Tippit Shooting, 1:15

[Bill Brown]

Somebody said he knew he wasn't supposed to be carrying a gun

And WTF are you talking about, anyway?
Oswald said he was innocent. Case closed.

Correct.  The police are lying, not Oswald.   

Bill, when it's all said and done, these clowns here just can't accept the fact that the cop-killing Oswald got exactly what he deserved.

[John Mytton]

Do you have any proof that McDonald was lying?  Post it, please.

Ray Hawkins stated that the gun came out of Oswald's belt.

Thomas Hutson stated that Oswald moved his right hand to his waist, and that he saw a revolver come out.  Hutson also said that both of McDonald's hands were holding Oswald's right hand (which had the gun it).  Hutson stated that the gun was removed from Oswald's hand.

C.T. Walker stated that during the scuffle, Oswald's hand was down on the gun in his belt.

I'm sure you'll claim that McDonald, Hawkins, Hutson and Walker were lying or mistaken.

 

The eyewitnesses who identified Oswald and confirmed he was carrying a gun

Mr. BALL. And what did you see the man doing?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, first off she went to screaming before I had paid too much attention to him, and pointing at him, and he was, what I thought, was emptying the gun.
Mr. BALL. He had a gun in his hand?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. And how was he holding the gun?
Mr. CALLAWAY. We used to say in the Marine Corps in a raised pistol position.

Mr. BALL. What did you see him doing?
Mr. GUINYARD. He came through there running and knocking empty shells out of his pistol and he had it up just like this with his hand.
Mr. BALL. With which hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. With his right hand; just kicking them out.
Mr. BALL. He had it up?

Mr. B.M. PATTERSON, 4635 Hartford Street, Dallas, Texas, currently employed by Wyatt's Cafeteria, 2647 South Lancaster, Dallas, Texas, advised he was present at the used car lot of JOHNNY REYNOLDS' on the afternoon of November 22, 1963.

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. A minute or so later they observed a white male approximately 30 years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying what appeared to be a revolver in his hand and was obviously trying to reload same while running.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see this man's face that had the gun in his hand?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Very good.

HAROLD RUSSELL, employee, Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was standing on the lot of Reynolds Used Cars together with L.J. LEWIS and PAT PATTERSON, at which time they heard shots come from the vicinity of Patton and Tenth Street, and a few seconds later they observed a young white man running south on Patton Avenue carrying a pistol or revolver which the individual was attempting to either reload or place in his belt line.

Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you said you saw the man with the gun throw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you see the man empty his gun?
Mr. BENAVIDES - That is what he was doing. He took one out and threw it

Mr. BALL. Which way?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards Jefferson, right across that way.
Mr. DULLES. Did he have the pistol in his hand at this time?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had the gun when I saw him.

Mr. BELIN. Did he have anything in his hand?
Mr. SCOGGINS. He had a pistol in his left hand.

The Police Officers who were confronted with the murdering Oswald.

Mr. McDONALD - My left hand, at this point.
Mr. BALL - And had he withdrawn the pistol
Mr. McDONALD - He was drawing it as I put my hand.
Mr. BALL - From his waist?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. When you saw Oswald's hand by his belt, which hand did you see then?
Mr. WALKER. He had ahold of the handle of it.
Mr. BELIN. Handle of what?
Mr. WALKER. The revolver.
Mr. BELIN. Was there a revolver there?
Mr. WALKER. Yes; there was.

Mr. HUTSON. McDonald was at this time simultaneously trying to hold this person's right hand. Somehow this person moved his right hand to his waist, and I saw a revolver come out, and McDonald was holding on to it with his right hand, and this gun was waving up toward the back of the seat like this.

Oswald even admitted carrying his revolver.

Mr. STERN - Was he asked whether he was carrying a pistol at the time he was in the Texas Theatre?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - Yes; that was brought up. He admitted that he was carrying a pistol at the time he was arrested.


