I felt that he was recording it and the meeting was controlled. So he held his phone up like this.

But Papadopoulos believes that Downer is a spy, not a diplomat, because of something he read (he doesn’t say what).
Quote
Mr. Meadows. That’s correct. And so following up on the question from my colleague here about transcripts. Was there any other time that you felt like that you might have been recorded or surveilled in a manner, as you’re looking back on it now? Obviously, at the time, you might not have been aware of it. Is there any time that you said, well, you know, this just doesn’t feel right? Can you share that with the committee?

Mr. Papadopoulos. Certainly, sir, and thank you for your kind words. I was — let’s go to the Alexander Downer meeting, this Australian person, who I’m —

Mr. Meadows. And for the record, this is the Australian diplomat as it has been reported, at least, the Australian diplomat, Mr. Downer.

Mr. Papadopoulos. Mr. Downer, that’s right, who, it’s my understanding, is probably the top diplomat in Australia, or was before he retired. He was the head of what I think is the equivalent of the CIA in Australia for around 17 years. I think that’s what I read about him. Anyway, he’s a very unknown person, this isn’t counselor at the Australian embassy in London, okay. [my emphasis]
As for the source of that information, Papadopoulos told Congress he held two incompatible beliefs, both beliefs he took from something he read. Most critically, the belief that got Bill Barr to fly to Italy — that Mifsud actually works for Western, not Russian, intelligence — Papadopoulos cited to a Daily Caller article
https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/24/george-papadopoulos-congress-suspicious-interactions/
which itself relayed claims Mifsud’s Russian-backed lawyer made he had read the day before.
Quote
Q Okay. So, and Mifsud, he presented himself as what? Who did he tell you he was?

A So looking back in my memory of this person, this is a mid-50’s person, describes himself as a former diplomat who is connected to the world, essentially. I remember he was even telling me that, you know, the Vietnamese prime minister is a good friend of mine. I mean, you have to understand this is the type of personality he was portraying himself as.

And, you know, I guess I took the bait because, you know, usually somebody who — at least in Washington, when somebody portrays themselves in a specific way and has credentials to back it, you believe them. But that’s how he portrayed himself. And then I can’t remember exactly the next thing that happened until he decided to introduce me to Putin’s fake niece in London, which we later found out is some sort of student. But I could get into those details of how that all started.

Q And what’s your — just to kind of jump way ahead, what’s your current understanding of who Mifsud is?

A My current understanding?

Q Yeah. A You know, I don’t want to espouse conspiracy theories because, you know, it’s horrifying to really think that they might be true, but just yesterday, there was a report in the Daily Caller from his own lawyer that he was working with the FBI when he approached me. And when he was working me, I guess — I don’t know if that’s a fact, and I’m not saying it’s a fact — I’m just relaying what the Daily Caller reported yesterday, with Chuck Ross, and it stated in a categorical fashion that Stephan Roh, who is Joseph Mifsud’s, I believe his President’s counsel, or PR person, said that Mifsud was never a Russian agent.

In fact, he’s a tremendous friend of western intelligence, which makes sense considering I met him at a western spying school in Rome. And all his interactions — this is just me trying to repeat the report, these are not my words — and when he met with me, he was working as some sort of asset of the FBI. I don’t know if that’s true or not. I’m just reporting what my current understanding is of this individual based on reports from journalists.

[snip]

Q And then at what point did you learn that, you know, he’s not who he said he was?

A Like I said, I don’t have the concrete proof of who this person is. I’m just going with reports. And all I can say is that I believe the day I was, my name was publicly released and Papadopoulos became this person that everyone now knows, Mifsud gave an interview to an Italian newspaper. And in this newspaper, he basically said, I’m not a Russian agent. I’m a Clinton supporter. I’m a Clinton Foundation donor, and that — something along those lines. I mean, don’t quote me exactly, you could look up the article yourself. It is in La Republica. And then all of a sudden, after that, he disappears off the face of the planet, which I always found as odd.

[snip]

I guess the overwhelming evidence, from what I’ve read, just in reports, nothing classified, of course, because I’m not privy to anything like that, and considering his own lawyer is saying it, Stephan Roh, that Mifsud is a western intelligence source. And, I guess, according to reports yesterday, he was working with the FBI

Meanwhile, Papadopoulos explains away Joseph Mifsud’s mention of Hillary’s emails weeks later to a comment that Andrew Napolitano made on Fox News the day before (not, as he claimed to believe in the same testimony, that it was a big Deep State set-up), even though Papadopoulos believed Mifsud really believed in the emails at the time and didn’t know of the Napolitano link. Papadopoulos also mischaracterizes what he believed about Mifsud at that moment and even later, given his public emails from the time.
Quote
A Yeah. So my understanding, my current memory of this meeting was that he invited me to the Andaz Hotel in London by Liverpool Street Station, I guess on April 26, 2016. And at this meeting, he was giddy, you know, like he had something he wanted to get off his chest. And he tells me that the Russians have thousands of Hillary Clinton emails. I never heard the word DNC.

[snip]

A And I’ve said this on TV, and I’m saying it here, I never heard the words DNC, Podesta, anything like that. I just heard “the Russians have thousands of Hillary Clinton’s emails.” And at that time, and we could look at the records, people were openly speculating about that, too. I think even Judge Napolitano on Fox News, the day before I met with Mifsud on April 25th was openly speculating the same thing. So my impression when he told me this information at the time was he is validating rumors. Because I didn’t feel that I heard something so different, like Democratic National Committee emails, WikiLeaks, I didn’t hear anything like that. So yeah, it was an interesting piece of information, but you know, by that point you have to understand, he had failed to introduce me to anyone of substance in the Russian Government. So he failed to do that, but now all of a sudden he has the keys to the kingdom about a massive potential conspiracy that Russia is involved in. So that was my mindset when he told me this.

[snip]

Q So to the best of your understanding now, you know, how do you believe Mr. Mifsud would have known about these — you know, the Russians having these Clinton emails?

A My understanding now?

