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Author Topic: Tippit Shooting, 1:15  (Read 84178 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #552 on: November 20, 2019, 04:04:33 PM »
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The Dallas police deliberately manipulated witnesses with biased and unfair lineups.

No, an unfair lineup is 1 man holding a rifle with a sign saying "I did it" but the Dallas line-ups were anything but.
Anyway, I know I could in no way say a man was guilty if he was not, but if you reckon that your fellow Americans were so stupid to blindly send a Man to the Electric chair because they were mindlessly manipulated then it's no wonder your country is such a mess.

JohnM

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #552 on: November 20, 2019, 04:04:33 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #553 on: November 20, 2019, 04:09:31 PM »
No, an unfair lineup is 1 man holding a rifle with a sign saying "I did it" but the Dallas line-ups were anything but.

False dilemma fallacy.  Both things are unfair lineups.

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Anyway, I know I could in no way say a man was guilty if he was not,

Bully for you.  But you've shown in abundance how easily you are manipulated by police and prosecutor rhetoric.

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #554 on: November 20, 2019, 04:09:44 PM »
.....

Yes, I am aware of all of that. But actually the Victory model was a .38 special when manufactured. This particular gun was re-chambered by Seaport Traders, Inc to the slightly larger diameter size. Here is the mail coupon (CE 135):



 Notice the price of this gun versus the S&W 38 special that is four line items above it. LHO apparently ordered it because it had a lower price. This is consistent with the rifle, which also was priced lower than most.

There has been speculation those described as listening in to the Saturday night operator at the Dallas city hall assisting Oswald, triggered his shooting death ASAP, once the details of that phone surveillance and the name "John Hurt" reached those in DC in a position to understand Oswald was sending a veiled message to the PTB via the rudimentary means he was reduced to use to communicate with the outside world, given his circumstance on November 23.... IOW, he did not want anyone else to send a wink to the PTB on his behalf and he did not want to play the only card he had, the name "John Hurt" in public, under the glare of cameras and microphones of the representatives of the press he had brief access to.

If he was a patsy, it certainly could have taken him 24 to 39 hours to figure it all out and decide what he had to work with to try to give those who had set him up, second thoughts about following through with burning him.....or not?

In this particular combination of DeMohrenschildt-Oswald background details, Oswald would not be actually attempting to speak directly to John Hurt, merely to alert the right people to some knowledge he had come by, especially if he was the individual who had actually written the unusual name, "Drittal" on the Seaport Traders order form for the revolver purchase.

Coincidentally, Oswald has been linked to the names "Drittal" and John Hurt. What are the odds of that name combination
being inconsequential, random, vs what can actually be found and presented here?

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https://www.nsa.gov/Portals/70/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologic-spectrum/frank_rowlett.pdf
The Signal Intelligence Service about 1935.
Seated: Mrs. Louise Newkirk Nelson. Standing, left to right: Herrick F. Bearce; Solomon Kullback; Captain
Harold G. Miller, USA; William F. Friedman; Abraham Sinkov; Lieutenant L. T. Jones, USCG; Frank B.
Rowlett. John B. Hurt was ill when the picture was taken.

Good thing nobody reads my posts....

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https://oztypewriter.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-crypto-underwood-typewriter.html

...This 1924 Underwood typewriter connection between Safford and Joerissen has lead to conspiracy theories which reach all the way to Lee Harvey Oswald and the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy. I'm not going to go into that here - it's far too involved - but if anyone is interested in reading further on these theories, simply key in "safford+joerissen" in a Google search. In part, the links relate to the still unsolved shooting death of Joerissen's stepson, Chicago art dealer Paul Lamar Joachim (born Washington DC, 1912), a retired US Navy Rear Admiral, on October 22, 1962, exactly 13 months before Kennedy was killed. ...

........
...US Navy veteran, Bush, who was also a longtime acquaintance of George DeMohrenschildt, who happened to be close enough to US Navy Admiral, Chester Bruton, to bring Oswald's family to Adm. Bruton's Dallas home to use his swimming pool....