Mr. McCLOY. Was it a sharpshooter's or a marksman's? There are two different types, you know.
Mr. HOSTY. I believe it was a sharpshooter, sir. He then told Captain Fritz that he had been living at 1026 North Beckley, that is in Dallas, Tex., at 1026 North Beckley under the name O. H. Lee and not under his true name.
Oswald admitted that he was present in the Texas School Book Depository Building on the 22d of November 1963, where he had been employed since the 15th of October. Oswald told Captain Fritz that he was a laborer in this building and had access to the entire building. It had offices on the first and second floors with storage on third, fourth, fifth and sixth floors.
Oswald told Captain Fritz that he went to lunch at approximately noon on the 22d of November, ate his lunch in the lunchroom, and had gone and gotten a Coca Cola from the Coca Cola machine to have with his lunch. He claimed that he was in the lunchroom at the time President Kennedy passed the building.
He was asked why he left the School Book Depository that day, and he stated that in all the confusion he was certain that there would be no more work for the rest of the day, that everybody was too upset, there was too much confusion, so he just decided that there would be no work for the rest of the day and so he went home. He got on a bus and went home. He went to his residence on North Beckley, changed his clothes, and then went to a movie.
Captain Fritz asked him if he always carried a pistol when he went to the movie, and he said he carried it because he felt like it. He admitted that he did have a pistol on him at the time of his arrest, in this theatre, in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas. He further admitted that he had resisted arrest and had received a bump and a cut as a result of his resisting of arrest. He then denied that he had killed Officer Tippit or President Kennedy.


Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it.

JohnM

[Alan Hardaker]

No one can say that Oswald didn't combine walking, sprinting, jogging, or trotting
Bottom line is that Oswald was Johnny-on-the-spot

And this was the point I was trying to make.The timings from Oawald leaving the TSBD and being arrested are not clear. It only takes for a few minutes to accrue to afford Oswald the possibility of being at the Tippit murder scene. Then the eye witnesses come into play and despite all the claims of posters claiming Oswald is innocent, they are quite substantial. I haven't seen enough evidence in this thread to acquit Oswald. If I was on a jury I would need a lot more than has been presented here by his defenders.

I also feel the same way about the assassination.

[Tom Scully]

Bill, I am replying to you to alert readers our U.S. history is the color gray, not black or white.

....got exactly what he deserved.

But, when Ruby strolled into the basement of the DPD cop shop less than 48 hours later and shot down Oswald on live TV, the American people certainly did not what get what they deserved, and also certainly not when,

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paine_r2.htm

...Mr. JENNER - Was there a movement also in this connection which you are now describing of a pen pal communication between young people here in America and young people in Russia?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Did you have anything to do with that?
Mrs. PAINE - There was a subcommittee of this Young Friends Committee of North America which was called East-West Contact Committee.
Mr. JENNER - Were you the leader of that committee?
Mrs. PAINE - I was not. But I was chairman of a committee of that committee, which was called Correspondence, and I helped make contact between young people in this country who wished to write to someone in the Soviet Union, and an organization of young people in Moscow which found pen pals for these young Americans.
We particularly wanted to go through an official organization so as to be certain we were not endangering or putting suspicion upon anyone, any young person in the Soviet Union to whom we were writing. We felt if they picked their own people that would lessen the suspicion of the Soviet person.
Mr. JENNER - Were you active in that group?
Mrs. PAINE - I was chairman of that for sometime.
Mr. JENNER - Did you take part in the pen pal correspondence yourself?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; I did.
Mr. JENNER - And do you recall now the names of the Russian young people or Russian young person with whom you communicate, or sought communication?
Mrs. PAINE - I recall I wrote a few letters to a person named Ella, I have forgotten her last name, and I don't believe I have the correspondence still. If I did, I don't any more.....

...Mr. JENNER - Now all of your activity, this activity, of correspondence between you and any citizen in Russia, was part of it, originated in the Young Friends group, an activity to supply here a meeting with, communication by, Americans with citizens in Russia, and then latterly in your communication with the lady you have last mentioned, a mutual exchange between the two of you here to improve her English and you to improve your Russian?
Mrs. PAINE - That is right. The committee was formed much the same time that our State Department made arrangements with the Soviets for cultural exchange, and I think our Purposes were similar but, of course, outside the government.....