Q Uh-huh. A Well, one —

Q Or at the time or now, but —

A Well — well, one, as I stated, but I don’t want to be exactly quoted, I believe the day before Joseph Mifsud told me about this issue, I believe April 25, 2016, Judge Andrew Napolitano was on Fox News openly speculating that the Russians have Hillary’s emails. I don’t know if that’s true or not. Somebody told me that that’s what happened. I’m not sure. That he might have heard it from there. He might have been telling the truth that he heard it from people in Russia. He might have been working for Western intelligence like the evidence now suggests he was. I don’t know. That’s not my job to figure it out.

[snip]

A My current memory makes me believe that he was stating it as a fact, and I took it as well.

Q And did you believe him at the time?

A At the time, yeah.
So to sum up the source of Papadopoulos’ congressional testimony regarding his beliefs about his interactions with Mifsud and then Downer, he’s relying on:

Excuses relying on a Fox News host
A Daily Caller story that relies on a Russian backed lawyer
Some other unsourced claim
Downer’s posture and mannerisms

PAPADOPOULOS OBTAINED HIS BELIEFES ABOUT THE STEPHAN HALPER MEETINGS FROM TWITTER, NYT, AND JOHN SOLOMON
A similar pattern emerges regarding his interactions with Stephan Halper, the FBI informant sent with a presumed undercover Agent using the name Azra Turk to interview Papadopoulos about how he learned of the Hillary emails. Papadopoulos’ testimony to Congress is that he believes Azra Turk’s name is fake (it almost certainly was) because of something he read on Twitter

Quote
So I get there. I get to London. And he introduces — or he does not introduce me to, but I can’t remember exactly how I came into contact with his assistant, this young lady named Azra Turk, which I think is a fake name, by the way. My —

Mr. Meadows. Why do you believe it’s a fake name?

Mr. Papadopoulos. Reading — reading Twitter and people saying that Azra in Turkish means pure and then Turk. So unless she has the name of pure Turk.

He testified he believes Turk asked him about hacking because he read it in the NYT (the NYT actually shows Halper asked about this).

Mr. Papadopoulos. Just who I am, my background in the energy business, because everyone was curious about my background in the energy business in Israel. And that’s another thing we’ll get to about what I think why I had a FISA on me, but I don’t know. She then apparently — I don’t remember it, I’m just reading The New York Times. She starts asking me about hacking. I don’t remember her actually asking me that, I just read it in The New York Times. Nevertheless, she introduces me the next time to Stefan Halper.

Mr. Meadows. She asked you about hacking?

Mr. Papadopoulos. I don’t remember it. I just — I think I read that particular —

Mr. Meadows. You’ve read that?

Mr. Papadopoulos. Yes, that’s what I — I think I read it in The New York Times.

And Papadopoulos believes (correctly) there is a transcript of these conversations and (falsely) that it is exonerating because of what John Solomon wrote days earlier.

Mr. Papadopoulos. I’m sure the transcript exists and you’ve probably read it, so I don’t want to be wrong on exactly what he said. But —

Mr. Meadows. You say a transcript exists. A transcript exists of that conversation?

Mr. Papadopoulos. That’s I guess what John Solomon reported a couple days ago.

Mr. Meadows. So are you aware of a transcript existing? I mean —

Mr. Papadopoulos. I wasn’t aware of a transcript existing personally.

Mr. Meadows. So you have no personal knowledge of it?

Mr. Papadopoulos. I had no personal knowledge, no.

Mr. Meadows. But you think that he could have been recording you is what you’re suggesting?

Mr. Papadopoulos. Yes.

Mr. Meadows. All right. Go ahead.

Mr. Papadopoulos. And after he was throwing these allegations at me, I —

Mr. Meadows. And by allegations, allegations that the Trump campaign was benefiting from Hillary Clinton emails?

Mr. Papadopoulos. Something along those lines, sir. And I think I pushed back and I told him, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. What you’re talking about is something along the lines of treason. I’m not involved. I don’t know anyone in the campaign who’s involved. And, you know, I really have nothing to do with Russia. That’s — something along those lines is how I think I responded to this person.
As I have noted,
https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/08/06/the-transcript-the-frothy-right-claims-exculpates-george-papadopoulos-instead-damns-him/
if the transcript reflects what Papadopoulos says it does, it shows that he lied about ongoing connections to Russia; he had been planning a secret meeting with Russia for precisely that date during the summer, and would boast of a pro-Russian interview to Mifsud some weeks later (which got him fired from the campaign). Plus, Papadopoulos’ claim an action — optimizing the WikiLeaks releases, which Roger Stone was doing even as Papadopoulos gave this answer — would amount to treason explains why he would lie to the FBI about any knowledge four months later. That is, the transcript, if it says what Papadopoulos says, shows the deceit of a guilty conscience, not exoneration.

PAPADOPOLOUS CITES AN ARTICLE QUOTING HIS LAWYER SAYING HIS ARREST WAS TOTALLY LEGAL TO CLAIM IT WAS RUSHED
In addition to citing his beliefs about the Israeli that almost got him charged with being a foreign agent of Israel to a misreading of a WikiLeaks cable, Papadopoulos does this most hysterically in attempting to respond to Mark Meadows’ clear demands that he claim the circumstances of his arrest (and a border search of his briefcase the likes of which happens all the time to brown people who aren’t even being arrested) was improper. At the beginning of a colloquy where Papadopoulos repeatedly stops short of using the inflammatory language Meadows tries to feed him,, the former campaign aide suggests a Politico story suggested a deviation from the norm on arrests.

Quote
So everything was done in a very — I had never been arrested before. I didn’t know that was a normal procedure. But reading certain articles about my arrest in Politico and other newspapers, it seems like there was some sort of rush to arrest me and —

[snip]

Mr. Meadows. So you didn’t say, Why are you arresting me?

Mr. Papadopoulos. The only thing I remember was something along the lines of — and I can’t remember if it was after I had the handcuffs on me that they told me this is what happens when you don’t tell us everything about your Russia contacts. But I don’t remember any formal charges, or them telling me You are under arrest for X, Y or Z. That, I don’t remember at all.

