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Author Topic: The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy  (Read 1843 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

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The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« on: October 06, 2019, 09:32:50 PM »
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For those who haven't read the post on the activities of Capt W R Westbook you might have a glance here..
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1022.msg22886.html#msg22886
Westbrook spun an unbelievable yarn to cover his true venture during the assassination.

Now turn attention to Reserve Sergeant Kenneth Hudson Croy.
Croy wasn't a full time cop. He was a jack of all trades if you read his testimony before the Warren Commission...
Real estate tycoon [that was his father's company]....owner of a gas station...had a steel business...and was a part time cowboy in the rodeo [in addition to being a part time cop] Concerning the weekend of the assassination..he was placed on duty that weekend, he was the first cop at the scene of the Tippit murder and 2 days later, practically rubbed shoulders with Jack Ruby just before Ruby shot Oswald. You would think to have heard Croy tell it...He decided when he was on duty or off duty. He told the Commission in testimony that he was off duty when he heard the police transmission that a policeman had been shot... That just doesn't sound realistic... ..But he placed himself back on duty and went to the Tippit shooting where attendants were loading Tippit into an ambulance.  After he left there, he placed himself back off duty. When Council Griffin begins his questioning of Croy...he takes the Oswald shooting time first and then goes backwards to the assassination...ODD?
Croy said that even though he was called to come to the city jail for the transfer of Oswald, he wasn't assigned a particular duty.
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. So you never had any particular station of duty there?
Mr. CROY. No. I wasn't just assigned a spot and told to stay there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did there come a time when you stationed yourself at the foot of the Main Street ramp in the basement?
Mr. CROY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About when was that? For how long before Oswald came out, would you estimate?
Mr. CROY. Well, I couldn't really estimate, because it has been almost 4 months ago and I don't really know how long it was.
Croy had the foggiest memory of all the Dallas cops we have read about. It seems that right after Oswald got shot, he relieved himself of duty.
About the Tippit shooting...
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do when you got there?
Mr. CROY. Got me a witness.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did you get ahold of?
Mr. CROY. It was a woman standing across the street from me. I don't recall her name. She gave me her name at that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did she tell you?
Mr. CROY. She told me that she saw Tippit get out of the car, and I don't recall, I think she said he stepped back a couple of foot and shot him and then ran. She was pretty hysterical at that particular time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she tell you where she first saw Oswald?
Mr. CROY. I don't recall whether she did or not. There was, as I recall, there was 2 people who saw it. No; 3. A man in a, taxicab driver. However, she was the main eyewitness, as far as I could make out. She saw the actual shooting.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you talk with her?
Mr. CROY. Oh, a good 5 or 10 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there any other officers there with you when you were talking with her?
Mr. CROY. Yes; and no.
Croy took down no names, took no notes, and did not file a report on the Tippit event.
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you file any report of your activities this day?
Mr. CROY. No
He said that after the assassination he left city hall [just like Westbrook] ...he considered himself off duty and had a lunch appointment with his wife but was stuck in downtown traffic for over 20 minutes.
He happened to be driving that way when Tippit was shot..
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk with the taxi driver?
Mr. CROY. Yes; I did. I talked to the taxi driver.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you talk with him on the scene of the crime?
Mr. CROY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember what his name was?
Mr. CROY. No; I didn't get his name.
Some cop! No wonder the DPD felt disgraced and embarrassed.
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what did the man who was walking, who saw Oswald walking up the street, tell you?
Mr. CROY. He just said he saw him walking up the street just prior to the shooting.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he say he saw him arrive at the car?
Mr. CROY. No; I turned him over to some other officers and they talked to him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you able to determine from them what direction he saw Oswald walking?
Mr. CROY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall this man's name?
Mr. CROY. No; I found the witness and took him to the other officers.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, after the Tippit--how long did you remain at the scene of the Tippit killing?
Mr. CROY. Oh, I would say a good 30 minutes. Thirty or forty minutes, something like that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then where did you go?
Mr. CROY. Home. I went to eat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it, at some restaurant or something?
Mr. CROY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you remain home the rest of the day?
Mr. CROY. Yes.
The most critical crime day in the history of Dallas and Sergeant Croy takes the afternoon off for some bar-b-que with his wife.
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. While you were at the scene of the Tippit killing, did you inquire there as to whether or not you could be of any assistance?
Mr. CROY. Well, when I left, I asked them if they thought they needed me any longer, and they said, "No," so I left.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, have you been interviewed by an FBI agent or any agent of the Federal Government with respect to what you have just told us here?
Mr. CROY. No.
Yes he was! https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10488&search=Kenneth_Hudson+Croy#relPageId=102&tab=page
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you have occasion to go to the theatre where Oswald was apprehended?
Mr. CROY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or go near there?
Mr. CROY. I went by it, yes; within a block of it on the way home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had Oswald been apprehended by the time you got there?
Mr. CROY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you know that?
Mr. CROY. They were on their way up there. There had been a report that he had gone into the Texas Theater.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you listening to your police radio?
Mr. CROY. Yes.
Mr Croy took a cruise by the Texas Theater [he said] while the theater was being rushed in pursuit of a notorious sneaker-in...
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. So you drove over there by the--near the theatre?
Mr. CROY. Well, I drove on up 10th Street. I believe it was 10th Street. On up to Zangs, and when I got to Zangs, took a left, and at the end of Zangs, at the corner of Zangs and Jefferson, it is just a block away, I could see them rushing out to the front and the back.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do as you saw them rushing out?
Mr. CROY. They had more help than they needed, so I went on.
Throughout his testimony...Croy stated he kept asking police officers [he never knew any of them] if they needed help and they would tell him "NO" like everything was in order.