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paine_m1.htm
....
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know whether your wife engaged in a writing campaign or a pen pal campaign between people in the United States and people in the Soviet Union?
Mr. PAINE - That was another part of this East-West contacts committee's duties or tasks they took upon themselves and I think she was chairman, accepted the chairmanship of that committee.
For a while, it was almost moribund, very inactive.
Mr. DULLES - Which committee was that, the committee to stimulate letters between Russia and the United States?
Mr. PAINE - Yes; to find names and addresses on each side to connect people together.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you yourself ever take part in any activity of that group?
Mr. PAINE - No; I didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER - You spoke of the East-West contacts committee as being active in trying to bring a group of Russians to the United States. Did they engage in any activities other than this attempt to bring Russians to the United States that you know of?
Mr. PAINE - That is the only one I know of, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did they succeed in bringing some Russians to the United States?
Mr. PAINE - Yes; they did. They brought three Russians, and then the Russians reciprocated by taking a group of Quakers who knew Russian on a tour of Russia.
Mr. LIEBELER - Were you married to Ruth Hyde Paine at the time these Russian people came to the United States under the auspices of the East-West contacts committee?
Mr. PAINE - I might have been; I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know whether she actively participated in the program to bring the Russians to the United States?
Mr. PAINE - Well, she participated insofar as going to the meetings. I don't believe she did most of the writing to the State Department and what-not to try to arrange clearances and itineraries and things like that, but she was at the meetings at which those things were discussed.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did she ever discuss them with you in any detail?
Mr. PAINE - We, I would often--I went to several of those meetings myself.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know the names of any of the Russians who came to the United States in connection with this program?
Mr. PAINE - I might recognize them if I saw them again, but right now the names have escaped me.....



1932 Obit excerpt of Merrill's father"

https://www.nytimes.com/1974/12/02/archives/frederick-merrill-diplomat-69-dead.html
FREDERICK MERRILL, DIPLOMAT, 69, DEAD
December 2, 1974, Page 36

WASHINGTON, Dec. 1 —Frederick T. Merrill, who was the State Department's Director of East‐West Contacts from 1956 to 1960 and deputy chief of mission in Rumania from 1960 to 1962, died yesterday of a heart attack in Arlington, Va. He was 69 years old and had lived in Villierstown, County Waterford, Ireland, and Wainscott, L.I., since his retirement in 1965.

Mr. Merrill, who graduated from Phillips Academy, Andover, Mass, and Princeton University, held a master's degree from Columbia University. He had been a researcher for the Foreign Policy Association before joining the Foreign Service in 1940. He served in Algiers and Budapest among other posts, and had been acting United States representative on the United Nations Narcotics Commission.

http://newspaperarchive.com/us/illinois/sterling/sterling-daily-gazette/1951/05-01/page-9
"...while H James Rand of Cleveland, Ohio was best man."


1969:

[Martin Weidmann]

And this was the point I was trying to make.The timings from Oawald leaving the TSBD and being arrested are not clear. It only takes for a few minutes to accrue to afford Oswald the possibility of being at the Tippit murder scene. Then the eye witnesses come into play and despite all the claims of posters claiming Oswald is innocent, they are quite substantial. I haven't seen enough evidence in this thread to acquit Oswald. If I was on a jury I would need a lot more than has been presented here by his defenders.

I also feel the same way about the assassination.

I haven't seen enough evidence in this thread to acquit Oswald. If I was on a jury I would need a lot more than has been presented here by his defenders.

You seem to think that it is the task of a juror to assume somebody's guilty unless his innocence is proven. If that's the way you think it works, you should never serve on a jury and move to Salem as quickly as possible.

[Tom Scully]

And this was the point I was trying to make.The timings from Oawald leaving the TSBD and being arrested are not clear. It only takes for a few minutes to accrue to afford Oswald the possibility of being at the Tippit murder scene. Then the eye witnesses come into play and despite all the claims of posters claiming Oswald is innocent, they are quite substantial. I haven't seen enough evidence in this thread to acquit Oswald. If I was on a jury I would need a lot more than has been presented here by his defenders.

I also feel the same way about the assassination.

You seem to be assuming a "preponderance of the evidence," standard. This is not reasonable. Is there no penalty for failing to keep the accused alive while in custody? Should I infer nothing from that failure, aside from it preventing the ability to present an adequate defense, even if the defendant wanted to? Shouldn't that failure be prejudicial against the prosecution, in any way beneficial to the late accused?

Neither a defendant or a jury is under any obligation to establish innocence or to attempt or justify acquittal. There is no requirement of the defendant than to answer a criminal charge with a plea and submit to the authority of the court.... show up for court proceedings as ordered but the judge must instruct jury to make no inference of guilt or innocence if a defendant simply observes prosecutors present the state's arguments, witness testimony, and other evidence.

I have only purchased one firearm in my entire life, in 2017, but I have in my home because of that recent purchase, boxes of bullets, gun oil, gun cleaning kit, rifle clips, and various receipts for those purchases from six vendors other than the one from the original firearm purchase. I've yet to ever fire the thing, but it is oiled and loaded with a round in the chamber, next to my bed. Klein's sporting goods evidently did not include a "stripper" clip with the rifle purchase. I proved in 2015 that the postal money order is not suspect, except possibly its one day transit from mailing in Dallas to alleged receipt in Chicago by Klein's.
The revolver was a c.o.d. purchase and the government has provided no evidence of how the deliverer, Railway Express was paid or how or if Oswald was notified that it had arrived in Dallas.... to my understanding, there are only various CT speculative scenarios of how that revolver got from Seaport Traders into Oswald's hands.