Mr. Meadows. They told you — I guess, they gave your Miranda rights?

Mr. Papadopoulos. I don’t remember that. I don’t remember that. I’m sure there might be the video or a transcript of what was going on. You have to understand, I had just come off a trans-Atlantic flight.

Mr. Meadows. Right.

[snip]

Mr. Meadows. So that’s your testimony. So they basically take your briefcase and they start searching it? Did they ask you permission to search it?

Mr. Papadopoulos. My memory is that they put me in the room at the airport, did not ask me for any permission whatsoever, and then they began to search through my briefcase in a very, quite violent manner.

Mr. Meadows. By “violent,” what do you mean, just ripping it —

Mr. Papadopoulos. Just opening it, like that, putting their hands and just digging around. That’s, I just didn’t understand what was going on.

Mr. Meadows. And they didn’t indicate what they were looking for?

Mr. Papadopoulos. I don’t remember them indicating anything, no. And I don’t remember them actually formally, I guess, looking through my bag until I — I can’t remember — after we went in a car to another facility where I was processed. It was very strange.

Mr. Meadows. So did they show you a warrant to search those things?

Mr. Papadopoulos. I didn’t —

Mr. Meadows. Did they have a warrant to search your —

Mr. Papadopoulos. I don’t remember any warrant. In fact, the whole situation was very, it seemed very rushed and very chaotic.

Mr. Meadows. So you’re telling me that they searched your personal property without a warrant prior to you coming through Customs?

Mr. Papadopoulos. That’s what I remember, yes, sir.

Here’s the Politico report. While reporting that the arrest was likely done in an attempt to shock Papadopolous, it also cites his own lawyer saying, “What they did was absolutely lawful,” [Thomas] Breen said. “If I had a complaint, you’d know about it. I’ve got a short fuse.”

MARK MEADOWS ALLOWED PAPADOPOULOS TO TELL A LESS DAMNING FAIRY TALE BY NEGLECTING TO GET BACKUP EMAILS FROM HIM FIRST
This charade, letting a witness testify to Congress not about what he personally knows, but what he read about himself, often what he read in propaganda outlets relying on sketchy sources, would be bad enough. It was made far, far worse because of a simple fact about the hearing: the Republicans who set it up (and this appears to have been run almost entirely by Mark Meadows) did not, first, demand that Papadopoulos provide the backup documents that would make such questioning even remotely worthwhile.

As a result, Papadopoulos responded to question after question that went to the substance of his sustained interest in working with Russia with vague claims about what he did and did not remember and a offer, instead, to share the emails that might pinpoint what he really knew and did. Over and over, he happens to tell a story that is less damning.

Whether out of forgetfulness or deceit, for example, Papadopoulos foreshortens two things about the campaign: first, the claimed date when the campaign started covering up its ties to Russia, which was July, not May.
Quote
Q You said also that you continued to suggest this Trump-Putin summit, but eventually, you found out that the campaign just wasn’t interested. Can you tell me the process by which you came to understand that the campaign wasn’t interested in setting up a Trump-Putin meeting?

A Yes. As I remember it, by the time Manafort took the helm of the campaign, I just emailed him, Are we interested in this or not? I think I forwarded to him an email from Ivan Timofeev where he’s asking for a letter to be signed by the campaign if this is a serious proposal or not, something like that. And I don’t think I ever received a response from Manafort. And you just put two and two together, no one’s interested, so stop it.

He also foreshortens the time he was in contact with Mifsud, which extended even after the election.

Quote
Q When was the last time you remember communicating with Professor Misfud?

A Off the top of my memory I think it was the summer of 2016.

Perhaps the most glaring instance of this, however, pertains to whether Walid Phares was involved in pursuing a secret meeting with Russia that would have taken place at the precise time Papadopoulos was in London getting interviewed by Stefan Halper. Papadopoulos answered a question about whether he discussed the secret meeting with Phares not by answering, but by saying he wasn’t sure it was in the emails.

Quote
Q You mentioned a number of emails where both of you would have been copied. Did you and Mr. Phares have any direct communication just the two of you?

A We met face to face at the TAG Summit. And then we obviously met at the March 31st meeting. And I can’t remember if we met another time in person or not. But we certainly were in correspondence for months over email.

Q Did you discuss your efforts to set up the Putin-Trump meeting with Mr. Phares?

A I’m not sure he was copied on those particular emails, but I could send whatever emails I have with him to the committee. It’s fine with me.

As the Meuller Report
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6002293/190322-Redacted-Mueller-Report.pdf
makes clear, very very damning details about precisely this topic were in Papadopoulos’ emails.

Quote
Papadopoulos remembered discussing Russia and a foreign policy trip with Clovis and Phares during the event.484 Papadopoulos’s recollection is consistent with emails sent before and after the TAG summit. The pre-summit messages included a July 11, 2016 email in which Phares suggested meeting Papadopoulos the day after the summit to chat,485 and a July 12 message in the same chain in which Phares advised Papadopoulos that other summit attendees “are very nervous about Russia. So be aware.”486 Ten days after the summit, Papadopoulos sent an email to Mifsud listing Phares and Clovis as other “participants” in a potential meeting at the London Academy of Diplomacy.487

This is what any hearing with George Papadopoulos should be about, details that would make any allegation that his claim, in mid-September, that he had nothing to do with Russia would be inculpatory, not exculpatory. But that’s not the hearing Mark Meadows decided to stage.

According to someone familiar with the aftermath of this hearing, Papadopoulos never did supply the emails he promised, at least not in a way such that they got shared with Democratic staffers.

PAPADOPOULOS TELLS CONGRESS THERE IS NO SUBSTANCE BEHIND ALLEGATIONS THAT THE MAIN SOURCE FOR HIS ALLEGATIONS MADE
The whole hearing was absurd, which is why it is all the more ridiculous that the Attorney General of the United States is running around the world treating these conspiracies as if they have merit.