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https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=84&relPageId=66&search=joachim_and%20june
2. HSCA Report, Volume XII, pg 62
Found in: HSCA Appendix Volumes
Joachim told the FBI that he was employed at the time in the Navy building. (209) The other occu- pants of the house were Lt. Cdr.
Navy, and Quinton Quines, who Joachim said worked at the British Em- bassy.(210) Joachim said de Mohrenschildt lived at the house during the end of May
and all of June 1942.
(211) He said de Mohrenschildt never made any statements about feelings toward any country, and no statements which were pro-Nazi
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=146006&relPageId=5&search=joachim_and%20quines


Just one month after this was published, George DeM. just happened to arrive as a roomer in the DC family home inherited by
then Navy Lieut. Paul Joachim.":


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http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/17411-discussing-the-mindset-of-conspiracy-theorists/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-220299

Guest Tom Scully  - Posted February 26, 2011 (edited)
I'm posting this here, for the first time, anywhere, as a symbolic, thumb in the eye, of those hobbled by an inability to do anything other than read and parrot official line. The "line" is officially intended to keep any of us from going to places like this, ever! :.....
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....Betrayal at Pearl Harbor: how Churchill lured Roosevelt into World ...

James Rusbridger, Eric Nave - 1991 - 302 pages - Snippet view

... was that they only had two radio operators capable of receiving and transcribing kana texts from Morse code transmissions. Safford solved this by designing a typewriter which he called a special code machine.33 On 26 November 1924, he sent details to John T. Underwood of the Underwood Typewriter Company, who examined Safford's specifications with his chief designer, Charles A. Joerissen. Two weeks later, on 10 December, they offered to build Safford four such machines for $645. The makers called them the Underwood Code Machine,....
....

Is Oswald not credited with a Saturday evening attempt to place a phone call from the Dallas jail to a John Hurt? Is not
this NSA John Hurt the spouse of a musician named Anna Drittel, sometimes spelled Drittal? Has anyone ever been acquainted with a "Drittal," or seen this or a similarly spelled surname anywhere else than on this Seaport Traders order form?

Is it merely coincidence DeMohrenschildt roomed for five weeks in May-June 1942 in the Washington DC home of future Admiral
Paul Joachim, murdered in October, 1962, still unsolved murder, or that Joachim's step-father built the decoding machine permitting rapid decoding of Japanese diplomatic code in Friedman's pre-WWII NSA "shop" and that McCloy was read in, daily, to the results of the work aka "Purple" of John B. Hurt and Friedman?

Just askin'.....

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https://www.nytimes.com/1966/08/09/archives/john-b-hurt-retired-aide-of-national-security-unit.html

John B. Hurt, Retired Aide Of National Security Unit

- New York Times - Aug 9, 1966

Mr. Hurt is survived by his widow, Mrs. Ana Dritell Burt, a Russian-born cellist; his mother, Mrs. Anna Hurt of Wytheville, Va.; two sisters and three ...



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https://www.roanoke.com/news/wytheville-linguist-s-world-war-ii-role-is-finally-revealed/article_6ac4ca11-0160-5d94-a5f3-e1afbf7e1ecc.html
Wytheville linguist's World War II role is finally revealed
Paul Dellinger Sep 3, 2005

WYTHEVILLE -- John Hurt was pretty sure a Japanese attack was coming. But he and others at work trying to break Japanese message codes in the days before World War II did not know the target.

Hurt, who grew up in Wytheville, wrote in private recollections declassified in 1983 that they thought it would be at Manila.

Few people knew much about Hurt's wartime work that, though far from the lines of combat, was crucial to the Allied effort. Like others in his agency, Hurt suffered immense stress and even a mental breakdown from the vast amount of secret work he was processing.....


Harrod George Miller and William Friedman, circa mid 1930's


« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 05:17:02 PM by Tom Scully »

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #554 on: November 20, 2019, 04:09:44 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #555 on: November 20, 2019, 04:29:20 PM »
The revolver in the vIdeo is NOT  The old .38 caliber Victory model, that used the older and less powerful .38 cailber bullet.   The S&W revolver being discussed is the  old WW1 model.     That old S&W used a larger diameter but shorter length cartridge.   The dimensions shown in the top row are....