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The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« on: October 06, 2019, 09:32:50 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2019, 09:52:05 PM »
For those who haven't read the post on the activities of Capt W R Westbook you might have a glance here..
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1022.msg22886.html#msg22886
Westbrook spun an unbelievable yarn to cover his true venture during the assassination.

Now turn attention to Reserve Sergeant Kenneth Hudson Croy.
Croy wasn't a full time cop. He was a jack of all trades if you read his testimony before the Warren Commission...
Real estate tycoon [that was his father's company]....owner of a gas station...had a steel business...and was a part time cowboy in the rodeo [in addition to being a part time cop] Concerning the weekend of the assassination..he was placed on duty that weekend, he was the first cop at the scene of the Tippit murder and 2 days later, practically rubbed shoulders with Jack Ruby just before Ruby shot Oswald. You would think to have heard Croy tell it...He decided when he was on duty or off duty. He told the Commission in testimony that he was off duty when he heard the police transmission that a policeman had been shot... That just doesn't sound realistic... ..But he placed himself back on duty and went to the Tippit shooting where attendants were loading Tippit into an ambulance.  After he left there, he placed himself back off duty. When Council Griffin begins his questioning of Croy...he takes the Oswald shooting time first and then goes backwards to the assassination...ODD?
Croy said that even though he was called to come to the city jail for the transfer of Oswald, he wasn't assigned a particular duty. Croy had the foggiest memory of all the Dallas cops we have read about. It seems that right after Oswald got shot, he relieved himself of duty.
About the Tippit shooting...  Croy took down no names, took no notes, and did not file a report on the Tippit event.He said that after the assassination he left city hall [just like Westbrook] ...he considered himself off duty and had a lunch appointment with his wife but was stuck in downtown traffic for over 20 minutes.
He happened to be driving that way when Tippit was shot..Some cop! No wonder the DPD felt disgraced and embarrassed.  The most critical crime day in the history of Dallas and Sergeant Croy takes the afternoon off for some bar-b-que with his wife.Yes he was! https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10488&search=Kenneth_Hudson+Croy#relPageId=102&tab=pageMr Croy took a cruise by the Texas Theater [he said] while the theater was being rushed in pursuit of a notorious sneaker-in... Throughout his testimony...Croy stated he kept asking police officers [he never knew any of them] if they needed help and they would tell him "NO" like everything was in order.

I have had a few coworkers that were so incompetent and had no desire to better themselves. They were just in the way of people who wanted to work and I  would prefer not having them around at all. It seems to me that he might have been one of those!