But don’t take my word — or the public record — for it. Take the word of the hearing’s star witness, George Papadopoulos. He told Congress that there was no substance to the allegations that Stephan Roh, the Mifsud lawyer whose conspiracies Bill Barr is currently chasing, had made that he, Papadopoulos, was a western intelligence operative.
Quote
Q Are you aware that in a Daily Caller article, Mr. Roh has referred to you as a western intelligence operative?

A I wasn’t aware of that, but I was aware he wrote a book where he speculated that I could be that, but of course I don’t know this person beyond a couple of emails and phone calls, so, of course, he has no substance behind any allegations.
So on the one subject about which Papadopoulos claimed to have first hand knowledge here, he said Roh was making stuff up.

And yet, Bill Barr still treats Roh’s other allegations — the ones laundered through propaganda outlets — as true.
[/quote]
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 07:34:02 PM by Tom Scully »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2019, 07:26:16 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2019, 09:47:17 PM »
I am tackling, in one post, the heaping helpin' "dumped" into this thread by Richard and Walt.... Hopefully, a "one stop, shop," post to shutdown CT, so far, unsupported in this thread, pro Trump Putin "stuff".

Imagine my reaction after reading posts of ideologically driven posters, in the grip of confirmation bias, who spend only a fraction of the time I devote to attempting to be and to stay informed. Embracing Trump/Fox/republican CT bs is a lazy-man endeavor or a hopelessly indoctrinated, self imposed paranoia.
In my humble but well-supported opinion, only one of these three posters is NOT regurgitating Trumpist, right wing, or (neither MSNBC or CNN corporate management is "left" wing) or center right corporate media (i.e., the majority of US for-profit news outlets). talking points.
From page 10 of 11, of recently released, bi-partisan US Senate Intelligence Committee report.:
In reality, Crowdstrike has had a hand investigating a number of high-profile hacking incidents, including the North Korean cyber-intrusion into Sony Pictures. But its work in 2016 for the Democratic National Committee brought the company to front pages worldwide....

Two days ago, Fox News "reporting," vs reality !VS:
Let us consider what "the four of us" might agree on, if anything. Jill Stein and the POTUS who selected Mike Flynn to be his National Security Advisor are either too clueless or lacking in self awareness to ever be seriously considered as qualified (reasonable) choices to vote for, for POTUS....
Then, after having gotten Flynn to finally take him up on consulting with his attorneys, but before they recessed, Sullivan sat Flynn down and asked prosecutor Brandon Van Grack if prosecutors had evaluated Flynn’s activities to see if his behavior rose to the level of “treasonous activity.” Van Grack responded by answering about the crime of treason.Flynn went off, consulted with his lawyers, and wisely decided the last thing he should do is let Sullivan sentence him while he was thinking of treason. When he came back, the first thing Sullivan did was correct that Flynn was not acting as a foreign agent while serving as National Security Advisor and explain that he did not think Flynn had committed treason, but wanted to know what Mueller’s thinking on uncharged crimes was.Now, I will be honest with you: I was screaming at Sullivan when I read this being tweeted out in real time, in part because I spend so much time arguing that Trump and his flunkies won’t be charged with treason because we’re not at war. I do think, in an effort to convey to Flynn just how reprehensible he believes his actions were, Sullivan got out over his skis. But I think his comments are far more defensible — and telling — than much of the commentary appreciates.

Here’s why.

First, even the docket makes it clear that there are a bunch of sealed documents that Sullivan has gotten, including an ex parte version of the government’s addendum describing Flynn’s cooperation. Sullivan started the hearing yesterday emphasizing that point, then returned to it after he had gotten Flynn to plead guilty again under oath.[/u]By yesterday morning, Emmet Sullivan probably became one of the few people outside Mueller’s team and his DOJ supervisors that understands the activities that Trump and his associates, including Flynn, engaged in from 2015 to 2017. He understands not just the significance of Flynn’s lies, but also how those lies tied to graft and conspiracy with foreign countries — countries including, but not limited to, Russia.

It should gravely worry the Trump people that Sullivan’s comments about whether Flynn’s behavior was treasonous came from someone who just read about what the Mueller investigation has discovered.

Now consider that, as part of his effort to understand how much benefit Flynn got from pleading guilty to one charge of false statements for his multiple lies, Sullivan and Van Grack had this exchange.
Van Grack not only says that Flynn could have been charged in that conspiracy to act as an unregistered foreign agent indictment, but that the lies he told were part of the indictment.

And in fact, this language in Flynn’s statement of the offense (which Sullivan read yesterday in court):

Became this language in the Bijan Kian and Ekim Alptekin indictment:
While there are other false statements alleged (presumably the ones Van Grack said Flynn was not implicated in), the EDVA indictment actually charges four counts of false statements, and one of those directly maps to the lie Flynn himself pled guilty to.

Side note: it’s worth mentioning that Rob Kelner — who is still Flynn’s lawyer — is the guy who submitted those false FARA statements, which means he may be the lawyer that will take the stand in the EDVA trial to attest to the lies on those forms. It’s Kelner who still has some cooperation with prosecutors to do, at least as much as Flynn.

Significantly, as I noted the other day, both the conspiracy and the foreign agents charges in the EDVA indictment say the conduct continued through March 2017, the date Flynn Intelligence Group filed false FARA filings, hiding the fact that they knew Turkey was behind the Fethullah Gulen project.

There’s a reason it gets charged that way, which is even more important for Flynn than for his co-conspirators (a reason that also played out in Paul Manafort’s case, in which he was charged for hiding his ties to Ukraine at a time when they would have impacted the Trump campaign).

The point of these registration crimes is that so long as you withhold full disclosure about your actions, you continue to lie to the federal government and the public about the significance of your actions. By filing a registration in March 2017 specifically denying what all the co-conspirators knew — that Flynn Intelligence Group was actually working for Turkey, not Ekim Alptekin’s cut-out Inovo — it prevented the public and the government from assessing the import of Flynn’s actions in trying to force DOJ to deem Gulen a terrorist who could be extradited to Turkey. And frankly, so long as Flynn continued to hide that detail, it made him susceptible to pressure if not blackmail from Turkey.