Projectile diameter---- .359"     Neck diameter--- .386"   Base diameter---.386"   Rim diameter---  .433"    Case length---  0.78"   Cartridge length--- 1.20"

The dimensions for the new S&W Special cartridge are .......
Projectile diameter---- .357"     Neck diameter--- .379"   Base diameter---.379"   Rim diameter---  .440"    Case length---  1.155"  Cartridge length--- 1.98"

It's obvious that the old "Victory" model would require chamber modification to allow the longer "Special" cartridge to be used in the old gun.   However the chamber bore (.388")was actually too large for the smaller diameter ( .379") Special cartridge cartridge.   This oversize chamber caused the powerful Special cartridge to balloon ( and often split) which made the removal of the spent shells difficult.   Just as Cunningham pointed out when he demonstrated the removal of the spent cartridges for the S&W Victory revolver in evidence.

So in summary....The spent shells are al removed at the same time from the S&W revolver....     But the witnesses said that Tippit's killer walked away while removing ONE- SHELL - AT - A - TIME.   And the spent shells were found widely scattered  which verifies the witnesses observations.   

The killer was NOT using a Smith & Wesson revolver.......

I would like to know if other old revolvers could be modified to use the S&W Special cartridge......For example could an old .38 caliber Colt be modified to use the 38 Special cartridge?  Perhaps some reader has this information and could post it.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #556 on: November 20, 2019, 05:01:13 PM »
False dilemma fallacy.  Both things are unfair lineups.

Bully for you.  But you've shown in abundance how easily you are manipulated by police and prosecutor rhetoric.

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False dilemma fallacy.  Both things are unfair lineups.

This is a go nowhere argument, it's easy from the defence's perspective to flippantly say that there will never ever ever be a fair lineup because in reality there will always be another endless reason why the current lineups were unfair for example, there should be more people in the lineup, the light was different, the distance was different, their skin colours must be closer, the hair colour and hairline must be the same, they weren't the same shape, their nationalities and race didn't go back to their grandparents etc etc... So it's good and all that you believe that you can get all the positive identifications thrown out on some form of technicality by screaming "unfair" unfair" but that's not how it works, you have to deal with the eyewitnesses like Callaway the ex-marine who saw Oswald with a weapon and didn't look like he could be intimidated.



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Bully for you.

It's not only me John, I know no one in my family would ever send a man wrongfully to his death and I'm betting that you and your family couldn't either.

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But you've shown in abundance how easily you are manipulated by police and prosecutor rhetoric.

When you show the Police did something major to deliberately penalise Oswald then they may be a problem but considering that Oswald killed one of their own and was found with the weapon, then on the whole the Dallas Police were quite restrained because I know if someone killed my friend I would have trouble holding back.



JohnM
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 05:15:29 PM by John Mytton »

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #556 on: November 20, 2019, 05:01:13 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #557 on: November 20, 2019, 05:21:34 PM »
This is a go nowhere argument, it's easy from the defence's perspective to flippantly say that there will never ever ever be a fair lineup because in reality there will always be another endless reason why the current lineups were unfair for example, there should be more people in the lineup, the light was different, the distance was different, their skin colours must be closer, the hair colour and hairline must be the same, they weren't the same shape, their nationalities and race didn't go back to their grandparents etc etc... So it's good and all that you believe that you can get all the positive identifications thrown out on some form of technicality by screaming "unfair" unfair" but that's not very realistic, Callaway the ex-marine who saw Oswald with a weapon didn't look like he could be intimidated.

It's not only me John, I know no one in my family would ever send a man wrongfully to his death and I'm betting that you and your family couldn't either.

When you show the Police did something major to deliberately penalise Oswald then they may be a problem but considering that Oswald killed one of their own and was found with the weapon, then on the whole the Dallas Police were quite restrained because I know if someone killed my friend I would have trouble holding back.