The less available than usual "stripper" clip and cartridges found in the TSBD rifle and empty on the floor have never been sourced from a point of sale.
Not understanding where there was a reasonable explanation influencing removal of my reasonable doubt, Driver Whaley and Mrs. Roberts at the rooming house raised more doubts as to their reliability than they eliminated. Mrs. Roberts exhibited no realiable sense of time and her employer, Gladys Johnson described her as a teller of tall tales. Mrs. Roberts' sister Bertha testified of her own recent attempt to partner in an investment with Jack Ruby.

Even aside from the name "Drittal," which no one can retrieve as an actual example of a viable name despite modern resources like SSDI search, ancestry dot com, familysearch dot com, the closes match I could find happens to be the maiden name, "Drittel" of the wife of an NSA officer whose name was John B Hurt.






Hidell was the name of the secretary of the V.P. of the Confederate States of America. The nickname of that V.P, Hidell served under was "little Alec". Males of Oswald's family were named after Gen. Robert E. Lee.

Full text of "Alexander H Stephens" - Internet Archive
https://archive.org/stream/alexanderhstephe002607mbp/alexanderhstephe002607mbp_djvu.txt
Unofficially he had a secretary, a young man named William Hidell, whom he ...... in a carriage said: "Little Alec will surely die when this excitement is passed.

Family relationship of Lee Harvey Oswald and General Robert ...
https://famouskin.com › famous-kin-chart › kin=4640+robert+e+lee
Genealogy chart showing how Lee Harvey Oswald (Accused Assassin of President John F. Kennedy) is the 5th cousin 5 ... Lee Harvey Oswald Robert E. Lee ...

The Tomb Of Robert E. Lee Oswald, Father Of Lee Harvey ...
https://www.luckybeantours.com/the-tomb-of-robert-e-lee-oswald-father-of-lee-harvey-oswald/name=9730+lee+harvey+oswald&kin=4640+robert+e+lee&via=24867+john+carter
Jan 2, 2017 - It has been said that Oswald's troubles began two months before his birth in 1939, when his father, Robert E. Lee Oswald, died of a sudden ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt
...The prosecution in criminal matters typically bears the burden of proof and is required to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. This means that in order for a defendant to be found guilty the case presented by the prosecution must be enough to remove any reasonable doubt in the mind of the jury that the defendant is guilty of the crime with which they are charged. The term "reasonable doubt" can be criticised for having a circular definition. Therefore, jurisdictions reliant on this standard of proof often rely on additional or supplemental measures, such as specific jury directions, which simplify or qualify what is meant by a "reasonable doubt" (see below for examples). The principle for the requirement that a criminal case to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt (as opposed to on the balance of probabilities) can be traced to Blackstone's formulation that "t is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer", i.e. if there is any doubt that a person is guilty, it is better that they be acquitted than to risk an innocent person being convicted....

[Walt Cakebread]

The eyewitnesses who identified Oswald and confirmed he was carrying a gun

Mr. BALL. And what did you see the man doing?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, first off she went to screaming before I had paid too much attention to him, and pointing at him, and he was, what I thought, was emptying the gun.
Mr. BALL. He had a gun in his hand?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. And how was he holding the gun?
Mr. CALLAWAY. We used to say in the Marine Corps in a raised pistol position.

Mr. BALL. What did you see him doing?
Mr. GUINYARD. He came through there running and knocking empty shells out of his pistol and he had it up just like this with his hand.
Mr. BALL. With which hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. With his right hand; just kicking them out.
Mr. BALL. He had it up?

Mr. B.M. PATTERSON, 4635 Hartford Street, Dallas, Texas, currently employed by Wyatt's Cafeteria, 2647 South Lancaster, Dallas, Texas, advised he was present at the used car lot of JOHNNY REYNOLDS' on the afternoon of November 22, 1963.

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. A minute or so later they observed a white male approximately 30 years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying what appeared to be a revolver in his hand and was obviously trying to reload same while running.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see this man's face that had the gun in his hand?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Very good.