There’s a grammatical difference between Sullivan’s two comments. He first said that Flynn was “an unregistered agent of a foreign country, while serving as the National Security Advisor.” That was, technically, true. For the entirety of the time Flynn served as National Security Advisor, FIG had not admitted that it had actually been working directly for Turkey. Indeed, FIG continued to lie (and so remained unregistered) about that fact until December 1, 2017, when Flynn pled guilty.

As I’ll show in a follow-up post, it is critically important that Flynn continued to lie about whether he had been working directly for Turkey when he met with the FBI on January 24, 2017.

Sullivan’s follow-up used different grammar. Then, he said “Flynn [was not] acting as a foreign agent while serving in the White House.” That is also true. He was no longer secretly being paid by the government of Turkey to do things like slap his name on op-eds written by other people.

Still, even though he was no longer being paid to take specific actions requested by the government of Turkey, for the entire time he worked at the White House (and for more than eight months afterwards), his past work as an agent of a foreign government — as opposed to a foreign company cut-out — remained unregistered, undisclosed to the public.

With that in mind, I want to return to the specific exchange that Sullivan had. In response to his question about whether Flynn’s behavior amounted not to treason, but to treasonous activity, Van Grack at first says they did not consider treason, but then corrected himself.

All of this seems to be consistent with Mueller reviewing Flynn’s actions, reviewing statute, finding that Flynn’s behavior did rise to the standards described in 18 USC 951 (with which Van Grack said he could have been charged), but did not rise to treason (as it clearly did not). Van Grack explained that “in terms of other offenses, they were not sort of in consideration in our interfacing with the defendant,” which seems to admit that Flynn could have been charged with other crimes, but was not, because he cooperated.

This walkback, I’m convinced, is as much for the benefit of the prosecutors, who gave Flynn an unbelievable sweetheart deal, as it was for the sake of judicial restraint. Mueller is forgiving Flynn working in the White House while continuing to hide that he had, during the campaign, secretly and knowingly worked for a foreign government, in consideration of his cooperation unveiling other activities.

But legal standards aside, Sullivan — one of the only people who has read a summary of what Flynn provided in his cooperation — still could not hide his disgust about the conduct he knows far more about than we do.

I remain frustrated that Sullivan raised treason at all yesterday, as I spend a great deal of time tamping down discussion of treason; none of the Trump flunkies’ actions that have been thus far revealed reach treason.

But I think I’m beginning to understand what a big deal it was for Flynn to continue to lie about his service for Turkey, even aside from the disgust I share with Sullivan that anyone would engage in such sleazy influence peddling while serving as a key foreign policy advisor for a guy running for President.

Flynn did a lot of really sleazy things. There was no discussion yesterday, for example, about how he gleefully worked on cashing in with nuclear deals even while Trump was being inaugurated. The public lacks both a full accounting of his sleazy actions and full understanding of their import for national security.

Mueller’s team thinks Flynn’s cooperation has been so valuable that it should wipe away most punishment for those sleazy actions. Emmet Sullivan, having read a great deal of secret information, is not so sure.



Election Day, 2016:
Mr. Gulen and his supporters deny that, and depict him as a moderate more concerned with building thousands of schools than with toppling Turkey’s government. Mr. Gulen was once an ally of Mr. Erdogan, but they had a falling out.....

...RT is a brand of "TV-Novosti", an "autonomous non-profit organization", founded by the Russian news agency, RIA Novosti, on 6 April 2005.[1][8] During the economic crisis in December 2008, the Russian government, headed by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, included ANO "TV-Novosti" on its list of core organizations of strategic importance of Russia.[9][10][11]

RT has been frequently described as a propaganda outlet for the Russian government[12] and its foreign policy.[13][14][15][16][17][18] RT has also been accused of spreading disinformation[18][19][20] by news reporters,[21][22] including some former RT reporters.[23][24][25] The United Kingdom media regulator, Ofcom, has repeatedly found RT to have breached its rules on impartiality and on one occasion found it had broadcast "materially misleading" content.[26][27][28][29] RT's editor-in-chief compared it with the Russian Army and Defence Ministry, and talked about it "waging the information war against the entire Western world."[30] In September 2017, RT America was ordered to register as a "foreign agent" with the United States Department of Justice under the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Under the act, RT will be required to disclose financial information.[31]...



Disclaimer: I prefer to err on the opposite side of what obviously benefits Putin and his poodles, Greenwald and... I read wikipedia "talk" pages because they display the competition of opinions and the quality of the support of the details that sustain in the actual wikipedia article.

If you perceive those politicians most pro-Putin are victims of American journalists reporting "fake news," possibly the core problem is not the reporting?

Tucker Carlson, John Solomon, Hannity sponsored Sara Carter, vs.....

It appears to me Rep. Gabbard was raised by a scoundrel.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mike_Gabbard
Talk:Mike Gabbard

....In a post-debate analysis, Maureen Linke and Eliza Collins at the Wall Street Journal found that hundreds of social media accounts with “bot-like traits” promoted information and content that sought to inflame racial divisions during the debates. They found that certain hashtags originated with conservative activists, but then it seemed like bots were helping to spread them.For example, on Tuesday, a user named Susannah Faulkner first shared the hashtag #DemDebateSoWhite, and then Ali Alexander, a Republican operative who sparked a racist birther-like campaign about Harris during the first round of debates, retweeted it. And on Wednesday, conservative commentator Terrence K. Williams started the #KamalaHarrisDestroyed hashtag after Harris’s onstage exchange with Gabbard.
In both instances, the Journal, citing data from analytics company Storyful, found that a high number of the accounts that interacted with and spread the tweets and hashtags had “bot-like characteristics.”...

May 19, 2019: Rep. Gabbard defends herself using a phrase made familiar by......despite having fifteen weeks to compose a defense without that phrase. :
[/quote]

I am tackling, in one post, the heaping helpin' "dumped" into this thread by Richard and Walt...