JohnM

When you show the Police did something major to deliberately penalise Oswald then they may be a problem but considering that Oswald killed one of their own and was found with the weapon,

"When you show the Police did something major to deliberately penalise Oswald"  
 Sir, You will need to extract your head....and that should enable you to see that the police railroaded Lee Oswald....   One of the major lies that they spread was that they had found the arch villain's ( Lee Oswald ) prints on the rifle. Henry Wade told reporters " Oh, By the way,....Did I mention that we have found his prints on the gun.?"     When in FACT no identifiable prints had been found on the gun.

The police also used rigged Line ups to railroad their patsy.....

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #558 on: November 20, 2019, 05:56:36 PM »
You don't know what gun killed Tippit.

But I'm curious.  What is your source for the claim that Seaport Traders did the rechambering of CE 143?

I am searching for the source. If I find it I will post it.

The point I was making was to dispute Walt's apparent miss-association of the "Victory" model name exclusively with the .38 S&W caliber. This is what wikipedia has to say:

The Victory Model was used by United States forces during World War II, being chambered in the well-known and popular .38 Special cartridge. The Victory Model was a standard-issue sidearm for United States Navy and Marine Corps aircrews, and was also used by security guards at factories and defense installations throughout the United States during the war.

The S&W M&P military revolvers produced from 1942 to 1944 had serial numbers with a "V" prefix, and were known as the Smith & Wesson Victory Model. It is noteworthy that early Victory Models did not always have the V prefix. During World War II over 570,000 of these pistols were supplied to the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa under the Lend-Lease program, chambered in the British .38/200 caliber already in use in the Enfield No 2 Mk I Revolver and the Webley Mk IV Revolver. Most Victory Models sent to Britain were fitted with 4-inch or 5-inch barrels, although a few early versions had 6-inch barrels.

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #558 on: November 20, 2019, 05:56:36 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #559 on: November 20, 2019, 05:57:45 PM »
This is a go nowhere argument, it's easy from the defence's perspective to flippantly say that there will never ever ever be a fair lineup because in reality there will always be another endless reason why the current lineups were unfair for example, there should be more people in the lineup, the light was different, the distance was different, their skin colours must be closer, the hair colour and hairline must be the same, they weren't the same shape, their nationalities and race didn't go back to their grandparents etc etc...

Strawman fallacy.  I didn't say there will never ever ever be a fair lineup.  These lineups were biased and unfair.

- Fillers should generally resemble each other and the suspect
- Fillers and the suspect should be dressed alike
- Fillers should resemble the witness's pre-lineup description of the suspect
- There should be a minimum of 5 fillers
- The person administering the lineup should not know who the suspect is
- If the suspect has an unusual or unique feature that would make him stand out then it should be concealed, or the fillers should have the same thing artificially added
- Witnesses should not attend lineups together
- The witness should not be visible to the suspect or fillers
- The suspect's position in each lineup should be randomly placed
- Witnesses should be told that the suspect may or may not be in the lineup
- Witnesses should be asked how certain they are of the identification
- Witnesses should not have been biased by media reports prior to the lineup
- Witnesses shouldn't be pressured to make a selection

https://www.ncjrs.gov/nij/eyewitness/eyewitness_id.html

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So it's good and all that you believe that you can get all the positive identifications thrown out on some form of technicality by screaming "unfair" unfair" but that's not how it works, you have to deal with the eyewitnesses like Callaway the ex-marine who saw Oswald with a weapon and didn't look like he could be intimidated.

"Didn't look like he could be intimidated".  There's a scientific analysis for you.   :D

But what does being intimidated have to do with anything?

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It's not only me John, I know no one in my family would ever send a man wrongfully to his death and I'm betting that you and your family couldn't either.

Who ever said that anyone was wanting to "send a man wrongfully to his death"?

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When you show the Police did something major to deliberately penalise Oswald

"Major" as defined as something other than what the police actually did.

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then they may be a problem but considering that Oswald killed one of their own

Considering?  Wasn't that what they were supposedly trying to investigate with these rigged lineups?

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and was found with the weapon,

LOL

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then on the whole the Dallas Police were quite restrained because I know if someone killed my friend I would have trouble holding back.

Exactly.  They railroaded him, because they decided first that he killed a cop, and then rigged lineups to give them the answer that they wanted.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 05:59:37 PM by John Iacoletti »