HAROLD RUSSELL, employee, Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was standing on the lot of Reynolds Used Cars together with L.J. LEWIS and PAT PATTERSON, at which time they heard shots come from the vicinity of Patton and Tenth Street, and a few seconds later they observed a young white man running south on Patton Avenue carrying a pistol or revolver which the individual was attempting to either reload or place in his belt line.

Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you said you saw the man with the gun throw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you see the man empty his gun?
Mr. BENAVIDES - That is what he was doing. He took one out and threw it

Mr. BALL. Which way?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards Jefferson, right across that way.
Mr. DULLES. Did he have the pistol in his hand at this time?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had the gun when I saw him.

Mr. BELIN. Did he have anything in his hand?
Mr. SCOGGINS. He had a pistol in his left hand.

The Police Officers who were confronted with the murdering Oswald.

Mr. McDONALD - My left hand, at this point.
Mr. BALL - And had he withdrawn the pistol
Mr. McDONALD - He was drawing it as I put my hand.
Mr. BALL - From his waist?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. When you saw Oswald's hand by his belt, which hand did you see then?
Mr. WALKER. He had ahold of the handle of it.
Mr. BELIN. Handle of what?
Mr. WALKER. The revolver.
Mr. BELIN. Was there a revolver there?
Mr. WALKER. Yes; there was.

Mr. HUTSON. McDonald was at this time simultaneously trying to hold this person's right hand. Somehow this person moved his right hand to his waist, and I saw a revolver come out, and McDonald was holding on to it with his right hand, and this gun was waving up toward the back of the seat like this.

Oswald even admitted carrying his revolver.

Mr. STERN - Was he asked whether he was carrying a pistol at the time he was in the Texas Theatre?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - Yes; that was brought up. He admitted that he was carrying a pistol at the time he was arrested.


Mr. McCLOY. Was it a sharpshooter's or a marksman's? There are two different types, you know.
Mr. HOSTY. I believe it was a sharpshooter, sir. He then told Captain Fritz that he had been living at 1026 North Beckley, that is in Dallas, Tex., at 1026 North Beckley under the name O. H. Lee and not under his true name.
Oswald admitted that he was present in the Texas School Book Depository Building on the 22d of November 1963, where he had been employed since the 15th of October. Oswald told Captain Fritz that he was a laborer in this building and had access to the entire building. It had offices on the first and second floors with storage on third, fourth, fifth and sixth floors.
Oswald told Captain Fritz that he went to lunch at approximately noon on the 22d of November, ate his lunch in the lunchroom, and had gone and gotten a Coca Cola from the Coca Cola machine to have with his lunch. He claimed that he was in the lunchroom at the time President Kennedy passed the building.
He was asked why he left the School Book Depository that day, and he stated that in all the confusion he was certain that there would be no more work for the rest of the day, that everybody was too upset, there was too much confusion, so he just decided that there would be no work for the rest of the day and so he went home. He got on a bus and went home. He went to his residence on North Beckley, changed his clothes, and then went to a movie.
Captain Fritz asked him if he always carried a pistol when he went to the movie, and he said he carried it because he felt like it. He admitted that he did have a pistol on him at the time of his arrest, in this theatre, in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas. He further admitted that he had resisted arrest and had received a bump and a cut as a result of his resisting of arrest. He then denied that he had killed Officer Tippit or President Kennedy.


Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it.

JohnM

Mr Mytton....You omitted the important pat of Dom Benavides testimony....

Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you said you saw the man with the gun throw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you see the man empty his gun?
Mr. BENAVIDES - That is what he was doing. He took one out and threw it

Mr. BENAVIDES - Then I seen the man turn and walk back to the sidewalk and go on the sidewalk and he walked maybe 5 foot and then kind of stalled. He didn't exactly stop. And he threw one shell and must have took five or six more steps and threw the other shell up, and then he kind of stepped up to a pretty good trot going around the corner.

It should be perfectly clear that the man did NOT unload his revolver in the manner a Smith & Wesson revolver is unloaded....  He unloaded the spent shells  ONE- AT - A- TIME .......Whereas the S&W is unloaded by pushing the ejector rod and emptying all shells at once.

[Walt Cakebread]

I haven't seen enough evidence in this thread to acquit Oswald. If I was on a jury I would need a lot more than has been presented here by his defenders.

You seem to think that it is the task of a juror to assume somebody guilty unless his innocence is proven. It that's the way you think it works, you should never serve on a jury and move to Salem as quickly as possible.

LOL!.......  Mr Hardaker would probably feel at home in North Korea.    A place where if the government says that you've committed a crime ....Then you are guilty and must prove that you are not ( an impossible task)