Huh..."Well said,  Jack   .... Is a heaping helpin?????     

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2019, 09:47:17 PM »

Online Tom Scully

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2019, 11:21:42 PM »
.......
He's open and honest about what he got into. But who did, or does he work for?

Ok so when this whole Russiagate stuff began I remember Papadopoulos described as a 'lower ranking member' of Trump's campaign. Trump called him 'Low Level'. “Few people knew the young, low level volunteer named George, who has already proven to be a liar,” from a tweet https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/925335577217683456

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/us/politics/trump-manafort-papadopoulos-mueller.html

From those Papadopoulos tweets you can see yourself there's no way this was some lower level member of the team, especially if you are one of the nations fighting for control of Cyprus' gas. This guy was potentially advising the next POTUS. Cyprus has massive significance for European energy independence. Plus all their shady stuff with passports and money laundering. Right now Europeans are hooked on Russian gas - a BIG security problem. Surely someone told Trump this? State dept briefing? Do candidates get briefings on these things? I presume Papadopoulos has no state dept or previous government links, and yet he could have been brokering some significant future energy decisions in a very tricky area of the world right now. BIG BIG national importance for a lot of people. Papadopoulos introduced Trump to the Egyptian leader just 2 months before the election. Trump may, or may not -- which would be pretty shocking -- but it appears Papadopoulos knew the significance of what is going on between Cyprus>Turkey>Israel>Egypt>Russia>USA (and throw into that group all the Europeans). This is kinda ridiculous that Trump walked into this mess. Massive stakes, and he seems clueless!

And then when you throw into the mix Gen. Flynn's link to the Turkish government, this is big time potential conflict of interests. Gen. Flynn is wide open to compromise and leverage as an undeclared foreign agent for Turkish interests, in such an important area dealing with Turkey/Russia/Cyprus/Israel/Egypt

To me, it makes sense why both Flynn and Papadouplos were being monitored by *lets say* the IC. Plural agencies 'spying' on them. *And I say that as someone who initially thought Trump was right, that he, and his team were spied on* But, Papadouplos & Flynn, they both have major conflicts of interests. Papadouplos' are unknown? he seems to have randomly got himself into a position where he might have been given a Trump government position -- but yet his background is unverifiable.Surely he had to be monitored, for his own safety! Flynn is extremely wreckless. The guy must have known more about what was going on right now with Cyprus and Turkey>Russia, it would be ridiculous, he, a former head of DIA never declared his interests -- kinda worrying that there are people like Flynn in governments exposing nations to blackmail based decisions.

It's going to be interesting to see if Bidens are tangled up in this Cyprus/Ukrainian corruption, as Papadouplos alleges. I think he might know the truth, more than many. Which might explain Obama wanting to cover Biden's ass. The Trump team conveniently gave Obama's government enough concerns to investigate Flynn and Papadouplos, plus Manafort. They made it easy to be framed with Russia through Papadouplos and Fynn's pretty serious compromising connections.

There was smoke. As I think Brennan or Clapper said, about Russia and Trump's campaign. But the fire might also be for Biden/Obama's crew!

The experiment of having 'outsiders', like Trump, in government, has failed. Having someone without experience, plus his crap advisors around him, it's got him sucked into making many poor decisions. Manafort, Wilbur Ross, and Papadouplos, Flynn, all tangled up in Cypriot shenanigans. Obama was definitely right when he advised Trump not to hire Flynn. Flynn is so reckless -- Obama probably meant 'for all our sakes' don't hire Flynn. Knowing Flynn's conflict of interests would eventually also shed light on the dodgy dealings of the Biden's and whatever happened on Obama's watch elsewhere.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/us/politics/hunter-biden-ukraine.html

Obama wont be endorsing Biden! guaranteed!

And I wont be type the name Papadopoulos for a while!

....continued reply to Robert Reeves, from my last post... Robert, I kind of misread your post, sorry. I saw so much "George P" and I think I misunderstood your core points....
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...And I wont be type the name Papadopoulos for a while!..
I hope I never have to type that name again. "George P." is fine. Why is it the Georges with last names like DeMohrenschildt?

Sam Clovis "ran" George P. during the campaign. He was a conservative IOWA radio talk show host and climate change denier.
a nice asset if you are trying to win the Iowa caucuses. Clovis was available because he initially supported Rick Perry, who fizzled out, early.
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https://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/former-trump-adviser-and-iowa-political-figure-sam-clovis-battling/article_839de09f-3976-5679-b7ec-e7ce7daa2b5e.html
Former Trump adviser and Iowa political figure Sam Clovis battling serious health issues
Bret Hayworth Jun 19, 2019

...The probe revealed Clovis had communicated with George Papadopoulos, a former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser who later pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his attempts to connect the campaign with Russian officials in 2016. As part of Mueller's investigation, Clovis testified before a grand jury.

Clovis retained prominent attorney Victoria Toensing amid the investigation. In a 2017 statement, Toensing said she (Clovis?) was "being polite" when encouraging Papadopoulos to meet with Russian officials, adding the campaign had a "strict rule that no person could travel abroad as a representative of the campaign." Clovis could not stop an American citizen from traveling abroad “in his personal capacity,” Toensing said....

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https://www.ontheissues.org/International/Sam_Clovis_Energy_+_Oil.htm
Obama's "Climate Resilience Fund" just redistributes wealth
President Obama is set to announce a new initiative called a "Climate Resilience Fund," estimated to cost American taxpayers $1 billion. "It seems the President is a little late in realizing that climate resilience ought to be a topic of interest for his administration. Communities across America struggle each day to build resilience. How cynical of the President to use 'Climate Change' as the impetus to redistribute more wealth," said Sam Clovis, conservative candidate for the US Senate.
"Serious research and hard work have gone into building resilience in communities around the country," continued Clovis. "The President's plan is nothing more than a grandstand play to take attention away from his failed administration. Of course, one has come to expect such deception and diversion from this administration. It is hard to believe that so many in whom we have entrusted our governance could be so truthfully challenged."