Offline Joe Mannix

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Re: The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2019, 11:05:46 PM »
Here's a well researched opinion:


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Re: The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2019, 11:05:46 PM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2019, 11:45:04 PM »
I have had a few coworkers that were so incompetent and had no desire to better themselves. 
Were they lawmen? That being stated...How did Croy ever manage to attain the rank of sergeant?
Quote
Mr. CROY. The only information I could get out of her [Markham] was the description of what Oswald had on, and him shooting him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did she tell you at that time that he had on?
Mr. CROY. I don't recall what he had on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did she tell you?
Mr. CROY. I don't recall what it was. She just gave a description there.


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2019, 04:40:35 AM »
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where do you live?
Mr. CROY. 1658 Glenfield. [Dallas]
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. Which way did you drive home?
Mr. CROY. Out Thornton to Colorado, and Colorado to--I can't think of the street. It was Marsalis.
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you proceed to your home from there?
Mr. CROY. Well, I didn't go home. I went to eat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you go to eat?
Mr. CROY. Austin Barbecue.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where is that located?
Mr. CROY. On the corner of Hampton and Illinois.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you get to Hampton and Illinois?
Mr. CROY. From Zangs to Illinois.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Thornton to Zangs?
Mr. CROY. Thornton to Colorado to Zangs
Whether or not Croy was going to his house or Austin's BBQ a couple of blocks away...He could not have picked a more round-about way to go.
It was a straight shot from town south on Thornton [I35E] freeway to Illinois....

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1658+Glenfield+Ave,+Dallas,+TX+75224/@32.7228868,-96.8379356,14.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x864e9a0f2776eeb5:0xd48cda1af552b71d!8m2!3d32.7183743!4d-96.848438?hl=en

The way he is describing took him right by Oswald's rooming house. Where N. Zang Blvd and Beckley split off.
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then out Zangs and in a westerly direction?
Mr. CROY. No. That is when I heard the call on Tippit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You were at the corner of Zangs and Colorado?
Mr. CROY. When the call came out on Tippit.
What was Croy doing there and why did he reveal this?

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Re: The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2019, 04:40:35 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2019, 11:17:56 AM »
Were they lawmen? That being stated...How did Croy ever manage to attain the rank of sergeant?

No, I have never worked in the law enforcement field. But people are people and I imagine that incompetent people sometimes manage to get hired into most all occupations.

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2019, 02:06:48 PM »


« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 05:07:47 PM by Gary Craig »

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Re: The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2019, 02:06:48 PM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The Convoluted Actions of Sgt Kenneth Croy
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2019, 06:57:19 PM »
Reserve Sergeant Croy's testimony was so perplexing that it is difficult to summarize his meandering tale in one post.
He was going to his house...no- going to meet his wife at a diner...no--now he changes his destination to going to his parents [address not requested or stated] to change clothes. It seems he so admitted..that he was staying with them after all.
Quote
Mr. GRIFFIN. You said you would be right there?
Mr. CROY. I was going to change my uniform and my clothes were over at my mother's and dad's.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So then as you drove out to change your clothes, what did you do? Did you hear something? How did you happen to get over to Tippit's place on the way home?
Mr. CROY. I was on the corner of Zangs and Colorado on my way to my mother's and dad's house at that particular time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why were you going to change your clothes at your mother's and dad's house? Did you live at your mother's and dad's house at that particular time?
Mr. CROY. Yes. I did for about that 2 weeks.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was your mother's and dad's house from the place that you had dinner?
Mr. CROY. It is quite a ways. It is about 3 or 4 miles.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you go from where you had your lunch or dinner to your mother's and dad's house?
Mr. CROY. Straight out north on Hampton.
"3 or 4 miles North on Hampton" puts us on the complete other side of Oak Cliff from the Zang/Beckley intersection.
Why not just go straight out on Commerce St/Ft Worth Ave?
 As a coincidence, Croy said he saw his wife 'downtown'. Why was she downtown? To see the president? Went shopping? Or-why didn't they just eat downtown while they were both there? Simpler. 
Mr. Croy never once mentioned the assassination of Pres Kennedy...No- not one single time in his testimony.