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Author Topic: Tippit Shooting, 1:15  (Read 84217 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #136 on: October 22, 2019, 01:00:51 PM »
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Has anyone ever considered that Oswald might have been on his way to finish off Walker - hence 'grabbing the pistol', the direction he 'supposedly' headed?

(100% speculation!)

Yes, I speculate that he was originally heading to Davis Street then was planning to turn west toward the Love Field bus route stop at Davis and Westmount Avenue (total of three miles from the rooming house). I suspect when Tippit saw him, and started following him, that he made a evasive turn or two to see if he was indeed being followed. And ended up going east on Tenth Street. I think that there is a good possibility that he could have been thinking of a hi jack to Cuba. Or, as you speculate, heading to Walker’s house. I don’t think that he was just aimlessly wandering around.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 03:29:12 PM by Charles Collins »

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #136 on: October 22, 2019, 01:00:51 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #137 on: October 22, 2019, 01:14:23 PM »

I have tried this serveral times in the past, but so far no LNr has even tried to come up with a plausible scenario for Markham still being at 10th/Patton at 1:14 or 1:15 when she testified she left home "a little after 1" and the one block walk from her home on 9th street to the corner of 10th street and Patton would have taken her only 2, perhaps 3 minutes. Markham estimated in her testimony that she took the 1.15 bus to work every day. And before you go there, yes I know that according to the bus schedule (which btw nobody has ever been able to show me) there was a bus at 1.12 and one at 1.22. It actually doesn't matter which bus Markham was talking about, because a walk of two blocks to the bus stop would have taken her no more than 6 minutes. So, if she left home "a little after 1" she would have easily been at the bus stop at around 1.15 and thus not at 10th/Patton. In other words, Tippit must have been shot earlier than 1.15, most likely around 1.06, because otherwise Markham could not have witnessed it.

The same thing goes for Bowley. He arrived after Tippit was killed. In his affidavit he said he picked up his daughter at R.L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at "about 12:55". School bells, in my experience, have a tendency to ring at the correct time every day! Now, let's also not forget that, after picking up his daughter, Bowley was also going to pick up his wife from work, to go on a family holiday and thus had every reason to be on time and be aware of the time! The drive from the school to 10th/Patton is about 7 miles long and takes roughly 13 minutes, depending on the route, making it absolutely possible and plausible for him to arrive at 10th street at 1.10 pm, like he said he did in his affidavit.

But even if we are kind to the LNs and accept that Bowley didn't pick up his daughter on time (leaving her waiting for 5 minutes or longer) and did not leave the school until 1 PM, he still would have arrived at 10th/Patton at 1:13, which of course would have been prior to the shooting of Tippit at 1:15, as the WC narrative claims.

These two timelines alone justify, IMO, the conclusion that Tippit was in fact shot before 1:10 pm, which makes it nearly impossible for Oswald to have been there. But perhaps the LNs can provide a plausible scenario for these two timelines to be wrong...? I'll wait and see, but I won't hold my breath.



So you either believe that Tippit's body was lying in the street for almost ten minutes before someone attempted to report it over the police radio... or you believe the police tapes have been fudged.  Which do you believe?


Tippit's body was removed from the scene just after Bowley arrived at 1:10 and he was declared DOA at the hospital at 1:15.

There are no police tapes. All there are, are transcripts of recordings made with voice activated devices, making it impossible to verify actual times.


So it's now possible that Helen Markham left her house well past 1:00 and as a result, it's now possible that Markham was at Tenth and Patton well past 1:06.

Got it.

Yes, people do not get everything 100% right all the time. It is also possible that Markham got the time (1:15) wrong for catching the 1:12 bus!

What is beyond dispute however is that Markham saw Tippit being shot prior to Bowley's arrival at 1:10, shortly after which Bowley saw Tippit's body loaded in to an ambulance which took him to the hospital where he was declared DOA at 1:15, in the presence - according to their report - by DPD officers Davenport and Bardin.

For Markham to be wrong about the time she left home, Bowley also needs to be wrong about his time of arrival (which implicitely means he left his daughter waiting for him after school) and the hospital also must have gotten the time of the DOA wrong.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 04:33:42 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #138 on: October 22, 2019, 04:16:59 PM »
Can you post this please?

Correction:  autopsy permit



Also, this has obviously been altered:




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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #138 on: October 22, 2019, 04:16:59 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #139 on: October 22, 2019, 04:20:09 PM »
Please explain the problem with the chain of custody of the two Davis shells.

My post that you responded to said nothing about the chain of custody of the two Davis shells.

But I have a question for you.  What evidence do you have that the shells known as "the two Davis shells" were ever at the crime scene?

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #140 on: October 22, 2019, 04:22:03 PM »
Markham saw the shooting.

Scoggins and the two Davis girls saw the same man seen by Markham.

Callaway and Guinyard saw the same man seen by Scoggins and the two Davis girls.

Reynolds, Patterson and Russell saw the same man seen by Callaway and Guinyard.

Therefore, witnesses "a block away from the crime scene" saw the killer.

Your assumption that they all saw the same man is unwarranted.

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #140 on: October 22, 2019, 04:22:03 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #141 on: October 22, 2019, 04:27:08 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #142 on: October 22, 2019, 04:49:31 PM »
Tippit's body was removed from the scene just after Bowley arrived at 1:10 and he was declared DOA at the hospital at 1:15.

There are no police tapes. All there are, are transcripts of recordings made with voice activated devices, making it impossible to verify actual times.

Yes, people do not get everything 100% right all the time. It is also possible that Markham got the time (1:15) wrong for catching the 1:12 bus!

What is beyond dispute however is that Markham saw Tippit being shot prior to Bowley's arrival at 1:10, shortly after which Bowley saw Tippit's body loaded in to an ambulance which took him to the hospital where he was declared DOA at 1:15, in the presence - according to their report - by DPD officers Davenport and Bardin.

For Markham to be wrong about the time she left home, Bowley also needs to be wrong about his time of arrival (which implicitely means he left his daughter waiting for him after school) and the hospital also must have gotten the time of the DOA wrong.

Tippit's body was removed from the scene just after Bowley arrived at 1:10 and he was declared DOA at the hospital at 1:15.

This is interesting Martin...  We know that TF Bowley arrived at 1:10 ( and there's no good reason to doubt that the time is reasonably accurate) And I believe he took a quick look at Tippit who was lying on the street, and then went to use Tippit's radio.  That time could have been anywhere between 1:10 and 1:12...

You say that Tippit's body was removed just after Bowley arrived ....  Is there verification for the time that the ambulance picked up Tippit's body?   It's difficult to believe that the ambulance could have arrived at the hospital at 1:15.   I wonder if the DOA of 1:15 was just a guess ....  Perhaps the ambulance attendants told the doctor that Tippit was dead when they picked him up.

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #142 on: October 22, 2019, 04:49:31 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #143 on: October 22, 2019, 07:54:47 PM »


See, this is what is confusing to me, is the phrase "AT 1:15pm, pronounced dead" which logically one would read as meaning that the clock time was 1:15pm when Oswald was pronounced DOA.

That means the ambulance must have arrived at 10th and Patton about 3 minutes approx earlier at about 1:12pm which is just about right after Bowley makes a call about 1:10, which somehow gets recorded in the DPD dispatch record as 1:16pm

I maybe mistaken, but I think I remember Bill Brown having a thread many years back, in which Bill suggested the 1:15pm time was the physicians ESTIMATE of the time of death made, and that the actual time of arrival of the ambulance to the hospital emergency room was 1:18pm based on some other record
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 07:58:08 PM by Zeon Mason »