Source: CaffeinatedThoughts.com on 2014 Iowa Senate race , Feb 18, 2014
There is speculation this young George's behavior is intended to draw a presidential pardon, to ingratiate himself back into the Trump wing of the republican party by providing republican legislators and Atty General Barr with a narrative exonerating Russian meddling in the 2016 and in elections, going forward. I don't see Barr doing Putin's bidding as a prime objective, but I don't put it past republicans supporting Trump, Trump himself, or George P. Once you are compromised, you are intimidated into doing what you're instructed to do. Wealth and political influence seems to be what they all live to claw in more of.

The Russian "government," as recently and currently constituted, has been described as an organized criminal enterprise. Guliani appears to be fronting for a group with a primary goal of "mining" profits out of Ukraine, as Manafort and Gates were doing, and it centers around gas and oil, parallel to what Putin and Rex Tillerson were allied for a time, in doing.

Rick Perry was "wetting his beak," under the auspices of Trump-Guliani.

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https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/report-rick-perry-pushed-to-install-texas-political-donor-on-board-of-ukraine-gas-company
Report: Rick Perry pushed to install Texas political donor on ...
cbsaustin.com › news › nation-world › report-rick-perry-pushed-to-install-...
Oct 7, 2019 - 6, 2019, file photo, Energy Secretary Rick Perry speaks at the California GOP fall convention in Indian Wells, Calif. Perry pushed Ukraine's ...
Rick Perry's Focus on Gas Company Entangles Him in ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/us/politics/rick-perry-ukraine.html
Oct 7, 2019 - WASHINGTON — When Energy Secretary Rick Perry led an American ... Mr. Perry's focus during the trip on Ukraine's energy industry was in keeping .... Mr. Bleyzer, a Republican donor, has proposed gas deals with Naftogaz ...

From Rachel Maddow's new book:
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....Vladimir Putin presides over a metaphysical unforced error: the tragic scuppering of one of the potentially great nations in the world. Russia has been assiduously engineered into a sclerotic dictatorship; its economy wholly dependent on its one indispensable industry, which is by design almost solely monopolized by its big, lousy, noncompetitive state-controlled oil and gas companies, which are all run by spies or thugs or judo guys, and almost exclusively for the benefit of Vladimir Putin and his global aims. Their companies are not exactly soaring on the strength of their R&D prowess. And there’s a good reason for that. No one, in any major Russian enterprise, has been allowed to succeed or prosper legitimately and on his own terms. Anyone who rose to any station must owe that ascent to Putin, and answer to him for it. That has been doubly true in the energy sector, which has been Putin’s crucial lever of power. No one in that industry held on to money or power or property except with his say-so and on his ugly terms. If you were trying to become a clean businessman, running a capable and profitable energy company outside the control of the Kremlin, you were going to lose that business. Goodbye, Yukos. And maybe do a prison term. Hello, Mikhail Khodorkovsky. Alternatively, if you were a businessman or a crony who played along and served a useful purpose, you’d be rewarded with stolen goods. And you’d better stay loyal or you could do a prison term, too—look, you’ve got stolen goods! That’s how Russia’s premier natural gas company, Gazprom, earned its reputation as “the worst managed company on the planet.” And that’s how the most Putin-loyal yes-man in Russia, Igor Sechin, became one of the most powerful figures in Russia. And how his company, Rosneft, became the behemoth of the country’s oil industry—the Death Destroyer of Worlds, eating Yukos and Bashneft and any other cash-making morsels. It is not incidental that as an oil company Rosneft sucks. It wasn’t as if it got big and powerful by streamlining its supply chains and inventing stuff. Rosneft sucks all the time, but especially lately, when—because of sanctions against Russia for its terrible international behavior—it no longer has access to all that nifty Western Arctic- and shale-drilling technology it needs to reap that increasingly hard-to-get Russian oil. The country, meanwhile, has eroded into a stultifying economic sinkhole for average Russians. “Despite receiving $1.6 trillion from oil and gas exports from 2000 to 2011, Russia was not able to build a single multi-lane highway during this time. There is still no interstate highway linking Moscow to the Far East,” Karen Dawisha wrote in her richly detailed 2014 book, Putin’s Kleptocracy. “The inability of well-trained young graduates to succeed as entrepreneurs and innovators in Russia has stimulated emigration and plans to emigrate.” Dawisha went on to quote a pollster in Moscow on the plight of young Russians: “They have nowhere to go, nothing to do, and nothing to hope for.” “The lack of adequate medical care produces five times more deaths from cardiovascular disease among women in Russia than in Europe,” the professor wrote. “More Russian women die annually from domestic violence than the number of soldiers the USSR lost in the entire Afghan war. For Russian men, the situation is even grimmer. Poor workplace and road safety standards, plus high rates of suicide and homicide combine with the negative health effects of high alcohol consumption to make life especially precarious….According According to the World Health Organization, the life expectancy of a fifteen-year-old male is three years lower in Russia than in Haiti.” Let that sink in for a second: if you’re a fifteen-year-old boy, your life expectancy is three years longer if you are in Haiti than in Russia. Russia under Putin has become warped and stunted—a gigantic multi-continental country of 150 million souls, living on an economy considerably smaller than Italy’s, with male life expectancy so low that you might think the national pastime really was Russian roulette. This is a manifestation of a recognizable and widespread phenomenon—the Resource Curse—which has happened over and over again, with varying degrees of despair, from the Gulf of Guinea to the southern Great Plains. But Russia added a whole new twist to the Curse, a twist that helps explain the international order of things right now—or the lack thereof. When the Resource Curse takes hold in a country as big and influential and aggressive as twenty-first-century Russia, it turns out to be the entire world’s problem. What has happened to Russia is like when a faraway humanitarian concern morphs from a charity cause into an international terrorism threat. Russia’s Resource Curse has become a malignant tumor spreading through the rest of the world. Unlike Soviet-era Russia, which used its oil and gas to provide for its own energy needs and the needs of its worldwide communist satellites, modern petro-state Russia has to sell its fuel on the global market without the benefit of a separate Soviet checkout lane. Which went pretty okay for a while. As recently as the George W. Bush administration, there were those in the United States who thought that Putin might be the great hope for a new Middle East–free global energy supply line. But as Putin’s Russian Federation revealed itself to be a robustly corrupt, authoritarian regime happily committed to securing its own survival by force, it repeatedly and increasingly put itself into rogue state territory, and that ultimately screwed up its ability to play in the global markets as if it were some kind of normal country. Putin’s best-known exports list has lately comprised the most dreaded organized crime syndicates on earth, money laundering on such a massive industrial scale that it can bring down whole national cornerstone banks in any part of the globe, exotic assassinations, rogue-state-friendly weapons systems, illegal out-of-uniform military incursions, and the first seizure of another country’s territory in Europe since World War II. That sort of activity can get in the way of a country’s global business operations, on the odd chance that there’s anyone on the face of the globe who sees it as their responsibility to punish and isolate the kinds of international bad actors that invade their neighbors, shoot down civilian airliners, and send intelligence officers armed with nerve agent to assassinate their exiles in British cathedral towns. Russia’s way out of this existential conundrum has had two components: one business, one pleasure. The business part is tidy. With the broken-nosed, no-necked ex-spies perched atop the management structure of Rosneft and Gazprom, Russia’s not exactly running a world-class operation when it comes to the production of its one indispensable commodity. Russia’s economic future therefore depends on Putin making deals with major international oil and gas companies who can be counted on to understand his imperatives and to not care at all about ethics and governance governance and geopolitical consequences of their cozying up to the Kremlin. Those kinds of deals aren’t just beneficial to the Russian economy; they’re critical necessities for Putin’s one-track plan for twenty-first-century Russia. And it turns out that as long as Putin is honoring the “sanctity of contract” and implementing friendly tax laws, industry leaders from the West have shown little hesitation in making those deals. That’s the business part. The pleasure part is less tidy, but presumably way more fun for its practitioners: if the problem is that Russia’s behavior is too outré to be accepted in the global economy, then change the expectations for what counts as outré. Be the leveler. Corrupt other countries. Gain control over the former Soviet states in the near abroad by owning their politicians, by controlling the range of possibilities their people are allowed to choose for themselves. Ruin exemplars of governance and responsive democracy. Support separatism and the dissolution of bonds and treaties and Western norms wherever they’re vulnerable. Become internationally powerful through force (when you can muster it) or sabotage. Cheating is now Russia’s most viable avenue in world affairs. And you can mark the precise time when all other avenues were sealed off: the immediate aftermath of Putin’s shocking seizure of Crimea and his drive to forcibly annex much of resource-rich eastern Ukraine. Back in 2014, there was still enough U.S.-led traditional Western governance in the world to punish him with seriously harsh economic sanctions....

Maddow, Rachel. Blowout (p. 334). Crown/Archetype. Kindle Edition.

Why does Trump push so hard to reinsert Russia into the former G-8, when Russia has only the 20th largest economy, not the 8th, or even 10th largest? The common theme seems to be to erode the system of laws and eliminate all accountability, both the legal system and press freedom are now under sustained attack, in the U.S., and in the wider world. Trump-Putin push to expand the G-7 is a similar handicap to what we witnessed just last week with Turkey, a NATO "ally", Turkey's quasi-dictator is free to "punch up" but the other NATO allies cannot openly war with "allied" Turkey. Inviting Russia into an Trump pushed, expanded G-7 is all about withdrawing sanctions against Russia and its oligarchs. They retain Crimea and everyone continues to gnaw away at Ukraine and other former Soviet satellites.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 05:59:32 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Paul May

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2019, 05:10:09 AM »
Which party do you identify with @Paul? if you don't mind me asking. Is this just another Democrat party advertisement? It looks similar to the several posts, of late, we've seen here from Tom Scully dressed up as JFK research just to attack Trump. Tom's posts are always good, not complaining. But the agenda is obvious. Or maybe you're simply an R' 'NEVER TRUMPER'.

USA is in civil war. It seems to me to be, anyway. So I understand the anxiety American's are displaying. It's kinda funny, though, seeing American's attach blame, being so precise, having the answer to the current state of politics there. It's either 'Trump' or 'Hillary' or their supporters ... or Obama personally... or Brennan ... Comey ... Clapper ... CIA ... FBI ... Alex Jones ... Russiagate ... Ukrainians ... Bidens. It's just another election cycle -- more wacky accusations, more lies, more cover ups, more media lies, and now more accusations of whose supporter's conspiracy theories are wackiest? Which side of the political divide produces the most cranks? Be honest, there is a mesmerizing level of conspiracy theories swirling around on both sides. You are living in a clown show simulation. USA is at an all time low. A joke. And the same level of head[F]ckery going on there, could be argued is seen in the UK, at the moment. I think you are in denial if you actually think what's happened, of late, is simply all Trump's fault. The same blame game is leveled at Brexit.

I don't believe there is an exclusivity to any political side producing really out there crazies. I think every body, equally, is being screwed over, and played by an elite group of individuals with all the tools to make sure nothing ever comes to light of what really happens. The more I see the more I am convinced nothing is even real. Almost all of our political realities are fed to us by a completely insane group of people in the media that do not think twice about fabricating the truth to suit themselves, or their pay masters.

I have the solution to all this - Term limits.

Get rid of all these crazy politicians and start anew. The level of toxicity in politics is because the same faces, the same tactics, the same corruption, it ain't ever going away. Not unless the public are prevented from aiding this circular toxic cycle. Nothing will change It's hilarious when you think about it. Trying to level conspiracy theories as being consumed only by crazies, right now. There are some pretty legit serious questions needing answers re the integrity of our politicians and government agencies.

For instance, I seriously doubt it was ONLY Trump supporters wondering what the hell was going on with Jeffery Epstein. Pretty sure that one has crossed all political persuasions, races, sexes, status'.
I’m an independent.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2019, 05:10:09 AM »

 

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